Coaching Carousel

[VAFury]

Ummm.  I'm here to discuss soccer?  Not debate with someone who apparently never had a mother or a female boss, teacher, principal, etc... in their entire life?

I'll say this.  Feminism and female leadership isn't what got us to this point.  I'd argue that we are suffering from the opposite; A complete LACK of female leadership in many places.  Not sure what this "Truth vs Peace" narrative is, because they are not mutually exclusive concepts.

Anyhoo.  So that Jane Mansfield had some big breasts.  (Sorry...  When in doubt, diffuse with Seinfeld)

[Pat Coleman]

Wow.

Uhm, wow.

I didn't see any posts from Idaho but I do see posts from California or something. Hmm.

[PaulNewman]

Well this is more excitement than I expected logging into the boards tonight.  Mr. Marching I do think it is fair to acknowledge that some people will certainly be turned off by the idea of playing for a female coach which does limit your available talent pool. I don't think that is necessarily prohibitive to being successful at a school like Uchicago or NYU that tends to attract more liberal students who may be more open to the idea compared to other schools.

That being said it seems a little outlandish to flat out dismiss all women from all leadership positions. Numerous women are serving with distinction in the upper echelons of the military today, a position that requires a level of leadership of men far beyond that required of a dIII soccer coach.

D4, we couldn't get you to chime in on subbing rules, but you jump in and actually appear to give this guy oxygen by saying he kinda, sorta has a point?  How many women do you think this guy believes should be in your med school class?

If a kid is gonna make a decision and opt out of a choice because of a female coach, then fine, do whatever you want.  And transfer a couple of years later if the chosen school ends up hiring a woman.  But you're colluding with a guy trolling who vaguely exploited some D3 coaching news for the sole purpose of ranting very recklessly but also intentionally about his neanderthal view of women in general.  And then he ridiculously posed as inviting debate after vomiting a totally outrageous caricature of a caricature of the most obscene take on women (and men) imaginable.  Even in his absurd fictional account, do the 10 women he's referring to at the compound in "Northern Idaho" know that in addition to having the right to serve the country they're also entitled to vote?  And, btw, the guy didn't qualify his view at all.  Not only should women never have any role with any leadership involving men, they shouldn't have any leadership role anywhere with anyone "period."

Finally, D4, I think I understand what you were trying to suggest about NYU and Chicago.  But really?  You want that as a take-home message?  "Attracts more liberal students"?  Compared to............Tufts?  Can we get a full list of colleges that frown upon women being in leadership roles?  Or maybe women shouldn't go to college?  Or if they do go, should they do so solely for the purpose of providing hubby with some interesting conversation at dinner after she's done washing and folding all of his laundry?  Btw, I'm less sure about NYU, but Chicago is quite diverse and is known for producing a large number of conservative intellectuals.

Disappointing.

[jknezek]

Well this is more excitement than I expected logging into the boards tonight.  Mr. Marching I do think it is fair to acknowledge that some people will certainly be turned off by the idea of playing for a female coach which does limit your available talent pool. I don't think that is necessarily prohibitive to being successful at a school like Uchicago or NYU that tends to attract more liberal students who may be more open to the idea compared to other schools.

That being said it seems a little outlandish to flat out dismiss all women from all leadership positions. Numerous women are serving with distinction in the upper echelons of the military today, a position that requires a level of leadership of men far beyond that required of a dIII soccer coach.

D4, we couldn't get you to chime in on subbing rules, but you jump in and actually appear to give this guy oxygen by saying he kinda, sorta has a point?  How many women do you think this guy believes should be in your med school class?

If a kid is gonna make a decision and opt out of a choice because of a female coach, then fine, do whatever you want.  And transfer a couple of years later if the chosen school ends up hiring a woman.  But you're colluding with a guy trolling who vaguely exploited some D3 coaching news for the sole purpose of ranting very recklessly but also intentionally about his neanderthal view of women in general.  And then he ridiculously posed as inviting debate after vomiting a totally outrageous caricature of a caricature of the most obscene take on women (and men) imaginable.  Even in his absurd fictional account, do the 10 women he's referring to at the compound in "Northern Idaho" know that in addition to having the right to serve the country they're also entitled to vote?  And, btw, the guy didn't qualify his view at all.  Not only should women never have any role with any leadership involving men, they shouldn't have any leadership role anywhere with anyone "period."

Finally, D4, I think I understand what you were trying to suggest about NYU and Chicago.  But really?  You want that as a take-home message?  "Attracts more liberal students"?  Compared to............Tufts?  Can we get a full list of colleges that frown upon women being in leadership roles?  Or maybe women shouldn't go to college?  Or if they do go, should they do so solely for the purpose of providing hubby with some interesting conversation at dinner after she's done washing and folding all of his laundry?  Btw, I'm less sure about NYU, but Chicago is quite diverse and is known for producing a large number of conservative intellectuals.

Disappointing.

I think you read too much into D4's post. He is clearly not giving any support to our troll. But it's ridiculous to assume that people don't feel similar to our troll. I live in AL, I see it all the time. My wife and I are both martial arts instructors. We have parents that won't bring their elementary school through h.s. age boys to classes she teaches, and she is a much better instructor and martial artist than me. She's a freaking special education teacher as her day job, so if anyone knows how to instruct, it's her. But they won't bring their boys to her classes because they feel a woman should not be instructing boys in sports, especially a sport like martial arts. My wife, by the way, would kick their butts, men or women, in seconds flat.

But people all have a myriad of opinions. Do I think they are completely freaking nuts and living 60 years in the past and am super glad that my daughter has choices besides being a homemaker and on-call June Cleaver to her future spouse? Heck yeah. But that doesn't mean that lots of people don't feel different. Especially in certain areas of the country.

There is not a doubt in my mind that a significant, maybe not a large number but a significant, number of male players will not want to play for a female coach. And their parents will be leading that charge because guess where they learned to think that way? I think D4 has a fair point about which schools will be able to help usher in this change, and I think we could make a very fair point about which schools cannot or will not.

[jknezek]

Andrew Bednarsky was my assistant coach when I was the head coach at Heidelberg for a short time.  I can tell you that he is a class act all the way around and will make a fantastic head coach at whichever university is lucky enough to hire him.  Bednarsky for President!!!!

One of our troll's previous posts. I wonder how Heidelberg would feel about a coach with his opinions these days? Certainly all those female students on campus wouldn't be happy knowing a staff member was walking around thinking they were wasting time better spent barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen!

And less than 2 minutes of internet digging gives me our troll's most likely name, given there was a Heidelberg coach for a year who went sub .500 and who played at St. Lawrence during their late 90s era glory years. Though to be fair, only one coach in Heidelberg's history has been over .500 overall.

Who knows, maybe the account was hijacked?

[Hopkins92]

I've never felt the need to give out negative karma on this site... Until I logged in today and saw that post.

A very common tactic of those spouting misogynist (or racist) crap is to put out a totally outlandish point of view, completely devoid of empirical or factual information, and then cry about "the end of discourse of in America."

No, the end of civil discourse is posting completely offensive nonsense, intended to inflame not encourage honest dialogue and healthy debate.

Ridiculous.

[Another Mom]

Andrew Bednarsky was my assistant coach when I was the head coach at Heidelberg for a short time.  I can tell you that he is a class act all the way around and will make a fantastic head coach at whichever university is lucky enough to hire him.  Bednarsky for President!!!!

One of our troll's previous posts. I wonder how Heidelberg would feel about a coach with his opinions these days? Certainly all those female students on campus wouldn't be happy knowing a staff member was walking around thinking they were wasting time better spent barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen!

And less than 2 minutes of internet digging gives me our troll's most likely name, given there was a Heidelberg coach for a year who went sub .500 and who played at St. Lawrence during their late 90s era glory years. Though to be fair, only one coach in Heidelberg's history has been over .500 overall.

Who knows, maybe the account was hijacked?

Well, perhaps the account was hacked.  That same one year Heidelberg coach, former St. Lawrence player is also a coach in California, apparently where these posts originated from. I would imagine UC Riverside would be more interested than Heidelberg in these opinions, though.

[jknezek]

Andrew Bednarsky was my assistant coach when I was the head coach at Heidelberg for a short time.  I can tell you that he is a class act all the way around and will make a fantastic head coach at whichever university is lucky enough to hire him.  Bednarsky for President!!!!

One of our troll's previous posts. I wonder how Heidelberg would feel about a coach with his opinions these days? Certainly all those female students on campus wouldn't be happy knowing a staff member was walking around thinking they were wasting time better spent barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen!

And less than 2 minutes of internet digging gives me our troll's most likely name, given there was a Heidelberg coach for a year who went sub .500 and who played at St. Lawrence during their late 90s era glory years. Though to be fair, only one coach in Heidelberg's history has been over .500 overall.

Who knows, maybe the account was hijacked?

Well, perhaps the account was hacked.  That same one year Heidelberg coach, former St. Lawrence player is also a coach in California, apparently where these posts originated from. I would imagine UC Riverside would be more interested than Heidelberg in these opinions, though.

Personally I sincerely hope the account was hijacked. But who knows? Like I said earlier, living in AL that opinion, while idiotic to me, is not unheard of. 

Edited because originally I had uncommon, that's too strong. It is uncommon. But it's certainly not unheard of.

[PaulNewman]

Well this is more excitement than I expected logging into the boards tonight.  Mr. Marching I do think it is fair to acknowledge that some people will certainly be turned off by the idea of playing for a female coach which does limit your available talent pool. I don't think that is necessarily prohibitive to being successful at a school like Uchicago or NYU that tends to attract more liberal students who may be more open to the idea compared to other schools.

That being said it seems a little outlandish to flat out dismiss all women from all leadership positions. Numerous women are serving with distinction in the upper echelons of the military today, a position that requires a level of leadership of men far beyond that required of a dIII soccer coach.

D4, we couldn't get you to chime in on subbing rules, but you jump in and actually appear to give this guy oxygen by saying he kinda, sorta has a point?  How many women do you think this guy believes should be in your med school class?

If a kid is gonna make a decision and opt out of a choice because of a female coach, then fine, do whatever you want.  And transfer a couple of years later if the chosen school ends up hiring a woman.  But you're colluding with a guy trolling who vaguely exploited some D3 coaching news for the sole purpose of ranting very recklessly but also intentionally about his neanderthal view of women in general.  And then he ridiculously posed as inviting debate after vomiting a totally outrageous caricature of a caricature of the most obscene take on women (and men) imaginable.  Even in his absurd fictional account, do the 10 women he's referring to at the compound in "Northern Idaho" know that in addition to having the right to serve the country they're also entitled to vote?  And, btw, the guy didn't qualify his view at all.  Not only should women never have any role with any leadership involving men, they shouldn't have any leadership role anywhere with anyone "period."

Finally, D4, I think I understand what you were trying to suggest about NYU and Chicago.  But really?  You want that as a take-home message?  "Attracts more liberal students"?  Compared to............Tufts?  Can we get a full list of colleges that frown upon women being in leadership roles?  Or maybe women shouldn't go to college?  Or if they do go, should they do so solely for the purpose of providing hubby with some interesting conversation at dinner after she's done washing and folding all of his laundry?  Btw, I'm less sure about NYU, but Chicago is quite diverse and is known for producing a large number of conservative intellectuals.

Disappointing.

I think you read too much into D4's post. He is clearly not giving any support to our troll. But it's ridiculous to assume that people don't feel similar to our troll. I live in AL, I see it all the time. My wife and I are both martial arts instructors. We have parents that won't bring their elementary school through h.s. age boys to classes she teaches, and she is a much better instructor and martial artist than me. She's a freaking special education teacher as her day job, so if anyone knows how to instruct, it's her. But they won't bring their boys to her classes because they feel a woman should not be instructing boys in sports, especially a sport like martial arts. My wife, by the way, would kick their butts, men or women, in seconds flat.

But people all have a myriad of opinions. Do I think they are completely freaking nuts and living 60 years in the past and am super glad that my daughter has choices besides being a homemaker and on-call June Cleaver to her future spouse? Heck yeah. But that doesn't mean that lots of people don't feel different. Especially in certain areas of the country.

There is not a doubt in my mind that a significant, maybe not a large number but a significant, number of male players will not want to play for a female coach. And their parents will be leading that charge because guess where they learned to think that way? I think D4 has a fair point about which schools will be able to help usher in this change, and I think we could make a very fair point about which schools cannot or will not.

Oh no, you again?  Even when we agree?  I'll respond here and then you can have all the final words (I promise) on this one.

Where did I say that there aren't others, like millions, who hold similar views? Or even millions trolling who choose to be provocative and inflammatory with no interest in any real debate at all?

In terms of what D4 wrote, I don't have an issue with him pointing out that there are players/families who would want to avoid a female coach, or that there might be a recruiting range shrinkage, or that there may be certain schools more equipped and able to hire women to coach men.

But the troll never mentioned impact on recruiting or competitiveness, or what schools could or could not absorb having a woman coach.  He solely used the topic to jump off into a rant about his brilliant philosophy of women globally.

Posts aren't just about what they say, but also what they do.  There's a reason why the troll embraced (relatively speaking) D4's post.  Whether intended or not (and I strongly presume not), D4's post gifted a sliver of legitimacy to the rant that imo is completely undeserved...and completely detached from any legitimate discussion that transpired. 

And yes, I'm still ticked off that D4 didn't contribute to our other epic discussion, even though I thought it was very possible he would disagree with most or all of my brilliant points.

Maybe there's a silver lining here....like a Simplecoach to Coach interview with the HCs of NYU and/or Chicago.  Maybe both of them together.

[jknezek]

Oh no, you again?  Even when we agree?  I'll respond here and then you can have all the final words (I promise) on this one.

Where did I say that there aren't others, like millions, who hold similar views? Or even millions trolling who choose to be provocative and inflammatory with no interest in any real debate at all?

In terms of what D4 wrote, I don't have an issue with him pointing out that there are players/families who would want to avoid a female coach, or that there might be a recruiting range shrinkage, or that there may be certain schools more equipped and able to hire women to coach men.

But the troll never mentioned impact on recruiting or competitiveness, or what schools could or could not absorb having a woman coach.  He solely used the topic to jump off into a rant about his brilliant philosophy of women globally.

Posts aren't just about what they say, but also what they do.  There's a reason why the troll embraced (relatively speaking) D4's post.  Whether intended or not (and I strongly presume not), D4's post gifted a sliver of legitimacy to the rant that imo is completely undeserved...and completely detached from any legitimate discussion that transpired. 

And yes, I'm still ticked off that D4 didn't contribute to our other epic discussion, even though I thought it was very possible he would disagree with most or all of my brilliant points.

Maybe there's a silver lining here....like a Simplecoach to Coach interview with the HCs of NYU and/or Chicago.  Maybe both of them together.

I guess I'm still just not sure what you took issue to in D4's post. But I don't really care either. I just didn't think D4 deserved to be called out or lumped with the Troll.

[Ralph Turner]

I am pleased to know Barbara Crousen, the former McMurry Track and Field Coach for men and women.

As Head Coach of Men's and Women's Track and Field, Barbara was the first woman to win an NCAA Men's Championship, the 2008 Outdoor Track and Field Championships. She repeated it in 2012. She had numerous Top 10 finishes with the women and men, both indoor and outdoor in her career.

On a merit basis, she knew how to coach, encourage, mentor, lead, and inspire young men and women. I would have loved to have run for her.

[EnmoreCat]

I was hoping that maybe SaintsGoMarching was actually sent in to test out the true D3 attributes of those who participate in this forum and their ability to not just think critically, but also clearly articulate that view in the broader liberal arts tradition.  At that level at least, it served a purpose!

If you are still reading Saints, the one example that you might not have considered in framing your view of the world, is that of Afghanistan.  Until recently, it was a country where for the first time in a long time, women were able to not just get something resembling a proper education, but also the opportunity to participate in society more broadly.  Obviously, that has now changed, but that segment of the population hasn't and have been either bravely active in trying to maintain that or left for places where they can continue to live more progressively.  I am not familiar at all with your part of the world, but I suspect as much as you might think that all/most women there are happy with their lot in life, there will be a generation coming through that will feel differently and that it's actually shrinking, albeit at a glacier pace.

[Gregory Sager]

Andrew Bednarsky was my assistant coach when I was the head coach at Heidelberg for a short time.  I can tell you that he is a class act all the way around and will make a fantastic head coach at whichever university is lucky enough to hire him.  Bednarsky for President!!!!

One of our troll's previous posts. I wonder how Heidelberg would feel about a coach with his opinions these days? Certainly all those female students on campus wouldn't be happy knowing a staff member was walking around thinking they were wasting time better spent barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen!

And less than 2 minutes of internet digging gives me our troll's most likely name, given there was a Heidelberg coach for a year who went sub .500 and who played at St. Lawrence during their late 90s era glory years. Though to be fair, only one coach in Heidelberg's history has been over .500 overall.

Who knows, maybe the account was hijacked?

Well, perhaps the account was hacked.  That same one year Heidelberg coach, former St. Lawrence player is also a coach in California, apparently where these posts originated from. I would imagine UC Riverside would be more interested than Heidelberg in these opinions, though.

The coach in question is no longer on the staff at Cal-Riverside.

[SimpleCoach]

Maybe there's a silver lining here....like a Simplecoach to Coach interview with the HCs of NYU and/or Chicago.  Maybe both of them together.

Just wait ... trying to line something up.  Stay tuned.

Just my two cents on the crazy on here.  My very long held belief is that ... I don't care.  I don't care your race, gender, sexuality, none of it.  Are you a good person, do you have the expertise, and in this case, do you love the game.  That's all that matters to me.  Sitch would not be in this position if she did not meet those requirements.  Now lets just judge her on what we judge other coaches on ... wins/losses, style of play, and managing a high profile program.

That's all I will contribute to this.

SC.

[Saint of Old]

Maybe there's a silver lining here....like a Simplecoach to Coach interview with the HCs of NYU and/or Chicago.  Maybe both of them together.

Just wait ... trying to line something up.  Stay tuned.

Just my two cents on the crazy on here.  My very long held belief is that ... I don't care.  I don't care your race, gender, sexuality, none of it.  Are you a good person, do you have the expertise, and in this case, do you love the game.  That's all that matters to me.  Sitch would not be in this position if she did not meet those requirements.  Now lets just judge her on what we judge other coaches on ... wins/losses, style of play, and managing a high profile program.

That's all I will contribute to this.

SC.

Agree totally, and I cannot wait to celebrate her success.
The one thing in this entire world that has brought more people together in love/passion/competetion/rivalry/entertainment/enjoyment is FOOTBALL. Regardless of race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, political views (some good football played in Brazil 70 and Argentina78) football supersedes all.
I am actually surprised more women, former pros and just students of the game are not involved as well.