Covid Impacts on Upcoming Season

Started by fishercats, May 19, 2020, 10:51:04 AM

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PlaySimple

Quote from: Ommadawn on July 31, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
100% disagree with the last sentence.  Many will take a semester off so that they can return and play next fall.  Underclassmen will do the same thing.  Most of my son's teammates are planning on taking off a semester at some point, and 75% of the seniors will do so in order to compete next fall.

This is consistent with what I've heard, too, particularly among rising seniors.

A rising senior taking a semester off so that can graduate later? Pay the higher tuition that comes with that? Delay starting graduate school or starting in the workforce? I know that this is a difficult time to be starting out in the workforce but there are still a lot of unknowns. I just don't see someone taking a semester off so that they can play another season of soccer.

College Soccer Observer

#241
Quote from: PlaySimple on July 31, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on July 31, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on July 31, 2020, 12:31:43 PM
100% disagree with the last sentence.  Many will take a semester off so that they can return and play next fall.  Underclassmen will do the same thing.  Most of my son's teammates are planning on taking off a semester at some point, and 75% of the seniors will do so in order to compete next fall.

This is consistent with what I've heard, too, particularly among rising seniors.

A rising senior taking a semester off so that can graduate later? Pay the higher tuition that comes with that? Delay starting graduate school or starting in the workforce? I know that this is a difficult time to be starting out in the workforce but there are still a lot of unknowns. I just don't see someone taking a semester off so that they can play another season of soccer.

My son's teammates are all opting to take a semester off at some point, and he plans to as well. They can work, do an internship, etc.  This is a testament to two things.  1. The culture of the program where players do not want to miss out on a season of competition with their closest friends.  2.  The alumni network is so strong that most of players are graduating with job offers in hand.  I think very few are going to suffer financially by postponing graduation because they are not going to school for an extra semester.

Flying Weasel

Given the fact that, while not common or typical, it is far from unheard of for student-athletes who suffer injuries to stay in college for an extra semester/year to use all four years of eligibility, I am surprised anyone would think that almost no one would do so because of Covid-19.  At the same time, I am surprised to hear a number like 75% doing so, and I am sure that across the board in D-III the percent will not be anywhere close to that.

This is a unique situation and I can see some logic in thinking that if ever there was a time to defer trying to enter the workforce and getting started on a career, now would be one of those times.  The finances of extending your college enrollment would rule out that option for many, but for many others that may not be the case.   

Different players and their families will have different outlooks and mindsets about "getting on with life" and they will have different options available to them due to their different financial situations and other factors.  I never played intercollegiate sports myself, but just in general with respect to life decisions, as I have gotten older, I have often thought that when I was younger that I should have been less mature in some of my life decisions and "gone for it" at times to have experiences that largely can't be had later down life's journey.  You only live once and can't go back and do it over.  You have the rest of your life to work, to pay off debt, etc.  It's a fine line and a tough balance, and I'm not advocating to be completely irresponsible.  These are tough decisions for the kids and their families.  The 20-something me would probably be saying that most players should just graduate on schedule and get a job and get on with life.  All these years later, I am much more conflicted and less opinionated on what is the right approach.

The one thing that I wonder about is whether the Fall 2021 season will be a normal one or not.  I certainly hope so, but as this pandemic extends on with much uncertainty remaining, who knows.  Not sure if that is factoring into the thought- and decision-making process for players and their families.

Ejay

More and more coaches we're talking to are indicating they will play some kind of season in the spring.  Not "may play", but "will play". And this is not the 15 day one scrimmage season either...

blue_jays

#244
Quote from: EB2319 on August 03, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
More and more coaches we're talking to are indicating they will play some kind of season in the spring.  Not "may play", but "will play". And this is not the 15 day one scrimmage season either...

Honestly it doesn't matter what the coaches think in terms of the spring. It all comes down to what the Athletic Directors decide in terms of what is best for everyone in the athletic department. At this point we don't even know if winter sports will be played, much less prognosticate the spring.
Playing fall sports during the spring of 2021 is a fool's errand unless they want to make it intramural and not count as an official season. As has been pointed out by many, folding the busiest sports season (fall) into the second busiest sports season (spring) will never work logistically, especially with health protocols and limited space for facilities, practice, locker rooms, and staffing events.
Not to mention the budgets of every school in the country are going to be reduced, the pandemic is taking a toll on every university's budget for the fiscal year that has just begun.
Good luck to these schools trying to tell the spring sports they will get the shaft once again, that's what departmental mutinies are made of.

Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

Quote from: EB2319 on August 03, 2020, 10:23:41 AM
More and more coaches we're talking to are indicating they will play some kind of season in the spring.  Not "may play", but "will play". And this is not the 15 day one scrimmage season either...

They can say that all they want ... but they may want to talk to their ADs before they try and schedule (or, I guess they could schedule and then find out the hard way).

I think a number of fall teams may try and cobble something nice this spring to help the seniors. Maybe a home-and-home with someone near by, but any resemblance of any reasonable schedule or competition ... let alone NCAA championships ... isn't going to happen.

I can say this much: Fall Championships will be canceled this week. Either the NCAA BOG is going to do it or the Division will do it. And "canceled" not "postponed." Coaches can make all the effort they want, but they need to be realistic and to do so would require them to see the bigger picture outside of their sport.
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

PaulNewman

Well, that was fast.

We've gone from some insistence that we could still see a meaningful season/competition this Fall just 3-4 weeks ago to almost a full rule out of a Spring season. 

IMO it's too early to conjecture about Spring 2021.  While the odds now seem more likely that a Spring season won't happen I do believe there is a scenario where it could.  A week ago I was inquiring with some dealers about electric mopeds/scooters, and the one reasonably close to me said they were out of stock and would not be getting anymore this year.  I then asked if they expected new inventory in 2021, and the woman laughed and replied "Who knows what is going to happen in 2021!"  Same thing here.  I don't think we know.  I'm not buying the resources argument.  As has been argued for the Fall, schools and conferences are chomping at the bit for an "all clear" signal, and the pent-up frustration/energy is only going to escalate.  I would think most schools are desperate to deliver great news and will be highly motivated to deliver if there is an "all clear" soon enough to execute.  I have no idea what that cut-off date would be (maybe Feb 1, Feb 15, March 1?), and I have my doubts that all of the components of an "all clear" (effective vaccine PLUS adequate distribution in time) can happen soon enough.  That said, if there is great news that is actionable then I think a lot of schools will want to make a season happen even if resources are tight and overwhelmed for a handful or so of weeks.  As I've said, the carrot of a possible Spring season no doubt has a strategic element, but if statements being made about seriously considering a Spring season are fully disingenuous that would be very disappointing.

The biggest barrier may be something someone mentioned above.  Assuming there is an "all clear," and assuming that many schools will not find the resource issue prohibitive, the key factor could come down to Winter sports.  It's hard to argue for having Fall sports in the Spring if the Winter sports don't happen, and while things certainly could change, an "all clear" for Winter sports seems highly unlikely, especially given the strong possibility that the Fall could be very bad in terms of surges, 2nd wave, etc.

blue_jays

Quote from: PaulNewman on August 04, 2020, 10:37:49 AM
Well, that was fast.

We've gone from some insistence that we could still see a meaningful season/competition this Fall just 3-4 weeks ago to almost a full rule out of a Spring season. 

IMO it's too early to conjecture about Spring 2021.  While the odds now seem more likely that a Spring season won't happen I do believe there is a scenario where it could.  A week ago I was inquiring with some dealers about electric mopeds/scooters, and the one reasonably close to me said they were out of stock and would not be getting anymore this year.  I then asked if they expected new inventory in 2021, and the woman laughed and replied "Who knows what is going to happen in 2021!"  Same thing here.  I don't think we know.  I'm not buying the resources argument.  As has been argued for the Fall, schools and conferences are chomping at the bit for an "all clear" signal, and the pent-up frustration/energy is only going to escalate.  I would think most schools are desperate to deliver great news and will be highly motivated to deliver if there is an "all clear" soon enough to execute.  I have no idea what that cut-off date would be (maybe Feb 1, Feb 15, March 1?), and I have my doubts that all of the components of an "all clear" (effective vaccine PLUS adequate distribution in time) can happen soon enough.  That said, if there is great news that is actionable then I think a lot of schools will want to make a season happen even if resources are tight and overwhelmed for a handful or so of weeks.  As I've said, the carrot of a possible Spring season no doubt has a strategic element, but if statements being made about seriously considering a Spring season are fully disingenuous that would be very disappointing.

The biggest barrier may be something someone mentioned above.  Assuming there is an "all clear," and assuming that many schools will not find the resource issue prohibitive, the key factor could come down to Winter sports.  It's hard to argue for having Fall sports in the Spring if the Winter sports don't happen, and while things certainly could change, an "all clear" for Winter sports seems highly unlikely, especially given the strong possibility that the Fall could be very bad in terms of surges, 2nd wave, etc.

Resources matter more than you're giving it credit for. Locker room space is a huge issue if you're doubling the sports that need access, plus doubling your opponents. Can't socially distance effectively in that scenario. Athletic trainers are required at practices and games, and they're spread thin in the best of times. Hiring outside help gets expensive, and every school is gonna have some budget crunch this year, even the high endowment schools. Not to mention your overworked facilities staff that takes care of the fields and preps them for games and practices year round.
When lacrosse, soccer, football and track all use the same stadium facility, how's that gonna work for games and practices?
And whose gonna staff the games especially when they're all playing simultaneously? We're talking D3 schools with 1-2 person shops who rely on student manpower to accomplish these things. If spring gets played, it's likely just spring sports.

PaulNewman

Quote from: blue_jays on August 04, 2020, 02:50:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on August 04, 2020, 10:37:49 AM
Well, that was fast.

We've gone from some insistence that we could still see a meaningful season/competition this Fall just 3-4 weeks ago to almost a full rule out of a Spring season. 

IMO it's too early to conjecture about Spring 2021.  While the odds now seem more likely that a Spring season won't happen I do believe there is a scenario where it could.  A week ago I was inquiring with some dealers about electric mopeds/scooters, and the one reasonably close to me said they were out of stock and would not be getting anymore this year.  I then asked if they expected new inventory in 2021, and the woman laughed and replied "Who knows what is going to happen in 2021!"  Same thing here.  I don't think we know.  I'm not buying the resources argument.  As has been argued for the Fall, schools and conferences are chomping at the bit for an "all clear" signal, and the pent-up frustration/energy is only going to escalate.  I would think most schools are desperate to deliver great news and will be highly motivated to deliver if there is an "all clear" soon enough to execute.  I have no idea what that cut-off date would be (maybe Feb 1, Feb 15, March 1?), and I have my doubts that all of the components of an "all clear" (effective vaccine PLUS adequate distribution in time) can happen soon enough.  That said, if there is great news that is actionable then I think a lot of schools will want to make a season happen even if resources are tight and overwhelmed for a handful or so of weeks.  As I've said, the carrot of a possible Spring season no doubt has a strategic element, but if statements being made about seriously considering a Spring season are fully disingenuous that would be very disappointing.

The biggest barrier may be something someone mentioned above.  Assuming there is an "all clear," and assuming that many schools will not find the resource issue prohibitive, the key factor could come down to Winter sports.  It's hard to argue for having Fall sports in the Spring if the Winter sports don't happen, and while things certainly could change, an "all clear" for Winter sports seems highly unlikely, especially given the strong possibility that the Fall could be very bad in terms of surges, 2nd wave, etc.

Resources matter more than you're giving it credit for. Locker room space is a huge issue if you're doubling the sports that need access, plus doubling your opponents. Can't socially distance effectively in that scenario. Athletic trainers are required at practices and games, and they're spread thin in the best of times. Hiring outside help gets expensive, and every school is gonna have some budget crunch this year, even the high endowment schools. Not to mention your overworked facilities staff that takes care of the fields and preps them for games and practices year round.
When lacrosse, soccer, football and track all use the same stadium facility, how's that gonna work for games and practices?
And whose gonna staff the games especially when they're all playing simultaneously? We're talking D3 schools with 1-2 person shops who rely on student manpower to accomplish these things. If spring gets played, it's likely just spring sports.

I think my overall message is that a real soccer season in the Spring is unlikely.  But the scenario where I suggested it might happen was based on the idea that there would be no need for social distancing (which also may be unlikely).  However, if there is a true "all clear" I do believe many schools will be anxious to make as many students happy as possible, especially when the crisis will have dragged on longer and caused more damage than probably any of them expected a few months ago. 

Hopkins92

Good to see D-Mac and PaulN keeping it real with the resource issue. EXTREMELY tricky for even D1 schools to spread out the support staff, let along locker rooms and fields. A lot of east coast schools have limited real estate and struggle in normal times to find practice and game day fields.

I want to highlight the training staff issue. At the high school level, this makes stacking Fall and Spring sports a complete non-starter. I know there's a range of AD budgets across D3, but this isn't a "nice to have," there are liability issues at play here... You have to have training staff at every game.

Jim Dixon

Looking past the fall, if there is not some real solution to the pandemic than the spring seasons will be in jeopardy. I do not see any real slow down in preparing for a 2021 baseball season with 15% of the games scheduled to date (typical for this time) but nothing will stop this than a vaccine or cure with a vaccine the most likely. Great progress but getting it to the world will take many months and as much as I might debate, D-III baseball players are not the most in need.

Flying Weasel

#251
The NCAA Board of Governor's is leaving it to each division to decide if fall championships can be conducted while providing guidelines it will enforce.

https://www.ncaa.com/live-updates/ncaa/ncaa-sports-news-schedule-changes-coronavirus-updates-all-sports

QuoteNCAA directs each division to determine if it can safely hold fall championships

The NCAA Board of Governors ruled Wednesday that each division will be directed to determine its ability to conduct fall championships. Each division must make a decision regarding fall championships by Aug. 21.

The NCAA outlined and clarified several guidelines it would enforce and expect for any return-to-sport scenario to protect the student-athletes' interests. You can read the full release here.

● NCAA championships may use reduced bracketing, a reduced number of competitors, predetermined sites and, where appropriate, single sites to limit exposure to COVID-19.
● If 50% or more of eligible teams in a particular sport in a division cancel their fall season, there will be no fall NCAA championship in that sport in that division.
● If fall sports championships are postponed in any division, a decision to conduct that championship at a later date will be based upon the scientific data available at that time regarding COVID-19, along with other considerations.
● All student-athletes must be allowed to opt out of participation due to concerns about contracting COVID-19. If a college athlete chooses to opt out, that individual's athletics scholarship commitment must be honored by the college or university.

"First and foremost, we need to make sure we provide a safe environment for college athletes to compete for an opportunity to play in NCAA championships," NCAA President Mark Emmert said in an official statement. "A decision based on the realities in each division will provide clarity for conferences and campuses as they determine how to safely begin the academic year and the return to sports."

It was already obvious from a realistic and practical standpoint, but it's now "official" that, on the basis of the second bullet item, there can be no Division III Fall Championships.

Flying Weasel

Here's the full list of requirements from the NCAA Board of Governors.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2020-08-05/ncaa-board-governors-announces-specific-requirements-conduct-fall-sports

Quote● All fall sports activity (preseason, regular season and postseason) must follow the recently released return-to-sport guidelines from the NCAA Sport Science Institute for all athletic activity. As the guidelines change based on the ever-changing pandemic, schools must follow any future modifications.

● The NCAA will establish a phone number and email to allow college athletes, parents or others to report alleged failures. The Association will notify school and conference administrators, who will be expected to take immediate action.

● All member schools must adhere to federal, state and local guidelines related to COVID-19. Further, the conduct of NCAA championships must be in line with federal, state and local guidelines.

● All student-athletes must be allowed to opt out of participation due to concerns about contracting COVID-19. If a college athlete chooses to opt out, that individual's athletics scholarship commitment must be honored by the college or university.

● Each division must determine no later than Aug. 14 the eligibility accommodations that must be made for student-athletes who opt out of participating this fall or for those whose seasons are canceled or cut short due to COVID-19. College athletes and their families must know what their eligibility status will be before beginning the fall season.

● Member schools may not require student-athletes to waive their legal rights regarding COVID-19 as a condition of athletics participation.

● Member schools, in conjunction with existing insurance standards, must cover COVID-19 related medical expenses for student-athletes to prevent out-of-pocket expenses for college athletes and their families.

● Any NCAA fall championship or other postseason contests must be conducted within enhanced safety protocols for student-athletes and essential athletics personnel. These safety enhancements will include regular testing, separation of college athletes and essential personnel from all other nonessential personnel, and physical distancing and masking policies during all aspects of noncompetition.

● NCAA championships may use reduced bracketing, a reduced number of competitors, predetermined sites and, where appropriate, single sites to limit exposure to COVID-19.

● If 50% or more of eligible teams in a particular sport in a division cancel their fall season, there will be no fall NCAA championship in that sport in that division.

● If fall sports championships are postponed in any division, a decision to conduct that championship at a later date will be based upon the scientific data available at that time regarding COVID-19, along with other considerations.


Dave 'd-mac' McHugh

It is official from DIII ... fall have been canceled. Notice ... canceled. No effort I have been told will really be made for the spring.

Schools may make the effort to have a few games for seniors or something, but no full championships from the NCAA. Thus, why would schools use up eligibility to have full seasons?

I have talked to a number of administrators in DIII and trying to pull off the spring even without Covid with all those sports just isn't feasible ... and a few mentioned that it wouldn't be fair to spring athletes (and even winter ones) who got screwed last academic year.

For me, selfishly, I have now lost four NCAA Division III sports I call for NCAA.com in the last five months. I will go more than a year between opportunities. I feel horrible for the coaches and student-athletes ...
Host of Hoopsville. USBWA Executive Board member. Broadcast Director for D3sports.com. Broadcaster for NCAA.com & several colleges. PA Announcer for Gophers & Brigade. Follow me on Twitter: @davemchugh or @d3hoopsville.

Flying Weasel

#254
D-Mac beat me to it, but the Division III Presidents Council cancels fall championships as they had to do because of the 50% participation threshold set by the NCAA Board of Governor's, as noted in my previous posts.  Of course, with all but one conference cancelling fall competition and only a smattering of others school leaving the door open to some fall contests, there wasn't going to be a fall championship regardless.  But now it is official. 

https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-iii-presidents-council-cancels-fall-championships

QuoteDivision III Presidents Council cancels fall championships
Moving sports to spring proved unworkable
August 5, 2020 1:58pm | Jeremy Villanueva

NCAA Division III championships in fall sports for 2020-21 are canceled. With the health and safety of the division's student-athletes, coaches, athletics administrators and communities as its priority, the Division III Presidents Council made the decision Wednesday to cancel the championships due to the COVID-19 pandemic and related administrative and financial challenges.

The Board of Governors directed each division to make a decision on its fall sport championships. It also agreed to require all members institutions to apply the resocialization principles to fall sports and set a 50% sponsorship threshold for a fall sport championship to be conducted.

"Looking at the health and safety challenges we face this fall during this unprecedented time, we had to make this tough decision to cancel championships for fall sports this academic year in the best interest of our student-athlete and member institutions," said Tori Murden McClure, chair of the Presidents Council and president at Spalding. "Our Championships Committee reviewed the financial and logistical ramifications if Division III fall sports championships were conducted in the spring and found it was logistically untenable and financially prohibitive. Our Management Council reached the same conclusion. Moving forward, we will try to maximize the championships experience for our winter and spring sport student-athletes, who unfortunately were short-changed last academic year."

Also official, the fall championships will not be conducted in the spring.  Of course, that doesn't prohibit the schools and conferences from playing fall sports in the spring, but anything resembling a full regular season would seen out of the question for reasons already presented by others on this message board and the reasons D-III has ruled out conducting fall championships during thw spring.