2021 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Gregory Sager]

-- The 3 I did NOT vote for that make the "official" poll are N. Central, F&M, and Carthage (all close, especially the first two, but was actually closer to voting for Wheaton (ILL) than N. Central or Carthage

At this juncture, Wheaton is a better team than either North Central or Carthage. The Cardinals have that gaudy record, but other than Dubuque they haven't played anybody of quality (and Dubuque has been shakier than expected), while the Firebirds are too young and inconsistent to hang in the Top 25 for now. Next Wednesday is the big annual showdown between Wheaton and North Park, with NPU visiting the western suburbs this year, and that may be the game that decides the CCIW race -- as it so often has over the past two decades.

North Central visits Carthage this Saturday, and that will also be a game to watch.

[PaulNewman]

The good news for the CCIW is aside from rankings there are 4 teams in the conversation and relevant, and any of the 4 could knock the others out in a one-off playoff match.

At the very top imo there is a virtual tie between W&L, Messiah, and Tufts...similarly strong but not brutal schedules, all with 2-3 OT games, and all with 1-2 draws.

I'm not sold on Otterbein who I have at 14 or 15, but they've played a pretty good schedule and keep getting results so I considered them deserving.  And still in the "need to see more" mode with N Central, Augsburg, Wilmington and probably a couple of others with gaudy records (e.g. Coast Guard).

I watched a fair amount of Otterbein @ Denison last night.  Ended 1-1.  Denison is 4-3-1 and Otterbein is 6-0-2.  Very, very similar schedules and imo based on last night very evenly matched teams with if anything Denison having a slight edge.  And yet one has a very enviable record and the other just so-so.  Hard to explain but I suppose good fortune, karma, and momentum play roles.

[Ejay]

Looks like a lot of D3 teams play local non-league schedules...and the opponents are weak.  Would value this boards opinion on whether it makes sense for D3 teams to schedule tough non-conference opponents.  Does it help them get to the tournament?  There are enough good teams near each other to schedule each other.  Just not sure it's worth it.

Yes, strong schedule helps teams get in tournament as one of most key criteria (if not the most) is strength of schedule.  Of course getting more wins and draws in those tough games as opposed to mostly or all losses is a big key as well.  Roughly speaking, an 11-7 record with a brutal schedule serves a team better than going 16-1 with very few to no tough games.

If I remember correctly, Lynchburg 2018 is a great example.  13-2-2 on the year.  Their 4 blemishes:
1. Drawing at #12 UMW
2. Drawing with W&L (14-3-2 and won the ODAC)
3. Lost to Bridgewater in regular season
4. Lost to Bridgewater in ODAC semis
 
Non-conference wins:
Averett (4-13-1)
Oberlin (1-16)
Dickinson (11-6-2)
CNU (7-8-1... uncharacteristic bad year)

[SimpleCoach]

I'm not sold on Otterbein who I have at 14 or 15, but they've played a pretty good schedule and keep getting results so I considered them deserving.  And still in the "need to see more" mode with N Central, Augsburg, Wilmington and probably a couple of others with gaudy records (e.g. Coast Guard).

I watched a fair amount of Otterbein @ Denison last night.  Ended 1-1.  Denison is 4-3-1 and Otterbein is 6-0-2.  Very, very similar schedules and imo based on last night very evenly matched teams with if anything Denison having a slight edge.  And yet one has a very enviable record and the other just so-so.  Hard to explain but I suppose good fortune, karma, and momentum play roles.

In the same camp as you @PaulNewman.  I think they have some things going for them, and was impressed that they pulled out a tie with OWU.  Although not sure if it was because they were good or because OWU was off that night.  Watching the Denison game next so hope to have a better idea.

[calvin_grad]

I would agree with that. I've seen Calvin twice, not counting about five minutes of watching the Knights pull the wings off of a fly against Finlandia before I switched to another game in disgust. Both of those occasions (Aurora and Carthage) were when the Knights were home at Zuidema, and I was not at all impressed by them.

I would agree, having seen a number of their games as well.  I am not a soccer "expert", but they just don't pass the eye test to me right now.  I wouldn't be shocked at all if they didn't win the MIAA and are on the bubble come tournament time.

[Ron Boerger]

#2 Trinity (TX) had to go to OT to defeat last year's SCAC conference champion, Centenary (LA) 1-0.   Centenary sat back all night and despite a 9-2 SOG advantage Trinity could not get it past the Gents' keeper until their 10th SOG 4+ minutes into OT.   The winner was a header off a well-delivered free kick from about 30' out that fell perfectly at the top of the 6.

Trinity played without their starting keeper (injury), leading scorer (not sure why but second game out in a week), and an all-conference defender lost for the season to a knee injury (and who scored his first two goals of the season in his last game). 

[SimpleCoach]

I would agree with that. I've seen Calvin twice, not counting about five minutes of watching the Knights pull the wings off of a fly against Finlandia before I switched to another game in disgust. Both of those occasions (Aurora and Carthage) were when the Knights were home at Zuidema, and I was not at all impressed by them.

I would agree, having seen a number of their games as well.  I am not a soccer "expert", but they just don't pass the eye test to me right now.  I wouldn't be shocked at all if they didn't win the MIAA and are on the bubble come tournament time.

Having watched them a few times, the only thing that stood out to me was their center back.  The kid can play.  Other than that, thought they were pretty conventional on how they attacked.  Didn't think they were all too impressive against Chicago.  To me they were a lesser version of Franklin & Marshall.

[PaulNewman]

I'm one of the observers who commented that Calvin may be down a little.  I would just add caution here.  Souders may be the best coach in the country sans-Shapiro at Tufts (and I should say one of the best because there are at least a handful at that level), and come November don't be shocked if the Knights are making another trip to the Final Four.  Twigg is one of the best, most dangerous offensive players in the country.

[PaulNewman]

I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get.  They often sub very little.  Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth.  Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench.  It is D3 soccer after all.  Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.

[PaulNewman]

Some huge results emerging out of the UAA with NYU and Wash U looking strong, both on the road at CWRU and UR respectively.  Last checked Brandeis and CMU were locked up 1-1 and Chicago finally snuck out in front of Emory.

Elsewhere, W&L keeps rolling with another win over rival Lynchburg, Oneonta obliterating Potsdam. F&M adding to Dickinson's misery, Haverford getting a 1-0 OT over Muhlenberg, MIT with major NEWMAC win at Coast Guard, and Wilmington being held to a draw at home versus not so great Heidelberg.

[PaulNewman]

And down goes Augsburg...3-0 deficit with less than 8 left to Johnnies of St. John's.

Not a great day for upstarts Wilmington, Augsburg, and Coast Guard.

[Another Mom]

The W&L win comes playing with 10 men for the last 35 minutes of the game.

[Gregory Sager]

I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get.  They often sub very little.  Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth.  Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench.  It is D3 soccer after all.  Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.

I have absolutely no idea why you think that Calvin's faith orientation ought to affect Ryan Souders' substitution patterns.

[PaulNewman]

I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get.  They often sub very little.  Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth.  Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench.  It is D3 soccer after all.  Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.

I have absolutely no idea why you think that Calvin's faith orientation ought to affect Ryan Souders' substitution patterns.

Should I just ignore this, Greg?  Or were you looking for a response.

I've wildly praised Souders for the past 5-6 years and basically called him the best coach in D3 yesterday, but pick out and focus on whatever you like as I know you will.

[Gregory Sager]

I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get.  They often sub very little.  Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth.  Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench.  It is D3 soccer after all.  Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.

I have absolutely no idea why you think that Calvin's faith orientation ought to affect Ryan Souders' substitution patterns.

Should I just ignore this, Greg?  Or were you looking for a response.

Take it any way that you like. I just don't understand the connection you're making between the Christian faith and how many players a coach chooses to use during a soccer game, that's all.

I've wildly praised Souders for the past 5-6 years and basically called him the best coach in D3 yesterday, but pick out and focus on whatever you like as I know you will.

I didn't say that you criticized Souders as a coach for his recruiting ability or for his tactical skills per se. As you pointed out, you've made it apparent that you respect his coaching acumen. But you were questioning his refusal to sub heavily, in light of the fact that Calvin is a Christian school. And I'm simply puzzled as to how you draw a line connecting Christian doctrine to a coach's substitution patterns.

Messiah does things one way, and good on them for that. But that doesn't mean that every other Christian school's soccer program -- or anything else about the school, for that matter -- has to line up 100% with the way that Messiah does things. Christian schools aren't stamped out by a cookie cutter, and neither are Christian soccer coaches.

Ryan Souders is a Wheaton grad -- and a heckuva former goalkeeper for WC, by the way -- and I am familiar enough with both his alma mater and his current employer to assure you that Calvin does things very differently than Wheaton in myriad ways, soccer and otherwise.

On a personal note, I'm not being hostile and I'm not looking for an argument. I only stated that I'm genuinely puzzled as to how you made that connection. But I'm more than happy to drop this topic. I'm not seeking to wade into troubled waters for either of us.