2018 Season - National Perspective

[calvin_grad]

Snow and ice and highs in the mid 30s this weekend for the games at Calvin. 

Since Calvin likely to be hosting both weekends do you see any chance the games will be moved to Hope as they were a few years ago?  What condition is the field in now?

How is hosting for the 2nd weekend determined?

I assume that geography is more important than ranking/record.  Calvin and the other teams they are hosting in the 1st weekend are from Michigan and Wisconsin.  The other teams they would play in the 2nd weekend are considerably east and fairly concentrated.  Case, JCU, and Kenyon are all in the greater Cleveland area (and maybe favorites to win this 1st weekend) and CMU, Westminster, and Capital are all nearby, so I would assume one of those schools would host the 2nd weekend.  I looked at flights to Lansing (which i assume is where teams would fly into to play Calvin) and they are much more expensive then a more major city like Cleveland/Pittsburgh.

I have no idea how the hosting would work, but teams would fly right into Grand Rapids, which is where Calvin is located.  It's the second biggest city in Michigan and generally cheaper to fly into GR than Lansing.

[PaulNewman]

Following on from D3Grad, thought I'd drop some thoughts here also.

As a former player in the West Region I CANNOT believe that Southwestern were put in above Claremont. Somebody has already raised this, but I see absolutely no reason aside from saving money by not having to fly another team from California that Claremont missed out. Their defensive record this year speaks for itself and when you take into account everything else on their resume I can't  legislate for Southwestern jumping to #1 in the region. That's madness. But I will say its a huge moment for the southwestern program (who are vastly improved in recent years)  and a great opportunity for them to make a name for themselves. Though a team that will really hold a grudge on this will be Colorado College who have been overlooked in the past for a pool C bid with better candidacy than Southwestern has this year. Colorado's island status in the D3 landscape hurts them.

The D3 landscape is obviously heavily geographically slanted towards the eastern side of the country, but I will say that it was (and is) infuriating to constantly see the West overlooked year on year on the national scale. Largely, this comes down to strength of schedule which for me is considered WAY too highly in the selection process. Budgets are not endless. West region schools often can't fly across the country multiple times a season to challenge UAA or NESCAC schools and most are also hamstrung by double round robin formats, or single round robin conferences with too many teams. The West typically getting just one Pool C each year is very harsh on a number of talented teams in the region that suffers purely based on being on an island - relatively speaking.

I do feel that CMS got screwed as I mean CMS ended up 4-1-0 RvR and in the West that is like going 7-1-0 RvR in New England. I suppose as D-MAC has suggested it is possible that the committee already looks at the RvR more in depth than just the actual record but who exactly you are beating that is ranked. They beat Redlands twice who was ranked #4 in the West and Occidental once who was ranked #6 and Macalester once as they were ranked #7 in Week 3. So those 4 ranked Wins are against the bottom of ranked teams so that could possibly be the only explanation. Still to me they would still be on the right side of the bubble so if you have 3-4 teams you are looking at to fill the last 1-2 spots in the tournament I really cannot believe that the money/flights issue would not be lurking in the back of the committee's mind. I really do not believe that the committee is trying "to spend money" as every organization is on some kind of a budget. I mean if there were not budget constraints then Trinity TX would be hosting Sweet 16 / Elite 8 pods most years instead of getting shipped out to wherever is geographically convenient and the "cheaper" option for the Committee. To me that is just as much malpractice as not selecting CMS or West teams because of concerns about money. Frankly had Trinity TX hosted all those Sweet 16 / Elite 8 pods when they were deserving who knows how many National Championships they would have won. Maybe one or two more?

I know it's time to move on from C-M-S but this is fascinating.  Just 2-3 days ago you suggested as a future idea to make things better consideration of upper half ranked wins/results versus lower half.  Now "d-mac" suggests that has been happening all along.  I've followed this site pretty closely for 5+ years and I've never seen anyone suggest that has been past and current operating procedure with soccer.  I don't buy it.  I get and can accept that the cmtes start fresh each week, but still, Southwestern was ranked #6 in the West in Week 3 (the week D3soccer experts consider to foreshadow selections) and jumped to #1.  C-M-S falls from #1 to #3.  C-M-S beat Southwestern on winning % AND ranked results.  There was a relatively small advantage to Southwestern on SoS. 

I can accept the idea that cmtes don't make decisions (on selections) based on limiting air flights.  I can accept that there is a reason for the decision regarding C-M-S that we don't know or understand.  I do not believe the cmte did a deep dive assessment of ranked wins and which ranked wins were better than others.  Again, no one other than one poster has made that suggestion, and one would think we would have seen that methodology playing out in other regions, including regions most of us are more familiar with and would noticed by now.  MANY times we have discussed the importance of so and so picking up a ranked win or losing a ranked win based on who cracks the rankings and who drops out, etc, etc.....but we have never explained a selection outcome based on as assessment of the relative quality of ranked results.  If that's the case, why stop there, and why not consider results that based on some quirk missed the rankings but the cmte can see they were legit results to consider nonetheless...and why not consider the inherent disadvantages of certain regions, as Mr.Right also has suggested, in weighting things differently (e.g. 3 ranked wins in the West might be equivalent to 5-6 wins in the Mid-Atlantic.  At any rate, I've never before see suggestions that such considerations have been in play already.

[Mr.Right]

Well done......+k......I think the Committee Chairs of the West(University of Dallas Head Coach) and South Atlantic Regions(Former Rowan Head Coach and current AD Dan Gilmore) and respective members  have really mucked up their respective regions as we have more questions than answers. I will say the South Atlantic finished strong as their final ranking was pretty much spot on but man their work on Week 3 was a full head scratch. More transparency with this whole process is sorely needed. I wonder who scrutinizes their work? If anyone..Is it just the top dog Brandon Bianco or is there anyone from the NCAA that is looking over their shoulders? I wonder if it is someone in Indy that is behind a desk that emails them a budget with a number not to go over and wipes their hands clean of any responsibility....

Wow...just saw C-M-S Head Coach Matt Edwards is on West committee....Talk about a slap in the face...So I am curious how this works...He is in on everything during their deliberations then the second C-M-S is brought up he must get off the call? Or is it because C-M-S is in the mixer Edwards cannot be involved at all?  If its the former that is a massive slap in the face.

[calvin_grad]

2" inches of snow predicted for Grand Rapids on Friday, mostly falling in the morning and later at night.  Highs in the mid-30s with wind chills in the upper teens.  Perfect soccer weather for the Calvin sectional.   

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Well done......+k......I think the Committee Chairs of the West(University of Dallas Head Coach) and South Atlantic Regions(Former Rowan Head Coach and current AD Dan Gilmore) and respective members  have really mucked up their respective regions as we have more questions than answers. I will say the South Atlantic finished strong as their final ranking was pretty much spot on but man their work on Week 3 was a full head scratch. More transparency with this whole process is sorely needed. I wonder who scrutinizes their work? If anyone..Is it just the top dog Brandon Bianco or is there anyone from the NCAA that is looking over their shoulders? I wonder if it is someone in Indy that is behind a desk that emails them a budget with a number not to go over and wipes their hands clean of any responsibility....

Wow...just saw C-M-S Head Coach Matt Edwards is on West committee....Talk about a slap in the face...So I am curious how this works...He is in on everything during their deliberations then the second C-M-S is brought up he must get off the call? Or is it because C-M-S is in the mixer Edwards cannot be involved at all?  If its the former that is a massive slap in the face.

Remember something ... the regional committees can rank however they want, but the national committee can change it or throw it out. The regional committees only advise. I would caution throwing shade on the regional chairs of each region without knowing what the national committee did or not. Those chairs also guide, but do not dictate how those rankings are to go in their own regions. They may say, "the national committee stresses this; the national committee feels we are not ranking properly based on the criteria or what the rest of the committees are doing; etc." Those chairs, though, cannot say "rank so-and-so one, so-and-so two, etc." That is not allowed. Many regional chairs I know will also ask for each voter's point of view on their vote simply so they can present the arguments to the national committee. The info is sent to the regional chairs after the vote is tabulated, so there is no changing of the vote (it is locked in once a cmte member is done voting). The national committee may, probably, reorder things, but they won't change the vote of regional members.

I do wish maybe D3soccer took the time to form a relationship with the committees and members and even talked to them on the record. It appears maybe they do not (without pouring through the website to check). We have found these relationships invaluable at D3football, D3hoops, D3baseball, etc. (as I talk to other sports like lacrosse and even higher up in the Championships Committee and above) and educational. We stress to the committees we want help in making the process transparent. They usually have the same opinion back. They understand we are going to ask particular questions and those committees can then answer. Some of those conversations also take place off the record which at the very least helps us present information and understanding moving forward.

If anyone at D3soccer is reading this ... I would strongly consider striking up relationships with at least the national committee. I have known the chairs of past committees (and current). I may dive into this, but only if I can balance everything else I am doing in the fall and while not being a member of the D3soccer group.

Per CMS - he can be involved in anything and everything until his team is discussed, then he either has to hangup or mute the phone. Once his team is no longer being discussed, he can rejoin the call. That is just the regional call. He would never be involved in the national call - except if he somehow was the back-up to the West Region chair should they have to remove themselves because their team is involved. This is assuming the Dallas coach has his team ahead of CMS - it is impossible to have both of them off the call. (And I am creating a scenario where the CMS coach might be involved in the national call; I have no clue who the West Region back-up would be IF Dallas would make it to the table.)

Let me also clarify something ... I've been told by a number of committees in a number of sports that they break the vRRO down to look at who was played, ranked, etc. That does not mean EVERYONE does it or the degree of how they do it is the same (no committee does these things exactly the same way; it is designed to present variable ways of reading the data). I just know that it is something discussed amongst committee chairs (they meet every two years; they met this September in Indy) and that a number of committees do that kind of breakdown. If soccer is not doing it, I would be disappointed.

[Flying Weasel]

So, the single 16-team ECAC Tournament kicks off today as well (up until a few years ago they did three or four regional tournaments of 6 or 8 teams each).  According to the ECAC website, 33 teams declared for the tournament this year.  This declaration happens prior to completion of conference tournaments and the announcement of the NCAA at-large berths.  Ends up five of the declared teams made the NCAA tournament (3 by AQ, 2 by Pool C at-large berth). 

Interesting to note that Brandeis and Ithaca both declared but neither is among the 16 teams participating.  Turned down by the ECAC?  Ouch!  Unless they changed their minds and withdrew.   Don't see how you don't take Ithaca if they want in.  Brandeis, being sub-.500 maybe is understandable. 

Back-to-back champion Lebanon Valley did not declare so they could go for the three-peat.  Wonder why not.  Up to four more competitive games for your players (especially the underclassmen).  I understand why Messiah wouldn't have declared back in 2015, but any program trying to get to the next level and become relevant and become an NCAA tournament team should be taking advantage of the chance to get in some more competitive games, right?

[1970s NESCAC Player]

So, the single 16-team ECAC Tournament kicks off today as well (up until a few years ago they did three or four regional tournaments of 6 or 8 teams each).  According to the ECAC website, 33 teams declared for the tournament this year.  This declaration happens prior to completion of conference tournaments and the announcement of the NCAA at-large berths.  Ends up five of the declared teams made the NCAA tournament (3 by AQ, 2 by Pool C at-large berth). 

Interesting to note that Brandeis and Ithaca both declared but neither is among the 16 teams participating.  Turned down by the ECAC?  Ouch!  Unless they changed their minds and withdrew.   Don't see how you don't take Ithaca if they want in.  Brandeis, being sub-.500 maybe is understandable. 

Back-to-back champion Lebanon Valley did not declare so they could go for the three-peat.  Wonder why not.  Up to four more competitive games for your players (especially the underclassmen).  I understand why Messiah wouldn't have declared back in 2015, but any program trying to get to the next level and become relevant and become an NCAA tournament team should be taking advantage of the chance to get in some more competitive games, right?

Thanks for the interesting info FW, but this may be only partially correct.  As you will note, (unless I misread), there are no New England teams or Capital Region upstate NY teams in the bracket.  In the past, these two regions have had their own ECAC tournaments.  The bracket you linked to may just be an expanded ECAC tournament for the other geographic regions that have traditionally participated.  It could well be that the New England and Upstate NY regions could not put together a large enough quality field based upon the limited declarants.  I don't recall that Upstate NY has had a tournament in approximately a decade.

On the other hand, you may be entirely correct that the New England teams and Ithaca either withdrew or were rejected . . .

[Flying Weasel]

You may be on to something there.  I really have no idea and no insight.  I do know that it's just been a single tournament for few years now.

Medaille (Rochester, NY) is in which is further away than Ithaca.  There are six NYC metro area teams (Manhattanville, New Rochelle, SUNY Maritime, William Paterson, Rutgers-Newark and Drew) but, beyond that up into New England, only Brandeis and Maine Maritime declared and did not get into the NCAA's (Springfield declared but ended up winning the AQ).

[lastguyoffthebench]

You need to have over.500 win percentage.  Maybe that changed, but it would be a reason why no Brandeis... 

Muhlenberg left out and also under.500 so my guess is that is still a requirement

[luckylefty]

So, the single 16-team ECAC Tournament kicks off today as well (up until a few years ago they did three or four regional tournaments of 6 or 8 teams each).  According to the ECAC website, 33 teams declared for the tournament this year.  This declaration happens prior to completion of conference tournaments and the announcement of the NCAA at-large berths.  Ends up five of the declared teams made the NCAA tournament (3 by AQ, 2 by Pool C at-large berth). 

Interesting to note that Brandeis and Ithaca both declared but neither is among the 16 teams participating.  Turned down by the ECAC?  Ouch!  Unless they changed their minds and withdrew.   Don't see how you don't take Ithaca if they want in.  Brandeis, being sub-.500 maybe is understandable. 

Back-to-back champion Lebanon Valley did not declare so they could go for the three-peat.  Wonder why not.  Up to four more competitive games for your players (especially the underclassmen).  I understand why Messiah wouldn't have declared back in 2015, but any program trying to get to the next level and become relevant and become an NCAA tournament team should be taking advantage of the chance to get in some more competitive games, right?

The ECAC tournament can be tough.  Obviously in an ideal setting it's a valuable thing for your team, but imagine how difficult it is for 20 year old kids to get excited about it.  They started the year with a goal of winning a championship and making the tournament, worked hard every day in the offseason, made huge sacrifices and then they come up short of their goal.  Two days later they have to turn around and get over their disappointment and play in a tournament they don't want to be in anyway.  It's a difficult thing for teams to do, and I think it's the reason some teams opt out.

[Gregory Sager]

Medaille (Rochester, NY) is in which is further away than Ithaca.

Medaille's original and main campus is in Buffalo, not Rochester. That's where the athletic facilities are located and the Mavericks teams are based.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Biggest reason the ECAC has schools "missing" and what not ... schools are waning in interest of staying involved with the ECAC ... and some decide the "carrot" can only go so far.

Let's start with the second one... some programs use it as a carrot to help teams prepare and get used to making the NCAA Tournament. Play in a few ECACs and continue improving and one day they make the big dance. Sometimes, programs decide, the carrot got them only so far and now missing out altogether maybe sends a better message and lights a fire under the team for the future. School dependent of course.

The first part ... the ECACs have been in trouble in all sports for some time (even though, football was fine, the ECAC messed with it for no reason and now it's in trouble). More and more schools have looked at the money spent to be a part of the ECACs ($2500 a year or so) for the chance to be in tournaments, but then they don't get much in return. They have to pay their own expenses in the tournaments (including hosting costs that are not reimbursed) and the justification was starting to wane - especially in economic tight times that college and universities are currently in and have been for several years now. Add in the overall feeling the ECAC had started to ignore DIII and basically use the money coming in for other reasons.

As a result, a number of things have happened in recent years. ECAC has lost a lot of DIII members including the entire hockey block - all those conferences have formed their own or been adopted by parent conferences (the conferences schools already reside in). There is no more ECAC hockey for DIII.

Schools also started backing out of playing in ECAC tournaments or even hosting. I can't tell you how many 5, 6, 7-seed teams were hosting the championship weekends (thanks, in part, to upsets) because the top seeds didn't want to host any more. The costs couldn't be justified.

Not that long ago the dues for the NCAA were $900 a year for a school. The post-season tournaments - participation and hosting - are basically paid for. Now, those dues have gone up to about $2000 a year (in an overwhelming vote in favor by DIII institutions) ... and yet, still, tournaments are being paid for. So, you pay $2500 to the ECAC for ... awards?

Now, the ECAC has added a "dues for a specific sports tournament" allowing schools to just pay for each sport they want to play in. They don't have to make the decision at the start of the season, but at the time of the tournament. It isn't making a difference. Multiple sports that had four or five regional brackets are down to one or two overall ... and ECAC is scrambling.

First (bigger mistake) was they screwed around with football. Absolutely botched the ONLY thing no one had a problem with ... and subsequently lost two conferences, followed by three more, and then additional two. They are down to three bowl games and barely have good teams for that.

The second mistake was to try and consolidate the basketball tournaments into one NIT-esque tournament and play it out over three weeks. They asked permission from the NCAA. It was denied and now they are in a tougher spot.

All this as the ECAC has been hemorrhaging money ... they have had to allow sub .500 teams into some tournaments ...

I could go on and on. My point: not surprised a number of teams are missing or starting to decide it isn't worth being in the ECACs anymore.

[TyWebb]

United Soccer Coaches Award Central for All Regions:

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/Awards/Awards_Central/web/Awards/Awards_Central_2018.aspx?hkey=a6159cd0-434d-4d80-8a85-433d7524d2fe

[blooter442]

All-American selections are out: https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/web/News/Articles/November_2018/United_Soccer_Coaches_Reveals_NCAA_Division_III_All-America_Teams.aspx

[truenorth]

If you use this as the measuring stick, Calvin (3 All Americans) and Chicago (2) should have it all over Tufts and Rochester (1 each) in the final.  Also, interesting to note that only 4 of the 49 All Americans are from New England schools, despite the heavy concentration of D3 schools in New England.  Must mean the non-New England schools do a much better job of recruiting top shelf talent...