2019 Pool C

[smedindy]

Nope. Win your league and you're in. That's your job one. Don't need 'extra' access for those that didn't win their league. They had their chance.

[jamtod]

Nope. Win your league and you're in. That's your job one. Don't need 'extra' access for those that didn't win their league. They had their chance.

Step 1. Kick out the team that's won the league 6 of the last 9 years.
Step 2. ??
Step 3. Profit!

[wally_wabash]

Nope. Win your league and you're in. That's your job one. Don't need 'extra' access for those that didn't win their league. They had their chance.

Step 1. Kick out the team that's won the league 6 of the last 9 years.
Step 2. ??
Step 3. Profit!

I see you know the Pool A gnomes. 

[OzJohnnie]

Nope. Win your league and you're in. That's your job one. Don't need 'extra' access for those that didn't win their league. They had their chance.

Step 1. Kick out the team that's won the league 6 of the last 9 years.
Step 2. ??
Step 3. Profit!

Step 0. Identify the team who can no longer buy their way to the top. Proceed with step 1.

[smedindy]

Nope. Win your league and you're in. That's your job one. Don't need 'extra' access for those that didn't win their league. They had their chance.

Step 1. Kick out the team that's won the league 6 of the last 9 years.
Step 2. ??
Step 3. Profit!

Step 0. Identify the team who can no longer buy their way to the top. Proceed with step 1.

Step 0.25 - Educate others on fundraising, endowments, and priorities based on a strategic plan and a plan to maintain enrollment through the upcoming dip in HS graduates.
Step 0.33 - Compare scores between lesser lights in other leagues and the traditional powers.
Step 0.5 - Idenfity the sour grape fan bases and root against them fervently, even if they want their daughter in MN to go to St. Ben's.
Step 0.75 - Use Denison as a case in point - growing a football program without compromising high academic standards and traditional rivals.

[smedindy]

For those that felt they were snubbed from a Pool C bid, well....play better next year.

Seems like this is an argument we could apply to a 4/5-loss ECFC team a heck of a lot easier than we can to a 9-1 team

Nope. They had their chance, and why punish a conference champ so the have-conferences can deny a bid to a have-not.

32 teams is a perfect number, along with a 10-game schedule, for D3. No byes. Teams are encouraged to join conferences by the pool system as well (and the min. requirement for teams) which eases scheduling and allows for most teams to have entirely D3 schedules. (Some don't, I know, and that happens).

I don't want to deny a team that won their league and played a tough non-conference game or two a route to the playoffs even if they are 8-0, 8-2 or something like that.

[DuffMan]

Nope. Win your league and you're in. That's your job one. Don't need 'extra' access for those that didn't win their league. They had their chance.

Step 1. Kick out the team that's won the league 6 of the last 9 1 of the last 3 years.
Step 2. ??
Step 3. Profit!

Fixed that for you.  Let's not live in the past. 

[Pat Coleman]

Let's not live in the past -- followed by a massive footer of items from the past.

[DuffMan]

Let's not live in the past -- followed by a massive footer of items from the past.

Pat, you're just full of zingers this week!!! 

[jamtod]

Let's not live in the past -- followed by a massive footer of items from the past.

The beautiful irony would have been alive and well even without the footer.

[Captainred81]

I for one appreciate the way the system is set up now.  Everyone keeps saying that there are teams left at home who could win one or two games, but who would those games be against if the MASCAC winner, or NACC or ECFC or SCIAC winners were not invited to the dance?  St. Thomas could certainly beat Aurora of Gallaudet, they might even be able to beat Wartburg. 

Hypothetically,  lets say we leave Aurora out this year because of past performance(or whatever) and St. Thomas gets in, instead.  Now we match St. Thomas up with Wheaton in the first round, instead of matching up Wheaton with Aurora.  Let's say Wheaton beats St. Thomas.  35-24.  St. Thomas goes home.  Is that better than allowing Aurora to match up against Wheaton just because we think that score would more lopsided, like 45-3?  In this case, St. Thomas gets rewarded for going 7-3 and finishing 3rd in their power conference, based on previous year's results, and Aurora get penalized for having the best season that it has had in a while. 

I think it's not right.  The only way these additional pool C team win 1-2 games is if they get the right match up.  Which would be against the pool A bids from less competitive conferences. 

matching Hobart up against Mount in the first round because we think Hobart would beat the ECFC winner is silly.  The out come is still the same.

***Disclaimer*** Everything in this post is hypothetical.  Replace teams or conference with whomever you think would fit.

[art76]

I for one appreciate the way the system is set up now.  Everyone keeps saying that there are teams left at home who could win one or two games, but who would those games be against if the MASCAC winner, or NACC or ECFC or SCIAC winners were not invited to the dance?  St. Thomas could certainly beat Aurora of Gallaudet, they might even be able to beat Wartburg. 

Hypothetically,  lets say we leave Aurora out this year because of past performance(or whatever) and St. Thomas gets in, instead.  Now we match St. Thomas up with Wheaton in the first round, instead of matching up Wheaton with Aurora.  Let's say Wheaton beats St. Thomas.  35-24.  St. Thomas goes home.  Is that better than allowing Aurora to match up against Wheaton just because we think that score would more lopsided, like 45-3?  In this case, St. Thomas gets rewarded for going 7-3 and finishing 3rd in their power conference, based on previous year's results, and Aurora get penalized for having the best season that it has had in a while. 

I think it's not right.  The only way these additional pool C team win 1-2 games is if they get the right match up.  Which would be against the pool A bids from less competitive conferences.

matching Hobart up against Mount in the first round because we think Hobart would beat the ECFC winner is silly.  The out come is still the same.

***Disclaimer*** Everything in this post is hypothetical.  Replace teams or conference with whomever you think would fit.

This argument makes the most sense to me from what has been said lately about the whole process. I have been pondering just how to say something similar and you beat me to the punch. Perhaps I am too fatalistic in my approach to life, but under the current system (which by the way, to me, doesn't seem to be broken) if you don't win your conference - it sucks to be you. Now your fate is in someone else's hands. That's not how I live my life, or at least I think I don't - that is, in the hands of another person.

But back to the discussion, as CR81 has so eloquently put it, switching out who gets beat in the first couple of rounds is just a shell game. Any team that makes it to the final 8 teams standing is a good team that season. Those that lost in earlier rounds can always point back to what "could have happened" if the ball bounced their way. I'd rather it be a conference champ muttering those words, than a really strong third place team from another conference.

[USee]

Pat and Wally have posted their Mock Regional Rankings on the front page and its a great read. Really well done. Using that data, the current  Pool C picture is interesting (it will change dramatically):

East:
Salisbury 6-0, .524, 1-0
Ithaca 7-0, .500, 0-0
Cortland 7-0, .469, 0-0
Wesley 5-1, .626, 2-1 +
Delaware Valley 7-1, .545, 0-1
Union 7-0, .450, 0-0
Western New England 6-0, .502, 0-0 -
WPI 7-0, .425, 0-0
Endicott 6-1, .456, 0-1
Brockport 6-1, .497, 0-0

North:
Mount Union 7-0, .571, 2-0
Wheaton 7-0, .644, 2-0
Hope 6-1, .548, 2-0
North Central 6-1, .536, 1-1
Baldwin Wallace 6-1, .511, 0-1
Aurora 6-1, .516, 0-1
John Carroll 6-1, .489, 0-1
Olivet 6-1, .528, 0-1
Washington U. 5-2, .573, 0-2
Wabash 5-2, .523, 1-0

South:
UMHB 7-0, .431, 1-0
Muhlenberg 7-0, .567, 1-0
Texas Lutheran 5-1, .570, 1-1
Susquehanna 6-1, .601, 0-1
Case Western Reserve 7-0, .477, 0-0
Bridgewater 7-0, .478, 0-0
Hardin-Simmons 5-2, .565, 0-2
Randolph-Macon 6-1, .566, 0-0
Berry 7-1, .491, 1-0
Hendrix 4-2, .603, 1-1 +

West:
St. John's 7-0, .597, 2-0
UW-Whitewater 6-0, .560, 1-0
Chapman 6-0, .522, 1-0
Wartburg 7-0, .559, 0-0
Redlands 6-1, .653 1-1
UW-Platteville 5-1, .634, 1-1
Bethel 6-1, .615, 1-1
Linfield 5-1, .501, 0-1
UW-La Crosse 5-1, .559, 0-1 -
Gustavus Adolphus 5-2, .542, 0-2



Obviously in the East Ithaca still has to play Cortland and Union  so that picture could change a lot. Right now Wesley is the top Pool C bid. In the North you have NCC and the BW/JCU winner. South has Susquehanna (and if UMHB loses to TLU its chaos there). The West is most interesting because D3.com has Bethel as the 3rd potential Pool C and that's a precarious position to be with only 5 spots.

The Pool C table would be stacked like this:
Wesley, Union/Cortland/WNE
NCC, JCU/BW
Susquehanna, RMU
Redlands, UWP, Bethel

This Pool C situation looks brutal this year.

[wally_wabash]

The Pool C table would be stacked like this:
Wesley, Union/Cortland/WNE
NCC, JCU/BW
Susquehanna, RMU
Redlands, UWP, Bethel

This Pool C situation looks brutal this year.

In the east, I think Union, with a loss, is probably not a Pool C contender.  They'll get SOS help, but without an RRO win, I think they're on the wrong side of the bubble.  WNE is in a similar position- if they lose to Endicott it's hard to see where they have profile points to get one of the five golden tickets.  I think your two legitimate C candidates in the East are Wesley and then either 9-1 Ithaca (loss to Union, win vs. Cortland) or 9-1 Cortland (loss to Brockport, win vs. Ithaca). 

In the South you've got Susquehanna and then Bridgewater if they lose to RMC.  RMC will not be a C contender if they lose the ODAC.  If Birmingham-Southern runs out the string and gets the SAA AQ, Berry may be the South's next best at-large option when we get to selection Sunday. 

And you're right, the West is, per usual, loaded with great runners up.  Bethel and Platteville have significant challenges left, though so that may thin itself out before we get to the end. 

[USee]

The Pool C table would be stacked like this:
Wesley, Union/Cortland/WNE
NCC, JCU/BW
Susquehanna, RMU
Redlands, UWP, Bethel

This Pool C situation looks brutal this year.

In the east, I think Union, with a loss, is probably not a Pool C contender.  They'll get SOS help, but without an RRO win, I think they're on the wrong side of the bubble.  WNE is in a similar position- if they lose to Endicott it's hard to see where they have profile points to get one of the five golden tickets.  I think your two legitimate C candidates in the East are Wesley and then either 9-1 Ithaca (loss to Union, win vs. Cortland) or 9-1 Cortland (loss to Brockport, win vs. Ithaca). 

In the South you've got Susquehanna and then Bridgewater if they lose to RMC.  RMC will not be a C contender if they lose the ODAC.  If Birmingham-Southern runs out the string and gets the SAA AQ, Berry may be the South's next best at-large option when we get to selection Sunday. 

And you're right, the West is, per usual, loaded with great runners up.  Bethel and Platteville have significant challenges left, though so that may thin itself out before we get to the end.

You are right that this could sort itself out over the next few weeks. It also could go from bad to worse if some of the front runners lose and fall into Pool C.