2018 NCAA Tournament

[4samuy]

Last year Augie made it to the final game without playing a home game in the tournament.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.

Reread my stuff... I talk about the top five - that is the upper echelon... and my thoughts on Top 5. The convo started on IIAC being ranked by the computers number two. My point was to say, no... they aren't in the upper echelon, but they are certainly in the convo for top ten.

I don't disagree with you... and I never said the SUNYAC was in my top five nor the upper echelon.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Last year Augie made it to the final game without playing a home game in the tournament.

Last year was ridiculous also considering Augustana lost four of their last five and five of their last nine games prior to the NCAA tournament.

[Gregory Sager]

My thinking in the NJAC is the same as the SUNYAC... it isn't necessarily about the NCAA tournament. Yes. Struggled to get out of the first weekend (thankfully, Ramapo cleared it; may prove that when they get out NJAC teams are dangerous). However, they are also a damn competitive conference. There are no easy nights and there are no undefeated seasons usually.

Once upon a time, though, the NJAC was D3's Beast of the East. Ramapo, Rowan, William Paterson, Stockton ... even TCNJ in '89 ... there's a lot of Final Four trophies in New Jersey trophy cases.

[Gregory Sager]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.

Reread my stuff... I talk about the top five - that is the upper echelon... and my thoughts on Top 5. The convo started on IIAC being ranked by the computers number two. My point was to say, no... they aren't in the upper echelon, but they are certainly in the convo for top ten.

I don't disagree with you... and I never said the SUNYAC was in my top five nor the upper echelon.

My point is that the SUNYAC shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA. If you're going to extend it down to a top ten and lump those leagues in with the likes of the SUNYAC, you're really distorting the picture. Those leagues are in a class by themselves. (Not too long ago I would've put the ODAC there, too, but the ODAC seems to have slumped over the past few years.)

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

My thinking in the NJAC is the same as the SUNYAC... it isn't necessarily about the NCAA tournament. Yes. Struggled to get out of the first weekend (thankfully, Ramapo cleared it; may prove that when they get out NJAC teams are dangerous). However, they are also a damn competitive conference. There are no easy nights and there are no undefeated seasons usually.

Once upon a time, though, the NJAC was D3's Beast of the East. Ramapo, Rowan, William Paterson, Stockton ... even TCNJ in '89 ... there's a lot of Final Four trophies in New Jersey trophy cases.

You are very, very right. It was a beast. Catholic beat Willy P in '01 for the title. Stockton has been back to the final four twice since then... but sadly, they have struggled outside of that when it comes to the postseason. I think we may see that turning around. There are some young and very good (smart) coaches in that league now. TCNJ's turnaround is part of that. The league may be heading back to some of its glory.

I know the NJAC has complained that DII has been killing their recruiting in the last decade plus. I understand their angst, but I wonder, too, if the old-school and long-time coaches just haven't figured out how to adjust. I think the new ones who are having success have figured out how to adjust and even McBreen may have found a way to adjust - he no longer has a revolving door midway through the season... it is uncanny.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Others that are certainly in the top ten conversation now include (no particular order; not mentioning IIAC just as an exercise - more than ten mentioned FYI): UAA, WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, NCAC, OAC, ODAC, NEWMAC, Commonweatlh, Centennial, NJAC, SUNYAC.

SUNYAC? The SUNYAC hasn't been to the Elite Eight since Brockport got there eleven years ago, and Ronald Reagan was still president the last time that a SUNYAC team made the Final Four. When I think of the SUNYAC I think of March cannon fodder for the NESCAC and Rochester. (Sorry, magicman. As someone born and bred in upstate New York I wish it wasn't so, but it is.)

So back to my comment about the Commonwealth... the SUNYAC has been very competitive from top to bottom most years. They do produce pretty good teams. Plattsburgh didn't look great tonight, but they are a better team than tonight showed. Plattsburgh also stopped one of the best offensive tandems in New England in the first round.

But again, I think the SUNYAC has for years had a very good conference from top to bottom. The top isn't the only metric I use (as I have shown). Sometimes just getting through conference play because of how good the bottom is is something to be considered. The SUNYAC hasn't been as strong the last few years and that's why I think it may not belong in the top ten now, but I feel it has been part of the conversation.

I agree with you to a certain degree, inasmuch as conferences are best measured top to bottom when sorted out as an aggregate whole within D3. That's always been my knock on the MIAA and the NCAC -- they were too top-heavy over long stretches of time, too plagued by lightweight, never-competitive programs at the bottom. The SUNYAC has great balance; it's much like the OAC in that regard, although I think that the OAC's pedigree is better.

But if you're going to be in the upper echelon -- i.e., the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA -- you've got to produce in March. And the SUNYAC decidedly doesn't produce in March.

Reread my stuff... I talk about the top five - that is the upper echelon... and my thoughts on Top 5. The convo started on IIAC being ranked by the computers number two. My point was to say, no... they aren't in the upper echelon, but they are certainly in the convo for top ten.

I don't disagree with you... and I never said the SUNYAC was in my top five nor the upper echelon.

My point is that the SUNYAC shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as the WIAC, CCIW, NESCAC, and UAA. If you're going to extend it down to a top ten and lump those leagues in with the likes of the SUNYAC, you're really distorting the picture. Those leagues are in a class by themselves. (Not too long ago I would've put the ODAC there, too, but the ODAC seems to have slumped over the past few years.)

Sager... when you talk about the top ten... you have to mention them all. I started with the Top 5 and mentioned that group... the mentioned the top ten and to not make people think I had forgotten the top group, I mentioned them again. That isn't to say they are even with them in anyway. I am simply saying there are 13-15 conferences that could be argued to be in the top ten. Never did I say they were on the same level as a handful of them, but you can't say... here is my top ten, but we are only going to rank six.

[AndOne]

The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.

I am not saying they shouldn't be applauded with sticking to the DIII model, but the moment they didn't... they wouldn't have been in DIII. I was simply saying, of course they adhered to the principle... they had to if they were serious about their membership.

[Gregory Sager]

All I'm saying, Dave, is that, long-term, it goes like this:

1. WIAC
2. NESCAC
3. CCIW
4. UAA
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
5. another conference
6. another conference
7. another conference
8. another conference
9. another conference
10. another conference

... so using a top ten as your marker doesn't give anyone a true picture of what D3 men's basketball really looks like.

(Numbers two thru four are always up for debate as to their running order from year to year, but I think that we all concede that the WIAC is the king of the hill.)

[Smitty Oom]

Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post! 

[Gregory Sager]

Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post! 

Maybe tomorrow. I'm starting to wind down right now. Too much overstimulation from too many close games tonight.

[Gregory Sager]

The thing is, Dave, that it would have been easy for NWU to give in and start giving athletic money, especially considering they were kind of on an island with regard to other NCAA schools. So give them a little credit for continuing to adhere to the NCAA philosophy and to work to ultimately solely associate with that organization.

I am not saying they shouldn't be applauded with sticking to the DIII model, but the moment they didn't... they wouldn't have been in DIII. I was simply saying, of course they adhered to the principle... they had to if they were serious about their membership.

I agree. I don't think that anyone should break into a round of applause for NebWes just for observing the rules, same as everybody else in D3. And there are other schools in D3 that are in worse spots in terms of geography, league affiliation opportunities, and scheduling.

[Smitty Oom]

Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post! 

Maybe tomorrow. I'm starting to wind down right now. Too much overstimulation from too many close games tonight.

I will be waiting on bated breath 

[kiko]

Greg, would you mind posting your top 10 conferences. I am quite curious. I understand you think a linear 1-10 rank doesn't properly explain how much better those 4 conferences are than the rest, but humor me for a post! 

Maybe tomorrow. I'm starting to wind down right now. Too much overstimulation from too many close games tonight.

Since you think the ordinal ranking doesn't paint the full picture, when/if you do so, I'd appreciate if you would include some sort of a power rank that shows where the tiers are.

For example, on a 1-25 scale, it might show:
1. WIAC - 24
2. NESCAC - 21
3. UAA - 20
4. CCIW - 20
5. MIAC - 14
etc.
etc.