Big Dance

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I wish schools would leave the games on their feeds for longer. As a parent of a team playing at North Park this weekend I would love to have been able to go back and watch the games again but with Mr. Seager's commentary. Do schools do this so other teams don't get advanced film on the teams playing? It seems like some school feeds leave the video up for a while or even post it to Youtube, and others its gone as soon as the game ends.

Technically, the games aren't allowed to be available On Demand because of the rights rules from Turner Sports/CBS - who own ALL NCAA tournament game rights. I will check for the umpteenth time, but one thing that has always stood out to me is that the games are supposed to be taken down either immediately after the game or a short time afterward.

Greg will attense that I HATE that teams only allow live viewing of any games. The argument is scouting which is such a moot point it isn't funny. Even if a sport doesn't have comprehensive video exchange (which most do) thus allowing teams to get video of teams from around the country any time they want and broken down a million different ways ... (1) teams still get video of teams from throughout the season, (2) I know of teams who simply set up a video camera to record the computer monitor (though, there is technology also to simply record the monitor on the computer), and (3) what are we really trying to hide?

It only hurts those who can't watch games live. That means families, alumni, media folk (like myself), recruits (and families), and countless others. It is a ridiculous call back to olden days and the fact coaches still demand it (during the regular season) is only detrimental to their program on the whole. (Side note: giving access only to players and their families to watch games On Demand is actually an NCAA violation that I know the NCAA has reminded schools on several occasions).

Ok... of my soap box ... again.

I understand D3 does it because of the travel expenses and class time, but Saturday/Sunday back to back games make for some ugly soccer. Both Centre and MSU were gassed, MSU was coming back from an OT game with Kenyon with less than 24 hours rest. It's just not enough recovery time for that quality of play. I''m not trashing MSU or Centre teams or defenders as that is the result of fatigue. 

This is actually being looked into for soccer and other tournaments (because you can't just do it for one). While I like the idea on paper, I do realize it will add a significant amount of costs to tournaments (extra hotel rooms and meals [per diems] and even transportation [extra day of busses]) plus the extra time and expense for hosts on campus. I am just not sure DIII can absorb those costs not only in soccer but in any other sport considering it (FH, BB, WLAX - and eventually MLAX - just off the top of my head).

Anyway, it is being considered by the respective committees in DIII. We shall see, but I am not sure I would hold your breathe. At best, they might put in a couple year trial period (like they have with a moratorium on conference teams playing in the first round; significant in some sports) just to see how much it could end up costing - though, that math isn't the most difficult to figure out.

[Buck O.]

(Side note: giving access only to players and their families to watch games On Demand is actually an NCAA violation that I know the NCAA has reminded schools on several occasions).

Why is that a violation?

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Additional benefits. If you aren't going to give the public access to the games (or you are going to charge for On Demand/Live access to games), then you cannot give access to the games to the students or their families. It is considered additional benefits.

[Goknights2017]

Couldn't you just leave the games up for no charge, or is that a copyright infringement with Turner? If the games are available to the general public the same that they are available to players and/or their families, is that still a violation.

[Buck O.]

Additional benefits. If you aren't going to give the public access to the games (or you are going to charge for On Demand/Live access to games), then you cannot give access to the games to the students or their families. It is considered additional benefits.

Wow.  So athletes in high-end D-1 revenue sports can practice in virtual palaces, live in athletic-only dorms, and receive intensive tutoring, none of which are available to the student body in general, and none of those things are considered additional benefits, but giving mom and dad a password so they can watch a game their kid played while they were at work is considered an additional benefit?  It boggles the mind.

Now, just to be clear, I don't begrudge those facilities that football and basketball players at certain schools have.   Given the amount of money that Alabama football, for example, brings into the University of Alabama, and given that Bama is prohibited from explicitly paying the players who make that revenue stream possible, I'm perfectly OK with paying them in kind through the provision of those kids of facilities.  And I recognize that given the demands on their time and the travel required, it would be effectively impossible for most of these athletes to compete in their sport and attend college simultaneously without the academic support staffs.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Additional benefits. If you aren't going to give the public access to the games (or you are going to charge for On Demand/Live access to games), then you cannot give access to the games to the students or their families. It is considered additional benefits.

Wow.  So athletes in high-end D-1 revenue sports can practice in virtual palaces, live in athletic-only dorms, and receive intensive tutoring, none of which are available to the student body in general, and none of those things are considered additional benefits, but giving mom and dad a password so they can watch a game their kid played while they were at work is considered an additional benefit?  It boggles the mind.

Now, just to be clear, I don't begrudge those facilities that football and basketball players at certain schools have.   Given the amount of money that Alabama football, for example, brings into the University of Alabama, and given that Bama is prohibited from explicitly paying the players who make that revenue stream possible, I'm perfectly OK with paying them in kind through the provision of those kids of facilities.  And I recognize that given the demands on their time and the travel required, it would be effectively impossible for most of these athletes to compete in their sport and attend college simultaneously without the academic support staffs.

You are conflating two different things. D1 has one set of rules for certain things and DIII has it's own rules - each division makes it's own rules though many cross over and are similar.

In addition, you might find that some of what you describe is either available to other students, doesn't actually exist, or has a rule allowing it at DI. Furthermore, you might remember schools like UNC have gotten into trouble for academic messing around similar to what you are describing. There are many cases where we can point to people helping out too much academically (to the point of doing the work or giving students canned work already done) from DI to DIII. Also, there are tutoring services available for all students across the board and MANY DIII teams have tutors available for the teams - again, not an uncommon practice.

But we can't be trying to compare to DI. They have different rules and football is a different beast altogether. The NCAA (meaning member schools) doesn't have the same oversight for FBS that is has for FCS and everything else in DI through DIII.

Quick note - I do have a problem paying players when they are getting free tuition, free books, free room and board. That adds up to a hefty sum. That said, I do not necessarily have a problem with those same student-athletes being paid for their likeness and personal sponsorships. They have earned that on their own. It may cause some issues between school sponsorships and players, but that's why the NCAA is taking about a year or more for all three divisions to figure out the options and rules - which gives each school the opportunity to probably put rules in place such as "we are an Addidas school and thus you probably can't be an Under Armor sponsored student-athlete" (taking a very simple idea; I am sure there are options I can't think of that will be worked out).

But no ... if no one else on campus is able to see the game, then student-athletes and especially their families can't be given the password to a broadcast. Student-athletes are able to see scouting video and such as that is part of being a team, but a university-produced broadcast is something the NCAA (again, member institutions decide) has stated is not allowed to be restricted in such a way.

Couldn't you just leave the games up for no charge, or is that a copyright infringement with Turner? If the games are available to the general public the same that they are available to players and/or their families, is that still a violation.

Technically, according to the rights rules for Turner, it is a copyright infringement (to be very simple). Turner owns the rights and unless something has changed that I can't remember (and to be honest, these things do change often for crazy reasons) a school must remove the archive video for NCAA tournament games.

You might notice that outside of NBC (and now ESPN with special permission), you don't see many highlights of the Olympics used by networks and local TV stations. It isn't allowed. When I worked in Baltimore TV and we wanted to talk about Michael Phelps, we had to use non-Olympic video outside of the 24-hours following each individual race (and not before the race aired on NBC, too).

These networks pay a LOT of money for these things and thus get to put in place rules that may seem restrictive, but actually allow the networks to retain a lot of their rights to that broadcast. It seems silly, but that is also why I pointed out the rule could have changed for lower divisions ... but I haven't spotted it as of yet.

[amh63]

For posters interested in watching the Final Four......Amherst's game with Centre will be shown! Go to the Amherst web site and then to the athletic site.   

[PaulNewman]

For posters interested in watching the Final Four......Amherst's game with Centre will be shown! Go to the Amherst web site and then to the athletic site.

And I thought I had issues.  I do, but still..... Unreal.

[Mr.Right]

Big day today.....I think Tufts v Calvin will be a great game. Calvin is not quite as strong as years past but certainly have enough to beat Tufts if they play well. Calvin attacks with 5 in their 4-3-3 which should give us a wide open game as both teams should have more space than usual to attack. Who can finish and who gets better GK'ing will be the difference.

Amherst v Centre is more of an unknown to me because I have not seen a lick of Centre. I have heard they have a couple dangerous attacking players. Amherst is really solid attacking with Cutler Coleman, GG, Lind etc. Where Centre must take advantage of Amherst is in the back. Amherst back 4 are big and physical but not the most skilled. All 4 backs Kelly, Gitler, Johnson and Wu will barely take a touch before hoofing it long without looking where the ball is going. This to me is a sign of Serpone's paranoia with his backs that we have seen since his tenure began. He does not trust his backs to play simple and keep the ball as is evident because of all the hoofing. Now with Amherst size up front the hoofing can be somewhat successful especially against smaller teams. To me it is useless because half the time you are giving the ball back to the opposition for no reason. It is up to Centre to be able to win these long balls and keep the ball to go right back down the field. I would say Kelly is Amherst best defender especially 1v1. Long thrower Johnson is the worst defender. Centre must go at him to have any success. I have witnessed Johnson 3 times this season get posted up/ shielded by his opponent and then burned followed by a rip and goal. RPI's goal 2 weeks ago was Johnson getting posted and turned rather easily to rip one past White. Tasker burned Johnson the exact same way when Tufts visited Amherst this season and scored on a post/shield then a quick turn. He is not a good 1v1 defender and looks afraid that he will foul so rather than tackling he tries to body them up but this must be exploited if Centre has a chance. Bernie White has shown well this year IMO. He has made a few mistakes but what GK doesn't. Still I think he needs to be tested even from distance to try to get some juicy rebounds. Also, they must get him down on the ground on their shots as the more they make him work the better chance they will have.

All that being said, since I have not seen Centre, it is quite possible that Amherst attack will rip Centre's defense to shreds. Their skill and physicality could completely overwhelm Centre and this game will all depend on how physical Centre is and how long they can sustain it.

[Mr.Right]

Serpone pacing up and down sidelines during starting lineups.....probably burned about 500 calories

[Mr.Right]

Both teams look rusty so far...I would be willing to guess each team has about 15-20 giveaway's in the first 30 minutes.

[Mr.Right]

GG 2-0 Centre....Amherst has just a bit to much in attack for Centre to deal with as of now. 1 more Amherst goal and this game will be in the books

[Mr.Right]

Amherst up 2-0 over Centre at the Half. Centre has to somehow find a goal in the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half to get back in this game. They have some decent talent in attack and atleast are trying to play a little but their final ball has been horrific. Also, they need to shoot more which is easier said because Amherst closes the ball quickly but they gotta get White down on the ground, give better service when they have the ball and somehow finish.

[Mr.Right]

Amherst 3-0 now and GG picks up the trick...Kid has 26 Goals on the year which is almost Alex Blake(Williams '02) territory. Blake finished with IIRC 84 Goals in his career and played some MLS. I predicted in early October he would hit 25 but he was stuck at 18 for a few games but man the kid is a machine and more importantly KNOWS how to finish. For Amherst this lead is HUGE because now Serpone can seriously rest his starters for tomorrow.

[Jump4Joy]

Mr. Right, when will you provide the breakdown on how to defeat Tufts? 
Waxed on at length about what Centre should do vs. Mammoths. So far, it looks like a moot point.
How should Calvin go about their attempt to beat the Jumbos?