The Big Dance

[NEsoccerfan]

Back to back years with 3 UAA teams in the elite 8 - quite impressive IMO. Let's see if they can repeat with 2 in the final 4. If Chicago or Rochester can win it all, id argue the UAA is the top conference over the last two years.

This is always a fun debate.  The UAA has without question had a very good run in recent years...3 teams in the elite 8 this year is impressive!  I think this point has been raised before...but doesn't the UAA's geographical dispersion help its teams' chances of getting into and advancing through the NCAA tournament?  One wonders if the NESCAC would advance more teams through the early rounds if they had schools in Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, NYC and upstate NY rather than beating on each other and the dozens of other D3 schools in New England...

Also, at the end of the day, it's about winning.  The NESCAC has had four different schools win the tournament (Williams, Middlebury, Tufts and Amherst) and a fifth (Bowdoin) make the final four.  If/when the UAA has several schools win the whole thing, then it's truly game on!

If the question is which has been the top conference over the last two years, which is the way that NESoccerFan posed it, then I think it's obvious that it's the UAA, even if neither Chicago or Rochester wins the tournament.  Over the last two years, the UAA has claimed seven Elite Eight spots out of a total of 16 available, and four Final Four spots out of a total of eight available.  In contrast, the NESCAC has claimed only two Elite Eight spots and one Final Four spot. 

In theory, it's possible that the NESCAC schools that are all assigned to the same regional could knock each other out, limiting the number of teams that cold advance (although I'll point out that this works the other way, too; if two teams from the same conference play, one won't advance, but one will, so with Tufts, Amherst and Midd all being assiged to the same half of the same regional, while only one of those teams could make the Elite Eight, there was an excellent chance that one of those teams would make the Elite Eight).  But over the last two years, the only intra-NESCAC matchup was Tufts' win over Amherst on Sat., which matches the number of intra-UAA matchups over the last two years (Chicago having beaten Emory in a regional final last year).

Thanks, Buck.O, that was exactly my point!

[Falconer]

I just wanted to circle back to a comment I made during the Messiah-Cortland game on Saturday, specifically this one:

"Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament..."

Three things might help critics understand what was in my mind at that moment.

(1) I was talking (in my mind) mainly to other Falcon fans, though I was certainly aware of a larger audience. In context, FW and I (and probably some others who didn't speak up) were talking about the difficulties the Falcons were having moving the ball forward from the back--the mainstay of their offense.  Did Cortland have something to do with this? Of course--my comment wasn't intended to imply any lack of intensity on their part. Remember, Messiah played Cortland on opening day, and on that day Cortland was no less aggressive defensively, but the Falcons still outshot them 19-11. IMO, at that moment on Saturday, the absence of Ruiz Plaza was making itself obvious (to me). Indeed, the first half shots were almost even (5-4 Messiah). I was reminding my fellow Falcon fans that you don't just take Ruiz Plaza out of the mix and expect the offense to work as well as it normally does--despite Cortland's intense pressure (see below).

(2) When I said, "Quite possibly, ...", I assumed folks would see both confidence and uncertainty in my mind. I basically meant, "I wouldn't be surprised if ..."  And, I would say that also today. I wouldn't be surprised if Ruiz Plaza actually is the best handler in the tournament, but I could certainly be persuaded otherwise by seeing someone better. So far, I haven't. His effectiveness is especially evident in the face of high defensive pressure, such as Cortland was exhibiting. He is rarely fazed by that. Ruiz Plaza is rarely flashy, only occasionally quick, but almost always very reliable even under much pressure. Anyone can lose the ball, and he's no exception, but he's the guy you want to have the ball at his feet in such situations. It will then go where it's most effective for it to go.

(3) Finally, in terms of losing him rather than someone else for the second week of games, if someone had asked me beforehand which Falcon(s) would I be most concerned about losing for the tournament, here's my list of three, in order:

--West (duh)
--Ruiz Plaza
--Luke Groothoff

In other words, I'd rather have almost anyone else miss those games. Ruiz Plaza was the main driver of the Falcon offense this year, as he had been for each of the 3 previous seasons. He didn't start the first two games of his FR season (2015), but after the debacle at CMU he entered the starting lineup and stayed there, except for injuries, the rest of his career. In Falcon history, it's unusual for a FR to start most or all of a season, and exceptional to do so at the 6/8 position that runs the offense. I don't quite think his game was on the level of Brian Ramirez, and certainly not at the level of the great Hayden Woodworth (POY in 2002 and the main reason for winning the Final Four in 2000), but he's head and shoulders above most other occupants of that role in Falcon history. It will be awfully hard to replace him in 2019.

So, this is what I was getting at in my brief comment.

[Bobcat1]

In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be

BEAUTIFUL stuff. THIS is what soccer is meant to look like - the Messiah, Chicago, Calvin etc. brand. Not that long throw, dump and run nonsense.

NESoccerfan - do you want to expand on this? Are you implying Messiah, Calvin, and Chicago play a certain brand of soccer that Rochester or Tufts does not? I'm not sure who you are referring to with the long throw, dump and run comment (Amherst?).  I have watched Chicago and Tufts play several times this year. They play a very similar brand of futbol. Not only can they knock it around, they can also play direct when the opportunity presents itself and can score off set pieces. I only watched Messiah play Lycoming in the conference final, so I'm not going to draw any conclusions from that one game. I know how good they are. I watched Calvin play all their tournament games and believe they knock it around at a level slightly above the group you mentioned. Just my two cents. At the end of the day, the championship trophy is not awarded for style points. I think any of the Final Four teams left are quite capable of winning the title.

[truenorth]

Yes...I find the preoccupation with "beautiful futbol" in D3 soccer to be somewhat amusing.  This is not La Liga, nor is it year around club soccer.  This is D3 soccer...featuring good, hard working athletes who play a very short regular season leading in to a high pressure "one and done" NCAA tournament.  The object is to win.  If I were a coach, I'd be encouraging athleticism, fearlessness, winning the 50/50s and strong, high pressure defense from front to back.  If you have the time to knock it around and effectively build up an attack...great...but you gotta do what you gotta do when faced with various circumstances in the moment.  And you'd better be adaptable.  It's about effectiveness and not aesthetics...

[Dave B]

Wow.  Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.

According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.

I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.

The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound.  Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away.  Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.

Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful.  But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se.  Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.

https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx

The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).

Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box.  Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down.  Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.

I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play.  I'm curious to hear what other people think. 

Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Looks incidental to me. Played goalie nearly my entire career including through college and after ... and that's just two people going for the ball and it not played well by the keeper. I don't see it as a foul even when refs protect keepers.

Crazy goal to be sure. Seen it happen, but sucks every time.

[Flying Weasel]

The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship.

Having played at Messiah in a playoff game, I can attest to the fact thet there is indeed a 12th man factor for the Falcons when they are at home.

Cortland and Rochester know they can beat Messiah or any other team in the country...
Still loads of time left and you cannot write off a champion, but having to travel to Rochester might prove telling.

Not to be a Soccerdamus on this one, but as soon as I heard the venue was changed I thought that they would have issues this weekend.
A team like Messiah has a formula that has worked for almost two decades...
Host until the final four and take care of business once there.
PA is a fortress to these guys.
The program is much more than the players and coaches, it is the Alums and the fans, these guys get a big boost playing infront of a home crowd and more importantly, it can intimidate players nd teams who are not supremely confident in themselves.

History provides a counterpoint to your suggestion that being away from home reduced Messiah's probability of advancing. There's virtually no difference in Messiah's NCAA W-L-T record at home versus away from home in the Brandt/McCarty Era. And their loss to Rochester was the first time in the Brandt/McCarty era that the Falcons lost to a host team in an NCAA game.

Messiah in the NCAA Tournament

1st Round to Quarterfinals (pre-Final Four)
Brandt/McCarty Era (1997-2017): Home 33-4-1 (.882), Away/Neutral 19-1-3 (.891)
10 Titles in 14 Years (2000-2013): Home 25-1-0 (.962), Away/Neutral 17-1-3 (.881)

All Rounds including Final Four
Brandt/McCarty Era (1997-2017): Home 33-5-1 (.859), Away/Neutral 41-2-3 (.924)
10 Titles in 14 Years (2000-2013): Home 25-2-0 (.926), Away/Neutral 37-2-3 (.917)

And Messiah has had just as many close games and close calls at home as away from home. 23% of home NCAA games have gone to OT from 1997 to 2017 versus 24% of neutral and away games.  My guess is the number of games decided by a goal or less would also be very similar home or away.

The fans love having home games, of course.  And the players probably prefer it because of having all their friends and the full crowd there to make it such a special atmosphere.  But in terms of results, home or away doesn't matter much if at all.  I think both Coach Brandt and Coach McCarty have mentioned that from a preparation standpoint, they prefer away games in the tournament because it allows for a more controlled environment with fewer distractions ahead of the games compared to when the players are on campus and sleeping in the dorms the night before.

[blooter442]

Just want to give another shoutout to the color commentator on CWRU's broadcasts. She was fantastic both nights.

[NEsoccerfan]

In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be

BEAUTIFUL stuff. THIS is what soccer is meant to look like - the Messiah, Chicago, Calvin etc. brand. Not that long throw, dump and run nonsense.

NESoccerfan - do you want to expand on this? Are you implying Messiah, Calvin, and Chicago play a certain brand of soccer that Rochester or Tufts does not? I'm not sure who you are referring to with the long throw, dump and run comment (Amherst?).  I have watched Chicago and Tufts play several times this year. They play a very similar brand of futbol. Not only can they knock it around, they can also play direct when the opportunity presents itself and can score off set pieces. I only watched Messiah play Lycoming in the conference final, so I'm not going to draw any conclusions from that one game. I know how good they are. I watched Calvin play all their tournament games and believe they knock it around at a level slightly above the group you mentioned. Just my two cents. At the end of the day, the championship trophy is not awarded for style points. I think any of the Final Four teams left are quite capable of winning the title.

I don't know that I "want to", but I will anyways to clear the air  . I am not implying that Rochester or Tufts do not. My "etc." was intended to cover similar possession-branded teams. Chicago, Calvin, and Messiah were just the first 3 that popped into my head.

As far as Tufts, I completely agree with you. They play some beautiful soccer, and I've been continuously impressed by the ease/speed with which they get the ball from the outside defenders to the target forward (Braun's) feet. This allows them to play a lot of what my former club coach called "in-back-through", which are deadly at EVERY level of soccer. Perhaps why my subconscious didn't jump to Tufts while it did for the others, is that I still think of Tufts as a bigger/physical team, that can play a more direct style if the opponent or game flow dictates it. That, if anything, is a compliment to them and a testament to their versatility.

As far as Rochester, I've only seen them play once a year for the last few years, so it's not fair for me to make a judgment one way or the other. I will say that when I played against them annually a decade or so ago, Rochester's style was more direct than from what I've seen lately.

As far as dump and run, I was hoping to avoid calling out specific teams since that has gotten me into some long-winded discussions lately, but, yes, I was referring to Amherst (and a few others).

[NEsoccerfan]

Yes...I find the preoccupation with "beautiful futbol" in D3 soccer to be somewhat amusing.  This is not La Liga, nor is it year around club soccer.  This is D3 soccer...featuring good, hard working athletes who play a very short regular season leading in to a high pressure "one and done" NCAA tournament.  The object is to win.  If I were a coach, I'd be encouraging athleticism, fearlessness, winning the 50/50s and strong, high pressure defense from front to back.  If you have the time to knock it around and effectively build up an attack...great...but you gotta do what you gotta do when faced with various circumstances in the moment.  And you'd better be adaptable.  It's about effectiveness and not aesthetics...

I completely agree with you. The object is to win and it is absolutely possible to win the whole thing playing an ugly (in my personal opinion) brand of soccer (see national champ Amherst). My comment is just what I, and I think most soccer purists enjoy to watch from strictly an entertainment and love of the game perspective.

[lastguyoffthebench]

Wow.  Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.

According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.

I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.

The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound.  Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away.  Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.

Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful.  But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se.  Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.

https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx

The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).

Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box.  Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down.  Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.

I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play.  I'm curious to hear what other people think. 

Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.

Definitely not a foul on that challenge.    The official isn't in the screen shot, but he was still at the top of the box, in a great position to see the play as it happened.

[NEsoccerfan]

Wow.  Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.

According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.

I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.

The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound.  Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away.  Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.

Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful.  But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se.  Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.

https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx

The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).

Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box.  Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down.  Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.

I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play.  I'm curious to hear what other people think. 

Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.

Great find. Couple notes:
(1) The UR goalie is quite short (but see point 2 below).
(2) I'm not sure what was more impressive, the effort on the header by Nick West or the save by the aforementioned tiny UR goalie. Both were spectacular.
(3) The first goal by UR was absolute CLASS. That requires so much skill and a good dose of luck as well.
(4) The goal by Nick West was straight out of a karate movie. What a flexible/sneaky touch by him on that volley.
(5) I believe it was #10, not #17 on the botched clearance that lead to the game winning goal.
(6) You can't call the game winner a foul. It was a clean challenge.

[MaturinNYC]

Watched the replay of UR-Messiah -- ugh, the UR color commentator drove me nuts. Every time a goal was scored he would interrupt the play-by-play guy to get in a line. Other than that didn't speak much at all, leaving the PBP guy to do the color and PBP himself.

I mostly follow the UAA, and I hear you that the commentary can at times be awkward. Its important to realize that at Rochester they are undergrad students, and often they work several sports and may not even have a soccer background. I've met a couple of them (just a passing conversation on their way to the press box) and i've come to realize that they are nice kids who are - if nothing else - sincere in their desire to do well. Like many of you i also watch a lot of the professional game and i realize i became used to the silky-smooth delivery and effortless insights of those pros (hello Arlo White), but it's just not realistic to carry those expectations here, no matter how similar the settings. I also console myself that it's gotten much better - a couple of years ago there was a young person who cataloged any foul given anywhere on the field as a "penalty kick".  Different schools do it differently - Wash Univ. (at least last year) had a fantastic commentator, as did NYU this year; the Emory guy knew the game but couldn't mask his rooting interest; Chicago had two former players this season who were top shelf - informative with their perspective, even-handed with the criticism, enthusiastic fans of the game, just hands down the best. As "Saint of Old" observed earlier, i'm hoping that as time goes on we get treated to more commentary like Chicago had this year.

[Dave B]

Wow.  Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.

According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.

I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.

The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound.  Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away.  Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.

Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful.  But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se.  Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.

https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx

The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).

Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box.  Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down.  Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.

I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play.  I'm curious to hear what other people think. 

Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.

Great find. Couple notes:
(1) The UR goalie is quite short (but see point 2 below).
(2) I'm not sure what was more impressive, the effort on the header by Nick West or the save by the aforementioned tiny UR goalie. Both were spectacular.
(3) The first goal by UR was absolute CLASS. That requires so much skill and a good dose of luck as well.
(4) The goal by Nick West was straight out of a karate movie. What a flexible/sneaky touch by him on that volley.
(5) I believe it was #10, not #17 on the botched clearance that lead to the game winning goal.
(6) You can't call the game winner a foul. It was a clean challenge.

Totally agree on 1 - 5 (5 - that's what I get for not watching it full screen (or on a bigger screen) and my apologies to Mr. Fitz.)
6 - Maybe I wasn't clear, but I wasn't calling it a foul.  I'm not trying to take anything away from Rochester at all.  Just wasn't clear on the rule *on what was allowable contact) and wanted to see what people thought.

[NEsoccerfan]

Wow.  Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.

According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.

I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.

The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound.  Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away.  Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.

Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful.  But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se.  Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.

https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx

The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).

Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box.  Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down.  Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.

I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play.  I'm curious to hear what other people think. 

Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.

Great find. Couple notes:
(1) The UR goalie is quite short (but see point 2 below).
(2) I'm not sure what was more impressive, the effort on the header by Nick West or the save by the aforementioned tiny UR goalie. Both were spectacular.
(3) The first goal by UR was absolute CLASS. That requires so much skill and a good dose of luck as well.
(4) The goal by Nick West was straight out of a karate movie. What a flexible/sneaky touch by him on that volley.
(5) I believe it was #10, not #17 on the botched clearance that lead to the game winning goal.
(6) You can't call the game winner a foul. It was a clean challenge.

Totally agree on 1 - 5 (5 - that's what I get for not watching it full screen (or on a bigger screen) and my apologies to Mr. Fitz.)
6 - Maybe I wasn't clear, but I wasn't calling it a foul.  I'm not trying to take anything away from Rochester at all.  Just wasn't clear on the rule *on what was allowable contact) and wanted to see what people thought.

I should clarify when I said "you" I did not mean you. I meant a random person watching the video (in my opinion, which is fallible!).