Mount Rushmore of D3 Coaches

[Gregory Sager]

Remind me -- we are talking about coaches, right?

We're just seeing if you're paying attention, Pat.

Regarding Mount Rushmore, that should be reserved for D3 coaches, but my argument is that guys who coachd in a D3 style context (no scholarships, philosophically attuned to D3 principles) prior to the advent of D3 should get *some* credit for their early success. Especially if they already have a Rushmore-esque resume.

How closely did they hew to those D3 principles, though? There's a lot more to D3 principles than simply eschewing athletic scholarships. The 4%-leeway principle, f'rinstance, in which a D3 school agrees not to deviate by more than 4% from any aid given to a student-athlete as opposed to the typical student at that school. Back in the day, there was a number of schools that were dual members of D3 and the NAIA. Nebraska Wesleyan was pretty much the last school to hold that dual affiliation, before moving to the ARC and finally jettisoning its NAIA membership for good a few years ago. But in the early days of D3 there was a whole bunch of dual-member schools, and the CCIW contained several of them (including your alma mater at first, Steve, although I think that you guys were D3-only by the time that you graduated). I've occasionally wondered if the dual-member schools that declared for the NAIA went ahead and followed through on the paperwork for D3 in any given year back then. (Of course, it wouldn't be an applicable matter the other way around, given the perennial loosey-goosey nature of the NAIA.)

[thebear]

to get us back on task.  I submit the following:

Winning Coach   Titles   Seconds
Ryan, Bo               4                0
McCarrell, Dan       3                0
Welsh, Jerry       2                3
Bessoir, Bob       2                1
Bennett, Jack       2                0
Edwards, Mark       2                0
Hixson, David       2                0
Miller, Pat               2                0
Semling, Bob       2                0
VanderMeulen, Dave   2        0
Djurikovic, Bosco   2                0
Neer, Mike              1                2
Johnson, Jerry      1                1
Lewis, Matt      1                1
Macedo, Dave      1                1
Paulsen, Dave      1                1

[augie77]

Remind me -- we are talking about coaches, right?

We're just seeing if you're paying attention, Pat.

Regarding Mount Rushmore, that should be reserved for D3 coaches, but my argument is that guys who coachd in a D3 style context (no scholarships, philosophically attuned to D3 principles) prior to the advent of D3 should get *some* credit for their early success. Especially if they already have a Rushmore-esque resume.

How closely did they hew to those D3 principles, though? There's a lot more to D3 principles than simply eschewing athletic scholarships. The 4%-leeway principle, f'rinstance, in which a D3 school agrees not to deviate by more than 4% from any aid given to a student-athlete as opposed to the typical student at that school. Back in the day, there was a number of schools that were dual members of D3 and the NAIA. Nebraska Wesleyan was pretty much the last school to hold that dual affiliation, before moving to the ARC and finally jettisoning its NAIA membership for good a few years ago. But in the early days of D3 there was a whole bunch of dual-member schools, and the CCIW contained several of them (including your alma mater at first, Steve, although I think that you guys were D3-only by the time that you graduated). I've occasionally wondered if the dual-member schools that declared for the NAIA went ahead and followed through on the paperwork for D3 in any given year back then. (Of course, it wouldn't be an applicable matter the other way around, given the perennial loosey-goosey nature of the NAIA.)

I wasn't attuned to administrative technicalities in those days, but I can tell you that in 1974, my freshman year, the Vikings went to Kansas City and finished in the Final Eight for NAIA (they had been third in 1973).  The next year, 1975, was Year One of D3 and the Vikings finished third at Albright College (lost to Lemoyne-Owen and Jerry Lewis in the semi-finals.  The next year was a repeat performance, also finishing third at Albright.  I attended in both 1975 and 1976.  The following year Augie hosted and I was there again.  Also watched your Chicago Vikings earn their three-peat in 1980 in Rock Island, and Augustana's near miss to Potsdam in 1981.  Best I can tell Augustana put the NAIA in the rear view mirror as soon as there was a D3 option.  The single goal was to go far and hopefully win in D3.  Still waiting.....

[Gregory Sager]

I know that Augustana finished third in the NAIA in 1972-73, the season that Augie earned the last undefeated conference record that anyone's achieved in the CCIW. But Augustana was in the 1971 NCAA College Division tournament, in which it lost to Central Michigan in the opening round and to Ashland in the regional consolation game. It's possible that Augie flipped back and forth between the NCAA and NAIA on two different occasions within a five-year span without ever holding dual membership, but it seems somewhat unlikely.

It was commonplace back then to hold dual memberships in the NCAA and the NAIA, and to declare for one organization or the other -- you couldn't declare for both -- for post-season purposes prior to the beginning of the school year.

[ronk]

Remind me -- we are talking about coaches, right?

We're just seeing if you're paying attention, Pat.

Regarding Mount Rushmore, that should be reserved for D3 coaches, but my argument is that guys who coachd in a D3 style context (no scholarships, philosophically attuned to D3 principles) prior to the advent of D3 should get *some* credit for their early success. Especially if they already have a Rushmore-esque resume.

How closely did they hew to those D3 principles, though? There's a lot more to D3 principles than simply eschewing athletic scholarships. The 4%-leeway principle, f'rinstance, in which a D3 school agrees not to deviate by more than 4% from any aid given to a student-athlete as opposed to the typical student at that school. Back in the day, there was a number of schools that were dual members of D3 and the NAIA. Nebraska Wesleyan was pretty much the last school to hold that dual affiliation, before moving to the ARC and finally jettisoning its NAIA membership for good a few years ago. But in the early days of D3 there was a whole bunch of dual-member schools, and the CCIW contained several of them (including your alma mater at first, Steve, although I think that you guys were D3-only by the time that you graduated). I've occasionally wondered if the dual-member schools that declared for the NAIA went ahead and followed through on the paperwork for D3 in any given year back then. (Of course, it wouldn't be an applicable matter the other way around, given the perennial loosey-goosey nature of the NAIA.)

I wasn't attuned to administrative technicalities in those days, but I can tell you that in 1974, my freshman year, the Vikings went to Kansas City and finished in the Final Eight for NAIA (they had been third in 1973).  The next year, 1975, was Year One of D3 and the Vikings finished third at Albright College (lost to Lemoyne-Owen and Jerry Lewis in the semi-finals.  The next year was a repeat performance, also finishing third at Albright.  I attended in both 1975 and 1976.  The following year Augie hosted and I was there again.  Also watched your Chicago Vikings earn their three-peat in 1980 in Rock Island, and Augustana's near miss to Potsdam in 1981.  Best I can tell Augustana put the NAIA in the rear view mirror as soon as there was a D3 option.  The single goal was to go far and hopefully win in D3.  Still waiting.....

Sorry to be in Augie's way in '76  ; got the program in front of me if you have any questions.

[augie77]

No questions, but #52 was my senior year roommate.  Currently a physician in Rockford, Illinois.  His gpa significantly exceeded his ppg.

[ronk]

 #52 is in the team picture but not on the roster or in the game scoresheet.

[augie77]

Probably left at home so he could study for his organic chemistry exam.     I think if he'd have been there Augie would have won.  lol

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Per this convo ... seems everyone forgot Amherst lost to WashU in what was the Bears' first NCAA title. 2008: 90-68.

So Hixon actually has one second place finish to add to that resume.

[thebear]

Thanks, good catch, the data base I was pulling from had Hixson as Dave in one and David in the other two.

Moves him into a tie with Bob Bessoir with two titles and a second.

My thoughts

Ryan, 4 titles, two undefeated seasons, best record in the 90's
two headed McCarrell/Djurikovic, tough to take one without the other.
Welsh (60 game win streak, first undefeated champ, 5 championship games), Best record in the 80's.
two headed Bessoir/Hixson, tough to separate, Bessoir in early days of D-III, Hixson still had 25+ years of tournament - more than Ryan or Welsh.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thanks, good catch, the data base I was pulling from had Hixson as Dave in one and David in the other two.

Moves him into a tie with Bob Bessoir with two titles and a second.

My thoughts

Ryan, 4 titles, two undefeated seasons, best record in the 90's
two headed McCarrell/Djurikovic, tough to take one without the other.
Welsh (60 game win streak, first undefeated champ, 5 championship games), Best record in the 80's.
two headed Bessoir/Hixson, tough to separate, Bessoir in early days of D-III, Hixson still had 25+ years of tournament - more than Ryan or Welsh.

the bear - HIXON ... not HixSon.

[Gregory Sager]

I've already rattled his cage about how he spells that name, Dave. He should get a pass for "Djurickovic," though; everybody who isn't a Serbian-American struggles with that one at first.

[ronk]

I've already rattled his cage about how he spells that name, Dave. He should get a pass for "Djurickovic," though; everybody who isn't a Serbian-American struggles with that one at first.

There's an old joke about the Eastern European(maybe, Serbian) who went in for a vision exam:
Can u read the bottom line? said the doc.
Read it! I know the guy! said the patient.

[Greek Tragedy]

https://en.dopl3r.com/memes/dank/a-russian-went-for-an-eye-check-up-the-doctor-showed-the-letters-on-the-board-czwxnqstazky-doctor-can-you-read-this-russian-read-i-evern-know-the-guy-hes-my-cousin-czwxnqstazky-rozhdestvenskij-can-someone-explain-me-this-j/443009

[WUPHF]

Hey, I have been giving you all a pass every since I joined d3boards.com, but I think it is time to honor the old coach properly.

From now on, I expect to see his name written as Бошко Ђуричковић.

I'll accept the Latin spelling of Boško Đuričković when used outside the CCIW thread.