2020 NCAA Tournament

ronk · February 28, 2020, 01:22:55 AM

Karin Harvey(Chairman) on Hoopsville talking about hosting in the tournament:
In a perfect world, it would be nice(affected by geography) to have 2 teams from each region hosting; there wasn't any mention of the best 16 teams hosting as has been mentioned somewhere previously on these chat boards.

Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) · February 28, 2020, 09:15:43 AM

Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2020, 01:22:55 AM
Karin Harvey(Chairman) on Hoopsville talking about hosting in the tournament:
In a perfect world, it would be nice(affected by geography) to have 2 teams from each region hosting; there wasn't any mention of the best 16 teams hosting as has been mentioned somewhere previously on these chat boards.

The men's committee has vocalized that notion, but the women tend to stick to a regional alignment, where geography allows.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 28, 2020, 01:01:57 PM

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2020, 09:15:43 AM
Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2020, 01:22:55 AM
Karin Harvey(Chairman) on Hoopsville talking about hosting in the tournament:
In a perfect world, it would be nice(affected by geography) to have 2 teams from each region hosting; there wasn't any mention of the best 16 teams hosting as has been mentioned somewhere previously on these chat boards.

The men's committee has vocalized that notion, but the women tend to stick to a regional alignment, where geography allows.

Yes ... let's not take one conversation in the men's side and bring it into the women's side. I am quite confident where I was talking about "top 16" it was on a men's chat.

The women have never been necessarily tenets of that thinking ... so I wouldn't bring it up in a women's conversation.

As we have discussed on the show numerous times, the men's and women's committees have their own ways of doing some things. They are not lock step with each other and when one does something different the other follows. Thus why the women don't have a home and away multiplier on their SOS, they also don't see the criteria in the same way (women tend to bring in the better WL% over a stronger SOS more times than not; men have sided with a stronger SOS, but that is starting to wane), and when it comes to bracketing they have different philosophies.

You will see me ask one or the other about different ideas the other group might have, but you won't ever see us combine the thinking.

ronk · February 28, 2020, 01:33:38 PM

Wasn't aware that there was a gender difference wrt hosting.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 28, 2020, 01:43:07 PM

Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2020, 01:33:38 PM
Wasn't aware that there was a gender difference wrt hosting.

ronk - there is a women's national committee ... and a men's national committee ... they have their own philosophies when it comes to how they run their tournaments.

Pretty much the same in every sport in the NCAA except maybe M&W Soccer in DIII.

gordonmann · February 28, 2020, 03:54:38 PM

Many moons ago the women's committee built their bracket around by determining who the best 8 teams were and then trying to slot everyone else around them. There wasn't a geographic requirement to the selection (i.e. it wasn't the top team from each of the eight regions). The committee membership has totally changed since then and the bracketing philosophy has, too.

Part of the fun is seeing how the approach evolves as the membership changes. I personally like the approach above better than trying to find two hosts in every region, but to each their own.

Rofrog · February 28, 2020, 08:10:33 PM

Ronk agree one hundred percent.Maybe like Karen hinted get rid of those Sunday games so the committee doesn't rush thru the process that would give them that whole day Sunday because all games would be done by Saturday they do have all the Paper work in front of them.She said that they have the final regional rankings that Sunday so why would that be a problem having the top 16 teams.It is truly a shame when you have teams keep running into each other in the tournament like Cabrini,CNU,Tufts,Bowdoin etc playingbScranton almost every year I like when they rotated the regions every year like played rochester,Baldwin Wallace,Rowan,Cof NJ.Not surebit we have been stuck with Tufts the last 3 or 4 years(Scranton)

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh · February 29, 2020, 01:24:09 AM

Quote from: Rofrog on February 28, 2020, 08:10:33 PM
Ronk agree one hundred percent.Maybe like Karen hinted get rid of those Sunday games so the committee doesn't rush thru the process that would give them that whole day Sunday because all games would be done by Saturday they do have all the Paper work in front of them.She said that they have the final regional rankings that Sunday so why would that be a problem having the top 16 teams.It is truly a shame when you have teams keep running into each other in the tournament like Cabrini,CNU,Tufts,Bowdoin etc playingbScranton almost every year I like when they rotated the regions every year like played rochester,Baldwin Wallace,Rowan,Cof NJ.Not surebit we have been stuck with Tufts the last 3 or 4 years(Scranton)

You are combining three very different things - maybe four - here as if they are all the same thing or the same topic.

Yes, Karin (and others) commented that Sunday conference tournaments games are problematic. More than anything, when those games are played on Sundays. But she never said - and I have never had it said to me on or off the record - that the committee rushes through the work ... selections or bracketing. They absolutely don't. What those games on Sunday cause is a lack of being able to work knowing for sure something could change due to an outcome of a game still happening. They may have made a few decisions only to have all that work undone because of a surprise outcome.

The committee ends up working a LOT of hours on Sunday alone. There are some occasions I know they have worked until after midnight ET getting it all done.

Sure ... they could try and select a Top 16 if they want. But that again, has nothing to do with Sunday games or anything else. That comes down to a philosophy. The committee chooses not to select their Top 16 (based on the criteria, not polls and NOT who are the top two in ever region - not all regions are equal). That simply is their way of doing things. I believe they will have a host from each region at minimum ... they may have more, but there are a lot of things that will decide that other than just having the second ranked team in a region host.

And as for the "shame when you have teams keep running into each other in the tournament" ... that has nothing to do with Sunday games, how much time they spend on the selections and brackets, nor if they have a "top 16" if they want it. It has to do with geography. The men have the same problem.

But the women have a bigger thing at play than the men ... a lack of parity. The same programs are always in the upper one or two tiers in Division III women's basketball year in and year out. As a result, it is hard to find anything different when the same teams are always in the second weekend, for example. The same teams are always making the second weekend! The committee can't suddenly get Scranton to play George Fox in the opening weekend because they have a Top 16 ... but because geography and the budgetary limits of the bracket won't allow it.

Cabrini, CNU, Tufts, Bowdoin, etc. are teams that can get to Scranton (and vis versa). And rotating regions won't change this. That ONLY affects the final four. (Rotating regions also creates boring early games of only in-region games.) It would be nice if Scranton and Hope could play earlier than the final four for a change, but the two schools are 679 miles apart. Scranton and DePauw? 696 miles. You know who can get to Hope and DePauw without any travel limitations? Rochester. Thus why Rochester is likely to get bracketed with those Great Lakes teams and Scranton does not. (Though, interestingly Rochester hasn't played GL teams in their last three tournaments; they played Atlantic, Mid-Atlantic, Northeast, and East teams ... same as Scranton.)

Now Baldwin Wallace v Scranton would be a nice idea ... but we are talking about the second weekend more likely. No one would want to see that in the opening weekend as all of these programs we are talking about deserve to have that as a "down the road" game, not a first two rounds game.

And yes, Scranton has played Tufts three of the last four years ... that's because the programs have been good. Twice in the quarterfinals and once in the round prior. Again ... lack of parity and geography play a role.

There is only so much a committee can do. We do push and request more creativity when it applies ... but even we know there are limitations.

ronk · March 01, 2020, 07:42:45 PM

Guessing the 4 seeds will be Hope and Depauw on 1 side w Amherst in Depauw's bracket and Tufts and Bowdoin on the other side. Will Scranton meet Tufts for the 4th time in 5 years? Things could set up that way.

ronk · March 02, 2020, 01:11:58 AM

Each year like to propose a Scranton regional of teams with prospects from my AAU evaluation sessions; this year would like to include CNU(2), Ithaca(3), SUNY-Geneseo(2). Sectional weekend could choose among Amherst(4), Tufts(4), Bowdoin(2), Messiah(1), SUNY-New Paltz(1).

VT-Alum-NOVA · March 02, 2020, 07:12:15 AM

from projected bracket 1, who are the other 2 teams in Marymount pod?

gordonmann · March 02, 2020, 01:18:37 PM

Sorry about that.

As you've probably seen, it was Montclair versus Ohio Northern.

VT-Alum-NOVA · March 02, 2020, 03:05:48 PM

VERY surprised that George Fox flying to DC to play in first round. is this new trend?

Ron Boerger · March 02, 2020, 03:12:45 PM

Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on March 02, 2020, 03:05:48 PM
VERY surprised that George Fox flying to DC to play in first round. is this new trend?

They sent all three west coast teams cross-country. No idea why, normally there would be a west coast pod and one team would be flown out there.

gordonmann · March 02, 2020, 03:16:30 PM

They would've needed two flights for a West coast pod (Redlands can't drive there) but, yeah, that's the usual set up. They did a nice job separating conference foes and getting West Coast teams back East for fun match ups.