2019 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

Started by PaulNewman, August 26, 2019, 08:24:35 PM

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Gregory Sager

I saw it appear online in late September, and it's now November 4, so I'm using the word "months" a bit elastically. :D

As for the field not being raised to 63 teams in the past, I think it was Dave McHugh over on the men's basketball section of d3boards.com who said that he'd been told by an NCAA official that field size in the postseason tournament of any given sport only goes up by increments of two, presumably for reasons of bracket balance.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Shooter McGavin

Shooter's Power Rankings
1. Amherst
2. Calvin
3. Tufts
4. Messiah
5. Oneonta
6. Kenyon
7. Hopkins
8. Chicago
9. RPI
10. F&M
-------------------------
11. John Carroll
12. Roanoke
13. Conn College
14. Central
15. W&L
16. Luther
17. CNU
18. Loras
19. Middlebury
-------------------------
20. Catholic
21. Centre
22. Swarthmore
23. North Park
24. Mary Wash
25. St. Thomas
RV: Brandeis, Williams, St. Joes (Me), Ithaca, Rochester, Ogelthorpe, Ramapo, Ohio Northern, PSU-Behrend, Kalamazoo, Gustavus Adolphus, St. Norbert, Trinity (Tx)

Mid-Atlantic Fan

Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 04, 2019, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2019, 12:34:45 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 04, 2019, 10:03:50 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 03, 2019, 05:41:42 PM
With only a week of pre tournament soccer left who are the four favorites for 1 seeds and home field until the final four. Given the expansion to 64 there will be no more first round byes so being the top 2 seeds is less consequential. 

I think as of now it is:
New England + New York bracket-Amherst
New England+New Jersey+Pennsylvania-Tufts/JHU+F&M
Midwest 1 (Greater Chicago + Michigan): Calvin
Midwest 2 (Ohio+ Iowa+Maybe texas/california: JCU + Kenyon

Its always hard to predict with geography playing such a role but this is my best bet.

When did it jump from 62 to 64? I have not seen this changed noted anywhere for this year.

See page 17 of the Pre-Championships 2019-20 Manual. It's been out for months now.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/soccer/d3/common/2019-20D3XSO_PreChampsManual.pdf

Months might be an exaggeration, . . . at least for the general public as the manual is typically only available on-line in very late-September or in October.  And this year was no different.  And that's why I did not mention this change in the What's New in 2019? article on D3soccer.com back at the beginning of the season.  I think the numbers would have allowed them 63 teams last year, but for some reason it stayed at 62.  The D-III Manual specifies an access ratio of about 6.5, which gives some flexibility, but traditionally they have rounded down to arrive at the size of the tournament field.  This year they rounded up to reach the full, maximum 64-team field.

Great info thank you!  ;D

Mid-Atlantic Fan

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 04, 2019, 03:11:50 PM
Shooter's Power Rankings
1. Amherst
2. Calvin
3. Tufts
4. Messiah
5. Oneonta
6. Kenyon
7. Hopkins
8. Chicago
9. RPI
10. F&M
-------------------------
11. John Carroll
12. Roanoke
13. Conn College
14. Central
15. W&L
16. Luther
17. CNU
18. Loras
19. Middlebury
-------------------------
20. Catholic
21. Centre
22. Swarthmore
23. North Park
24. Mary Wash
25. St. Thomas
RV: Brandeis, Williams, St. Joes (Me), Ithaca, Rochester, Ogelthorpe, Ramapo, Ohio Northern, PSU-Behrend, Kalamazoo, Gustavus Adolphus, St. Norbert, Trinity (Tx)

MAF Top 25
1. Amherst
2. Calvin
3. Messiah
4. Tufts
5. Kenyon
6. Oneonta
7. Hopkins
8. W&L
9. F&M
10. Chicago
11. John Carroll
12. CNU
13. Middlebury
14. RPI
15. Conn College
16. Roanoke
17. PSU Behrend
18. Catholic
19. Mary Wash
20. St. Joe's (Me)
21. Ogelthorpe
22. Central
23. Ramapo
24. Ohio Wesleyan
25. Ithaca

Gregory Sager

An interesting development is taking place in the SLIAC. This school year the member schools of the league instituted new sportsmanship rules penalizing teams that draw excessive sportsmanship infractions in their various sports (ejections in baseball and softball, Class A technical fouls in men's and women's basketball, etc.). In men's and women's soccer, the new rule instituted by the SLIAC is that any team that has accumulated 35 yellow cards or more cannot take part in the league's postseason tournament.

Right away this has had an impact. Iowa Wesleyan, which has either 36 or 40 yellows (depending upon whether you're looking at the SLIAC stats or the explanatory tweet sent out by IWU), has been disqualified from appearing in the SLIAC tourney. This is pretty significant, as the Tigers won the SLIAC title with an 8-0-1 record this season. Instead, Principia (7-2 in SLIAC play) will be the #1 seed in the SLIAC tourney. Since Iowa Wesleyan's chances of drawing a Pool C berth are nonexistent, the season is over for the Tigers.

IWU appealed the decision, but the appeal was denied.

To the best of my knowledge, the SLIAC is the first and only league in D3 to have implemented sportsmanship rules of this nature.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Yes - as Sager indicated, the NCAA (Division III committees essentially) rather have brackets increase in size via even numbers for bracket balance and other things. They don't like adding one this year, adding one next year, adding ... etc. Just works easier that way.

There are exceptions especially for rapidly growing sports (see lacrosse) where sometimes the addition has to come a bit quicker and not perfectly, but that doesn't tend to be one team at a time. The other exception would also be if the addition one is seen as the only addition for a bit of time - like three or four years - something they can easily see coming in terms of membership. They wouldn't punish the sport to add one when the next addition might not come for four or five years.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

jknezek

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 05, 2019, 03:00:19 PM
An interesting development is taking place in the SLIAC. This school year the member schools of the league instituted new sportsmanship rules penalizing teams that draw excessive sportsmanship infractions in their various sports (ejections in baseball and softball, Class A technical fouls in men's and women's basketball, etc.). In men's and women's soccer, the new rule instituted by the SLIAC is that any team that has accumulated 35 yellow cards or more cannot take part in the league's postseason tournament.

Right away this has had an impact. Iowa Wesleyan, which has either 36 or 40 yellows (depending upon whether you're looking at the SLIAC stats or the explanatory tweet sent out by IWU), has been disqualified from appearing in the SLIAC tourney. This is pretty significant, as the Tigers won the SLIAC title with an 8-0-1 record this season. Instead, Principia (7-2 in SLIAC play) will be the #1 seed in the SLIAC tourney. Since Iowa Wesleyan's chances of drawing a Pool C berth are nonexistent, the season is over for the Tigers.

IWU appealed the decision, but the appeal was denied.

To the best of my knowledge, the SLIAC is the first and only league in D3 to have implemented sportsmanship rules of this nature.

Never a fan of blanket rules like this. Yellow cards aren't necessarily bad sportsmanship plays. I generally led my youth club and h.s. teams in yellow cards, I also was, at least at the time, what was called the "marking back." I was always assigned man to man on the opposing team's best offensive mid or striker. Not a style of play you see very often anymore, but most of my youth coaches learned soccer, if they even bothered to learn anything, from VHS tapes. I would say I played hard, but I didn't play with bad sportsmanship. I never received a straight red but I racked up a lot of professional fouls. It's part of the game as a defender. That's why yellows are given, as warnings.

Flying Weasel

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 05, 2019, 03:00:19 PM
An interesting development is taking place in the SLIAC. This school year the member schools of the league instituted new sportsmanship rules penalizing teams that draw excessive sportsmanship infractions in their various sports (ejections in baseball and softball, Class A technical fouls in men's and women's basketball, etc.). In men's and women's soccer, the new rule instituted by the SLIAC is that any team that has accumulated 35 yellow cards or more cannot take part in the league's postseason tournament.

Right away this has had an impact. Iowa Wesleyan, which has either 36 or 40 yellows (depending upon whether you're looking at the SLIAC stats or the explanatory tweet sent out by IWU), has been disqualified from appearing in the SLIAC tourney. This is pretty significant, as the Tigers won the SLIAC title with an 8-0-1 record this season. Instead, Principia (7-2 in SLIAC play) will be the #1 seed in the SLIAC tourney. Since Iowa Wesleyan's chances of drawing a Pool C berth are nonexistent, the season is over for the Tigers.

IWU appealed the decision, but the appeal was denied.

To the best of my knowledge, the SLIAC is the first and only league in D3 to have implemented sportsmanship rules of this nature.

Wow!  That is very interesting.

From the SLIAC Sportsmanship Guidelines
QuoteTeam Sportsmanship Guidelines
Soccer----Maximum accumulated number of institution cards allowed before a team is disqualified from SLIAC
post-season play.       35 - Yellow cards      8 - Red Cards

Not quite sure how to interpret the combined yellow and red cards limits.  Does a team with 35 yellows and 8 reds get to play in the tournament, but a team with 36 yellows and no reds does not?  That doesn't seem fair or logical.  And I wonder how double yellows in a game that result in a red are counted: as two yellows or as one red?  Certainly not as two yellows and one red, right?

Given that different schools play a different number of non-conference games, shouldn't the limit be an average number per game?

BTW, the SLIAC stats do not include stats from Iowa Wesleyan's three games against non-Division III opponents.  They picked up 5 yellow cards in those games. Iowa Wesleyan had seven games in which they picked up 3 to 5 yellow cards.

Looking nationally, according to the NCAA statistics (which often has missing and/or duplicate box scores), seven men's teams have accumulated more yellow cards than Iowa Wesleyan and 21 total teams have exceeded the 35 yellow card threshold as of Sunday, November 4th.  The most red cards for a team is five.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/soccer-men/d3/current/team/545
YELLOW CARDS
Last updated November 5, 2019 - Through games November 4, 2019
1   Rowan  48
2   Neumann  45
-   Piedmont  45
4   Cobleskill St.  44
5   Salisbury  42
6   Greensboro  41
7   Minn.-Morris  40
8   Iowa Wesleyan  39
9   Muskingum  38
10 Rutgers-Camden  37
-  Alvernia  37
-  Muhlenberg  37
-  La Roche  37
-  Huntingdon  37
-  Lasell  37
16 Beloit  36
-  Capital  36
-  Kean  36
-  Curry  36
-  Ozarks (AR)  36
-  Ferrum  36


Buddham

35 cautions (or 8 reds) over a season for a team is plenty of leeway for the occasional tactical foul. League might also have (or consider having) a per player limit before a suspension. How the team exceeded 30 cautions and didn't rein themselves in is entirely on them. Perhaps they forgot about the new rule?

Hopkins92

Given the vagaries of refereeing styles, and as mentioned the variance in the number of out of conference games... Seems like a tally that sticks to conference games would be the most logical and fair.


Flying Weasel

#205
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 05, 2019, 03:05:10 PM
Yes - as Sager indicated, the NCAA (Division III committees essentially) rather have brackets increase in size via even numbers for bracket balance and other things. They don't like adding one this year, adding one next year, adding ... etc. Just works easier that way.

There are exceptions especially for rapidly growing sports (see lacrosse) where sometimes the addition has to come a bit quicker and not perfectly, but that doesn't tend to be one team at a time. The other exception would also be if the addition one is seen as the only addition for a bit of time - like three or four years - something they can easily see coming in terms of membership. They wouldn't punish the sport to add one when the next addition might not come for four or five years.

Division III Men's Soccer Tournament Field Size (2005-2015)
(since tournament field was expanded, i.e. the 6.5 access ratio was implemented, starting in 2005)
2005  -  57-team field
2006  -  57
2007  -  57
2008  -  58
2009  -  59
2010  -  60
2011  -  61
2012  -  62
2013  -  61
2014  -  61
2015  -  61
2016  -  62
2017  -  62
2018  -  62
2019  -  64

So there's been an odd (unbalanced???) number of teams over half the time.  And they didn't have a problem with adding (or subtracting) just one team per year looking at 2007 thru 2013.  They could have stepped up by two every other year during that stretch, but did not.

The "unbalance", if you want to call it that, lasts for the first round only, of a 6-round tournament.  I don't see what the big deal would be with an odd number of teams and byes, and why they'd want to avoid it.  And it doesn't seem they have avoided it.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2019, 03:46:51 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 05, 2019, 03:00:19 PM
An interesting development is taking place in the SLIAC. This school year the member schools of the league instituted new sportsmanship rules penalizing teams that draw excessive sportsmanship infractions in their various sports (ejections in baseball and softball, Class A technical fouls in men's and women's basketball, etc.). In men's and women's soccer, the new rule instituted by the SLIAC is that any team that has accumulated 35 yellow cards or more cannot take part in the league's postseason tournament.

Right away this has had an impact. Iowa Wesleyan, which has either 36 or 40 yellows (depending upon whether you're looking at the SLIAC stats or the explanatory tweet sent out by IWU), has been disqualified from appearing in the SLIAC tourney. This is pretty significant, as the Tigers won the SLIAC title with an 8-0-1 record this season. Instead, Principia (7-2 in SLIAC play) will be the #1 seed in the SLIAC tourney. Since Iowa Wesleyan's chances of drawing a Pool C berth are nonexistent, the season is over for the Tigers.

IWU appealed the decision, but the appeal was denied.

To the best of my knowledge, the SLIAC is the first and only league in D3 to have implemented sportsmanship rules of this nature.

Wow!  That is very interesting.

From the SLIAC Sportsmanship Guidelines
QuoteTeam Sportsmanship Guidelines
Soccer----Maximum accumulated number of institution cards allowed before a team is disqualified from SLIAC
post-season play.       35 - Yellow cards      8 - Red Cards

Not quite sure how to interpret the combined yellow and red cards limits.  Does a team with 35 yellows and 8 reds get to play in the tournament, but a team with 36 yellows and no reds does not?  That doesn't seem fair or logical.

The disqualification meted out to the Tigers indicates that there's no crossover in terms of card types. The rule is either 35 yellows or eight reds; no combination thereof is involved. The SLIAC explicitly disqualified IWU on the basis of the yellow-card accumulation.

Iowa Wesleyan, incidentally, has picked up only one red card this season. The two national leaders in this dubious category are Mitchell and Neumann, who, as you noted, have five apiece.

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2019, 03:46:51 PMAnd I wonder how double yellows in a game that result in a red are counted: as two yellows or as one red?  Certainly not as two yellows and one red, right?

I didn't see anything specific about that, but my guess is that a double-yellow DQ is considered a yellow and a red by the SLIAC, since that's how it reads in the scorebook.

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2019, 03:46:51 PMGiven that different schools play a different number of non-conference games, shouldn't the limit be an average number per game?

That sounds reasonable.

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2019, 03:46:51 PMBTW, the SLIAC stats do not include stats from Iowa Wesleyan's three games against non-Division III opponents.  They picked up 5 yellow cards in those games. Iowa Wesleyan had seven games in which they picked up 3 to 5 yellow cards.

Looking nationally, according to the NCAA statistics (which often has missing and/or duplicate box scores), seven men's teams have accumulated more yellow cards than Iowa Wesleyan and 21 total teams have exceeded the 35 yellow card threshold as of Sunday, November 4th.  The most red cards for a team is five.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/soccer-men/d3/current/team/545
YELLOW CARDS
Last updated November 5, 2019 - Through games November 4, 2019
1   Rowan  48
2   Neumann  45
-   Piedmont  45
4   Cobleskill St.  44
5   Salisbury  42
6   Greensboro  41
7   Minn.-Morris  40
8   Iowa Wesleyan  39
9   Muskingum  38
10 Rutgers-Camden  37
-  Alvernia  37
-  Muhlenberg  37
-  La Roche  37
-  Huntingdon  37
-  Lasell  37
16 Beloit  36
-  Capital  36
-  Kean  36
-  Curry  36
-  Ozarks (AR)  36
-  Ferrum  36

I'm curious as to whether or not this new rule is going to catch on elsewhere. It does seem to me that, if it is going to be emulated by other leagues, it ouoght to be tweaked a little, at least as far as men's soccer is concerned.

Quote from: Buddham on November 05, 2019, 03:51:20 PM
35 cautions (or 8 reds) over a season for a team is plenty of leeway for the occasional tactical foul. League might also have (or consider having) a per player limit before a suspension. How the team exceeded 30 cautions and didn't rein themselves in is entirely on them. Perhaps they forgot about the new rule?

Given the fact that Iowa Wesleyan is clearly the best team in the league -- after all, the Tigers won the league by a game and a half -- I agree that the onus is on the Tigers for not adjusting their play (or their demeanor) to the new rule later on in the season, when IWU was in the driver's seat in the standings but was coming dangerously close to the 35-yellow suspension line.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2019, 03:51:34 PM
Given the vagaries of refereeing styles, and as mentioned the variance in the number of out of conference games... Seems like a tally that sticks to conference games would be the most logical and fair.

In terms of tweaking the rule, that seems by far the most sensible adjustment.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2019, 04:07:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 05, 2019, 03:05:10 PM
Yes - as Sager indicated, the NCAA (Division III committees essentially) rather have brackets increase in size via even numbers for bracket balance and other things. They don't like adding one this year, adding one next year, adding ... etc. Just works easier that way.

There are exceptions especially for rapidly growing sports (see lacrosse) where sometimes the addition has to come a bit quicker and not perfectly, but that doesn't tend to be one team at a time. The other exception would also be if the addition one is seen as the only addition for a bit of time - like three or four years - something they can easily see coming in terms of membership. They wouldn't punish the sport to add one when the next addition might not come for four or five years.

Division III Men's Soccer Tournament Field Size (2005-2015)
(since tournament field was expanded, i.e. the 6.5 access ratio was implemented, starting in 2005)
2005  -  57-team field
2006  -  57
2007  -  57
2008  -  58
2009  -  59
2010  -  60
2011  -  61
2012  -  62
2013  -  61
2014  -  61
2015  -  61
2016  -  62
2017  -  62
2018  -  62
2019  -  64

So there's been an odd (unbalanced???) number of teams over half the time.  And they didn't have a problem with adding (or subtracting) just one team per year looking at 2007 thru 2013.  They could have stepped up by two every other year during that stretch, but did not.

The "unbalance", if you want to call it that, lasts for the first round only, of a 6-round tournament.  I don't see what the big deal would be with an odd number of teams and byes, and why they'd want to avoid it.  And it doesn't seem they have avoided it.
The additions to the brackets has been more of a recent development - say the last five years - because bids were just being added for the smallest of reasons. However, even in your example there are periods of time where the addition of one made sense. Between 2013 and last season just one team was added which helped get the bracket to an even number as well. But that is a six year period before we saw two additions.

But you also show why throwing a bid in there wasn't probably the best idea. From 2008 to 2012 a single bid was added each year. Maybe there was good reason for that, but in 2013 they had to retract a bid. When you look at membership even sport-specific one can see the trends of increase or decrease in numbers. If they had that thinking in 2011-2013 I would contend they would have never gotten to 62 thus immediately removing a bid the next year.

That also adds confusion to the entire process. "Wait, I thought the bracket was at 62? What happened?!"

Every time a bid is added, there are significant costs added to the bracket. One can save on costs if the bids are added strategically or sensibly - not just thrown because the math comes close to allowing it. When looking at membership and sponsorship, usually we all can see if addition and even subtraction is needed. Sure, the subtraction is sometimes harder to see coming, but you can build that in if necessary in the math.

Again, the decision to calm down additional bids is more of a recent way of thinking - and it is a division-wide thinking for all sports. It comes because of things like what you showed between 2012 and 2014. It also comes because at that time DIII went through a budget surplus to a deficit almost in the blink of an eye and serious questions of how the money was being spent had to be asked. Questions like: do we simply throw bids to sports whenever they get close to the sponsorship number or do we make sure we make smart decisions with those total bids.

Men's basketball went through it a few years ago. There was an argument to be made that the bracket could be at 63. The NCAA (Division III specifically) held off knowing they would go to 64 the next season (if memory serves). It would both help keep the bracket balanced, allow for the surprise of losing membership, and allow for budgets to be ready for the change.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2019, 04:07:02 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 05, 2019, 03:05:10 PM
Yes - as Sager indicated, the NCAA (Division III committees essentially) rather have brackets increase in size via even numbers for bracket balance and other things. They don't like adding one this year, adding one next year, adding ... etc. Just works easier that way.

There are exceptions especially for rapidly growing sports (see lacrosse) where sometimes the addition has to come a bit quicker and not perfectly, but that doesn't tend to be one team at a time. The other exception would also be if the addition one is seen as the only addition for a bit of time - like three or four years - something they can easily see coming in terms of membership. They wouldn't punish the sport to add one when the next addition might not come for four or five years.

Division III Men's Soccer Tournament Field Size (2005-2015)
(since tournament field was expanded, i.e. the 6.5 access ratio was implemented, starting in 2005)
2005  -  57-team field
2006  -  57
2007  -  57
2008  -  58
2009  -  59
2010  -  60
2011  -  61
2012  -  62
2013  -  61
2014  -  61
2015  -  61
2016  -  62
2017  -  62
2018  -  62
2019  -  64

So there's been an odd (unbalanced???) number of teams over half the time.  And they didn't have a problem with adding (or subtracting) just one team per year looking at 2007 thru 2013.  They could have stepped up by two every other year during that stretch, but did not.

The "unbalance", if you want to call it that, lasts for the first round only, of a 6-round tournament.  I don't see what the big deal would be with an odd number of teams and byes, and why they'd want to avoid it.  And it doesn't seem they have avoided it.

My impression is that it's a recently-implemented D3 policy.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if D3 tournament budget allotments have something to do with this, too, since, as D-Mac indicated, there's an "other things" apart from the issue of bracket balance.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

And, once again, someone says what I was about to say a few seconds quicker than I did. ;)

(Since D-Mac's the one who talked to the committee members and/or NCAA officials about this issue, I naturally defer to him, anyway.)
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell