2019 Pool C

[retagent]

I agree that there could be less finger wagging and more sympathy for teams buried behind national elites in certain leagues, but I don't think it's reason to blow up the divisional philosophy for championship access.

Blow up? Or tweak?

[retagent]

I agree that there could be less finger wagging and more sympathy for teams buried behind national elites in certain leagues, but I don't think it's reason to blow up the divisional philosophy for championship access.

Blow up? Or tweak?

Actually, the quote I was addressing was from Wally Wabash. I just screwed up when deleting a lot of unwanted verbiage and am too lazy to go back and correct.

[wally_wabash]

I agree that there could be less finger wagging and more sympathy for teams buried behind national elites in certain leagues, but I don't think it's reason to blow up the divisional philosophy for championship access.

Blow up? Or tweak?

Semantics, right?  If the endgame for hazzben's tweaks is to take tournament access away from conferences that don't meet an arbitrary standard and redistribute them to conferences that have good teams that the tournament isn't big enough to accommodate, then you're circumventing the whole point of the automatic qualifying process that we've had for 20 years. 

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

In addition, there is a hard cap by legislative vote on the football playoffs at 32 teams.

What happens if somewhere down the road (would take a bunch more teams joining and probably some musical chairs creating a new conference or two) we end up with 30 pool A and 2 pool C? 32/0? 33/-1? I'm sure it'd be a slow climb to get to that point so there'd be time to address it before it's an emergency but at what point would it need to be dealt with?

[Inkblot]

In addition, there is a hard cap by legislative vote on the football playoffs at 32 teams.

To add on to this point, if that cap didn't exist, the field size would be 36 per the standard D3 rule of one spot for every 6.5 teams.

[WW]

About play-in games and the logistics -- there's a ton of issues with adding a week all the way around. We can't really start a week earlier because it's a burden to house all of those student-athletes on campus for an additional week before classes start. We don't want to go a week later because of the holidays. We don't want to go after Jan. 1 because of the expense, and because there are still some two-sport athletes (and even if there aren't, we don't want to make it impossible). We can't play games more than once every seven days.

In addition, there is a hard cap by legislative vote on the football playoffs at 32 teams.

Well, you could just take the early game start out of their camp time and give up the scrimmage. That way there's no extra week of housing student-athletes. Or give up the bye week. And going a week later only affects two teams. The holidays are when they are, but all the D1s playing bowl games figure a way around that.

THAT said, I realize there would be some violation of general D3 principles by doing any of the above. And the rewards of a D1 bowl game will surely cover the costs of an extra week of housing, whereas the rewards of the Stagg Bowl are considerably less likely to do so. And you'll probably get some blowback from the Poulan Weedeaters of the world, whose bowl sponsorship that holiday week is probably secured with an offer of TV time exclusivity.

So while play-in games might make for a better tournament, I guess I'm not really an advocate.

[AO]

In addition, there is a hard cap by legislative vote on the football playoffs at 32 teams.

What happens if somewhere down the road (would take a bunch more teams joining and probably some musical chairs creating a new conference or two) we end up with 30 pool A and 2 pool C? 32/0? 33/-1? I'm sure it'd be a slow climb to get to that point so there'd be time to address it before it's an emergency but at what point would it need to be dealt with?

32/0 would be the ideal system.  Every conference game would be a playoff game. 

[wally_wabash]

In addition, there is a hard cap by legislative vote on the football playoffs at 32 teams.

What happens if somewhere down the road (would take a bunch more teams joining and probably some musical chairs creating a new conference or two) we end up with 30 pool A and 2 pool C? 32/0? 33/-1? I'm sure it'd be a slow climb to get to that point so there'd be time to address it before it's an emergency but at what point would it need to be dealt with?

32/0 would be the ideal system.  Every conference game would be a playoff game.

Totally agree.  A conference championship being a prerequisite for a national championship makes all of the sense. 

[Ithaca798891]

32/0 would be the ideal system.  Every conference game would be a playoff game.

I'd be interested to see what would happen to OOC games in that scenario. Do good teams seek each other out, because there's less to lose?

Heck, maybe there's no reason to even have OOC games in that case. Given what we know about the physical toll the game takes on players, the small rosters some schools deal with, and the budget concerns a lot of schools are dealing with, perhaps, if the other games have no bearing on the postseason, it makes sense to get rid of them.

[DuffMan]

A conference championship being a prerequisite for a national championship makes all of the sense.

Don't tell the '99 Lutes. 

[Baldini]

It would be interesting to see a breakdown on where people when to school and their desire to alter the current playoff system or not. Objectivity may well be squid a bit on this topic because of bias and selfish wants for their personal interests.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

It would be interesting to see a breakdown on where people when to school and their desire to alter the current playoff system or not. Objectivity may well be squid a bit on this topic because of bias and selfish wants for their personal interests.

I'm somewhat unbiased because the HCAC isn't getting a pool C unless the field expands waaaaay more than it ever will. My personal thought is around 10 pool C spots is just right. I would rather have a couple too many teams in than a couple too few.
There's always going to be complaints from the first team out no matter where you draw the line, but how valid their complaints are depends on where the line is drawn. #5 FBS football team has a much louder complaint than the #69 D1 basketball team.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

Here's a crazy idea that will never happen but at least it's an idea

What if the field was expanded to where it should be based on the ratio (which would add 4 teams right now). The "play-in" games would create a 3 team pod with the "play-in" participants playing a single half one day, with the winner playing the host the next day in the 1st round proper. It could be played Fri night/Sat night, Fri night/Sunday or Sat/Sun. Ideally have the pool C teams participate in these games wherever geographically feasible.

It's not any more ridiculous than how the OT rules are

[Pat Coleman]

Whoa ... a mini-game, like hockey?

[Baldini]

Does Ithaca now slide behind Wesley in the regional rankings? Might be a dangerous spot to be for them? Must win out from here for any chance for a bid I would think.