2021 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Maine Soccer Fan]

I wonder what we got this year with Messiah.  The top Messiah posters have been subdued to understate it, like Flying Weasel and Falconer.  The Falcons seem to be just sitting there at #2 all season quietly waiting until their season becomes relevant right around the Sweet 16.  Meanwhile, Tufts dominates the scene here as the self-proclaimed top program in D3 (and who can argue?) and seem to have the best player at every position in the country as well as the deepest bench.  And W&L is the shiny new kid on the block, basking in a sweep of the polls at #1.

Already an interesting week, with NYU, OWU, and now JHU taking their first losses of the campaign.

Correction....NYU lost to Messiah, but first loss since then.

I just finished watching Messiah beat Alvernia (9-3) very thoroughly - 4-0 (shots 30-4). I've seen Messiah play a few times in person and virtually all of their games via stream. All of the teams that have played them straight up have struggled including NYU; they worked their way (kinda) back into the game after changing formation and playing more conservatively. The teams that have given them problems play a low block and counter, I think that's typical.
The coach is fielding 20+ players a game so they are deep. An interesting development over the past few games is a freshman, #9, is now co-leading the team in scoring. What makes it particularly interesting is that he's a 6'4" converted central defender; scoring goals every which way (read not simply headers off set pieces).
I haven't watched enough of the other top teams to compare Messiah with them, particularly on a player to player basis. What is obvious from the stats and live play is that Messiah have a lot of goals in them.

[Falconer]

I wonder what we got this year with Messiah.  The top Messiah posters have been subdued to understate it, like Flying Weasel and Falconer.  The Falcons seem to be just sitting there at #2 all season quietly waiting until their season becomes relevant right around the Sweet 16.  Meanwhile, Tufts dominates the scene here as the self-proclaimed top program in D3 (and who can argue?) and seem to have the best player at every position in the country as well as the deepest bench. 

OK, I'll take the bait.

I said last month, that this year's version of Messiah was as good as any I have seen at possessing the ball, by putting it consistently into space and running onto it. That was early in the season. I affirm it again, after watching last night's game vs Alvernia in person--my first opportunity to do that in several weeks. (I've seen some of the other games online, including NYU where I said that game seemed like a Final Four level contest.) Well, I haven't changed my mind: this team is right there with the greatest Falcon teams on possession, though not necessarily scoring. The score last night could easily have been 7 or 8 to zip, except for the efforts of Alvernia keeper's and a couple of near misses. The Falcons are in prime form. Also, as Maine Soccer Fan noted, they are deep. The backup striker he/she mentioned, 6'4" true FR Stefan Leitzel, was indeed recruited as a CB but seems to have the instincts and skills of a striker. To see what I mean, watch the final goal in these highlights: https://gomessiah.com/sports/mens-soccer. While you're at it, watch all four goals. Three of them were textbook plays, and two of them (first and last) happened with most of the starters out.

The second goal was created by Luke Groothoff, undoubtedly the best all-around player in the conference. Having now seen Tufts half a dozen times, though not in person, I don't hesitate to say that Tufts doesn't have a player as good as him--no knock on Tufts, who might again win it all. I'm simply responding to PN's deliberately provocative claim. Typically, he's double or triple-teamed when he receives the ball, so he often has opportunities to school defenders. Another huge bright spot for the Falcons is the young CB Ben Vollmer, who went to HS in Penn State's backyard. He was his HS conference POY: https://www.pennlive.com/sports/2018/11/state-colleges-ben-vollmer-leads-list-of-mid-penn-commonwealth-boys-soccer-all-stars.html and all-state. That conference routinely sends players to high D1 schools. Vollmer was a MF in high school, so he understands very well how to initiate attacks from the back line--and he's great at anticipating where he needs to position himself defensively.

That's enough for now.

[Ron Boerger]

Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.

Yep. It's unfortunate, and I suspect that it's a generational thing.

There are so many parts of the D3 landscape that just aren't getting covered. Even a couple quick sentences on these boards from people who are watching games would be welcome.

It used to be that this was one of the few places out there to share information about D3 sports. Today most schools have gotten more sophisticated in their use of social media and their own websites and it apparently meets the needs for many who just want to see how Johnny and his team did in the latest match - not to mention the explosion of free broadcasts (of varying quality, LOL) so you can actually watch in real-time instead of asking others about that play you heard about a day or two later.  As someone who has been here since before the previous incarnation of the d3sports boards (predating d3sports as an entity -  2005 and basically unchanged since) the traffic and discussion pales compared to the glory days here. 

[jknezek]

Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.

Yep. It's unfortunate, and I suspect that it's a generational thing.

There are so many parts of the D3 landscape that just aren't getting covered. Even a couple quick sentences on these boards from people who are watching games would be welcome.

It used to be that this was one of the few places out there to share information about D3 sports. Today most schools have gotten more sophisticated in their use of social media and their own websites and it apparently meets the needs for many who just want to see how Johnny and his team did in the latest match - not to mention the explosion of free broadcasts (of varying quality, LOL) so you can actually watch in real-time instead of asking others about that play you heard about a day or two later.  As someone who has been here since before the previous incarnation of the d3sports boards (predating d3sports as an entity -  2005 and basically unchanged since) the traffic and discussion pales compared to the glory days here.

Even in the last few years the traffic has fallen off a cliff as the generation that started posting in the early 2000s mostly has aged out over the last 10 years, for a variety of reasons. The other problem occurs when the teams that were powers in that era shift down in relevance. Because, let's face it, most posters are active when their teams are good, and disappear when they aren't.

Sadly the teams that have become good just haven't generated a new generation of posters. With COVID last year, which dropped traffic even more, and a lack of football Kickoff magazines for the last 2 years, I keep expecting to come here and find a note from Pat announcing the end. That will be a sad day as there is no other place to discuss D3. There are plenty of places to get D3 news these days, as has been pointed out, but no place to really talk about it except the echo chamber of your own school's Facebook or Twitter feed.

But we do love our echo chambers these days...

[jknezek]

Not sure if this is the proper forum -- but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how long the Coast 2 Coast conference (where CNU, UMW, and Salisbury are members) is going to last .  With essentially no regular season conference schedule, I would think that could negatively impact rivalries, scheduling, and possibly recruiting.

The C2C has also drawn similar questions on the basketball boards on this site. It's transparently a flag of convenience for schools that currently find themselves orphans and who would get into a local league at the drop of a hat if they could. Current NCAA rules allow a league like the C2C to exist without a regular-season conference schedule, so these schools are taking advantage of the loophole to give themselves a chance to win an automatic bid to the D3 tourneys in the various sports the C2C sponsors. I can't blame them for wanting to avoid independent status; being an indie comes with a whole set of headaches, particularly as far as men's soccer is concerned, because there's currently not enough full-member independents to qualify for a so-called Pool B bid to the tourney field.

I hate these conferences. I think it's complete b.s. I understand why schools do it, and more power to them for finding a ridiculous loophole, but I think you should have to have a regular season to award a bid. Something like more than 40% of your games have to be against conference foes. That's not really a high bar in an 18-20 game season. If you don't want a post-season tournament, I'm ok with that. I'd actually prefer soccer to award bids based on the regular season finish, but since many leagues don't play a full round robin (cough, ODAC b.s. -- Randolph not playing W&L this year, cough) that is hard to justify. But these conferences of convenience just annoy me. Luckily there don't need to be many of them, but not stealing an AQ for this b.s. is the whole point of Pool B and the fallback to Pool C.

[PaulNewman]

Sounds like at a minimum all agree that interest and participation are down.  IMO there are any number of reasons coalescing.  For individuals, who knows...marriage, having a kid, a new phase of your children's lives that creates or demands a change in focus and/or interests, work changes, lack of work and having more important concerns to worry about, grad school, etc, etc.  I'm not sure why there aren't more guys like D4 providing great commentary and insight while also pushing his program, but often old parents like myself who probably in some ways have no business still being here maintain more of a maniacal interest then the sons who actually played.  My son still loves Kenyon and Kenyon soccer, and he'll be thrilled if they have great success, but he doesn't have time to follow closely, watch all the games, etc.  He certainly doesn't have the time or level of interest to be posting.

Paul Newman's son..."Geez, Dad, wtf did you do this time?"

Paul Newman..."Whatever you think or might be worried I have done, I did."

I'm actually not that impressed with what most schools provide on their websites and social media.  I'm not aware of more than two to three handfuls of programs that have some combination of well-done recaps, recaps with a coach quote, highlight packages, weekly coach shows, well above average broadcast set-ups, etc.  Some of the ones that did a good job 8-9 years ago are among those still doing a good job.  A majority of schools use that 8th grade template to do recaps.....How It Happened...What's Next...and like one sentence or two for each category.    Kenyon used to do a weekly coach show, as did Oberlin, and I'm sure others still do, but it's not like most programs websites are overflowing with content and more than the most stereotypic information.  And as was suggested, schools where programs are down are going to offer less and those programs aren't likely to have active posters.  If you see someone posting a lot, there's a good chance his or her team is "in the hunt."

Of course over the last two years there has been talk about how many schools might not survive, partly due to the pandemic, and perhaps for some related to political persuasions.  We've seen posts in just the last week about Allegheny, a once consistently decent to good program that appears to be a shell of its former self.

[Ron Boerger]

Even in the last few years the traffic has fallen off a cliff as the generation that started posting in the early 2000s mostly has aged out over the last 10 years, for a variety of reasons. The other problem occurs when the teams that were powers in that era shift down in relevance. Because, let's face it, most posters are active when their teams are good, and disappear when they aren't.

Sadly the teams that have become good just haven't generated a new generation of posters. With COVID last year, which dropped traffic even more, and a lack of football Kickoff magazines for the last 2 years, I keep expecting to come here and find a note from Pat announcing the end. That will be a sad day as there is no other place to discuss D3. There are plenty of places to get D3 news these days, as has been pointed out, but no place to really talk about it except the echo chamber of your own school's Facebook or Twitter feed.

But we do love our echo chambers these days...

A couple of things on the bolded part above:

(1) D3soccer isn't part of the D3sports network, they just use the D3sports board (which doesn't mean much if Pat pulls the plug, but...)
(2) D3sports, which formerly relied on Kickoff for a lot of its annual funding, now has what appears to be a decently supported Patreon, currently with 170 patrons, which is offsetting the loss of Kickoff and advertising revenue from reduced traffic.  I'm sure he wouldn't mind if anyone wanted to throw another cup of coffee (or more) their way each month.  As someone who's been around here since the '90s (and actually cashed a check or two back in the early Kickoff days) I'm one of the 170. 

Absent the Patreon revenue, I fear your concern would have come true already. 

[jknezek]

Even in the last few years the traffic has fallen off a cliff as the generation that started posting in the early 2000s mostly has aged out over the last 10 years, for a variety of reasons. The other problem occurs when the teams that were powers in that era shift down in relevance. Because, let's face it, most posters are active when their teams are good, and disappear when they aren't.

Sadly the teams that have become good just haven't generated a new generation of posters. With COVID last year, which dropped traffic even more, and a lack of football Kickoff magazines for the last 2 years, I keep expecting to come here and find a note from Pat announcing the end. That will be a sad day as there is no other place to discuss D3. There are plenty of places to get D3 news these days, as has been pointed out, but no place to really talk about it except the echo chamber of your own school's Facebook or Twitter feed.

But we do love our echo chambers these days...

A couple of things on the bolded part above:

(1) D3soccer isn't part of the D3sports network, they just use the D3sports board (which doesn't mean much if Pat pulls the plug, but...)
(2) D3sports, which formerly relied on Kickoff for a lot of its annual funding, now has what appears to be a decently supported Patreon, currently with 170 patrons, which is offsetting the loss of Kickoff and advertising revenue from reduced traffic.  I'm sure he wouldn't mind if anyone wanted to throw another cup of coffee (or more) their way each month.  As someone who's been around here since the '90s (and actually cashed a check or two back in the early Kickoff days) I'm one of the 170. 

Absent the Patreon revenue, I fear your concern would have come true already.

I have to admit, I don't spent much time on d3soccer.com. Though I do try and visit the d3 sites, including soccer, and click on a banner or two regularly. 1) it messes with google when I randomly click on things, 2) it supports the sites, though in a very small way. I also am a patreon member, but I use a different username and email since it involves money. This site is woefully insecure!

And I completely agree with the bolded part. Hopefully it is enough. A cup of coffee money per month to come here and post and chat is well worth it to me.

Plus I've built this pretty good vba macro to run and post the two polls I'm doing and I'd hate to see my pet project go to waste! Was thinking I'd even offer to run a national basketball fan poll this year, though I know less about basketball than I do about... well... pretty much anything.

[PaulNewman]

Maybe that explains some of the variance in our takes.  When you said you don't spend much time on D3soccer.com I did a double-take.  I think of the D3 soccer website and the board as very much together and interconnected (even if they aren't).  And even though no one's really doing columns and the like right now, I still use the website quite a bit in terms of seeing scores, finding links to games, looking at team records, box scores, finding things from past years, etc.

[PaulNewman]

My last thought on this topic and I'll try to shut up.

Posting is akin to texting in the sense that affect, intent, sarcasm, lack of sarcasm, humor, etc can be hard to read.  I am surprised that humor isn't used more often and by a broader range of posters.  Sometimes the feel here seems a little too serious or even dour.  With some I can't picture them laughing (like ever) and I often wonder how different they might seem in person.

[jknezek]

Maybe that explains some of the variance in our takes.  When you said you don't spend much time on D3soccer.com I did a double-take.  I think of the D3 soccer website and the board as very much together and interconnected (even if they aren't).  And even though no one's really doing columns and the like right now, I still use the website quite a bit in terms of seeing scores, finding links to games, looking at team records, box scores, finding things from past years, etc.

And now you know why I don't post so much about specific teams or games, other than a few things about W&L. And why I'm not a voter in the poll. I just don't know that much.

I love soccer. Grew up playing from 6 year old rec leagues through ODP tryouts and state championships for club and h.s., right up until Coach Piranhian at W&L was kind enough to tell me his bench wasn't the best place for me to spend probably 3 or 4  years of my college experience. Played on some good W&L club teams instead in college. Came up just short of going to what was then called the Club National Cup. Went back to some bottom tier local men's leagues in my 20s in NYC and then S. FL until my knees gave out. Was always fun being called Blanco on teams that didn't speak English, but they also appreciated that I could actually play a bit.

I hold a D license for coaching, was about to start on my C license when the last kid decided out, I reffed for 6 years as a kid and 10 more in my 20s and early 30s, coached all 3 of my kids when they were little before they moved on to martial arts. I follow the national team, I punish myself by being a NYRB fan, I go to local Birmingham Legion USL games, I love the Champions League and will even suffer through whatever the current cup competitions between MLS and Liga MX are called.

But sitting down to watch D3 soccer over the internet on my tv? Hell, even D1. I just can't do it outside of my alma mater. Even when the D1 College Cup was in town I bought tickets, went to the games, and hated the style. The rules promote a form of soccer that I can't stomach. And there are so few teams like Messiah that play the beautiful game, and so many teams that play kick and foul and run and sub that I just want to scream most of the time.

More power to you guys. And I love your analysis and SimpleCoach's additions this year. You guys are doing a great job with the poll as far as I can tell. But it's just not for me.

[PaulNewman]

Sorry, I got that confused, and I was trying to be humorous when I said "I object" to you and Hopkins declining to be a pollster.  In my mind, myself and others don't have any knowledge or expertise more than I figured you guys did (and after all the poll was your idea!).  Anyway, you and Hopkins are obviously very bright guys, but now I understand better if you aren't on the website much (which is a treasure-trove of info). 

I access the board through the website.  Do others access differently?  I think I also thought that because some of the key players running the website historically have been prime posters as well.

[jknezek]

Sorry, I got that confused, and I was trying to be humorous when I said "I object" to you and Hopkins declining to be a pollster.  In my mind, myself and others don't have any knowledge or expertise more than I figured you guys did (and after all the poll was your idea!).  Anyway, you and Hopkins are obviously very bright guys, but now I understand better if you aren't on the website much (which is a treasure-trove of info). 

I access the board through the website.  Do others access differently?  I think I also thought that because some of the key players running the website historically have been prime posters as well.

I just come straight to the board, d3boards.com. But typically I post more in the football boards than the soccer ones, though I try to maintain a presence here also because soccer is a passion but d3 football is my guilty pleasure to watch.

I volunteered to run the soccer poll because I built the infrastructure for the Region III Fan Poll in football this year and other than putting in the ballots, it is all automated and my time commitment is pretty small. To be fair, Christian Shirk did offer me the spreadsheet he uses for the d3soccer.com poll, even made some changes to it to accommodate my random idea for 20 teams instead of 25, which was very nice, so I may not have had to do much work even if I hadn't already built out my toy.

So I was just hoping to drive some views and discussion in the soccer area. As you may have noticed, I want these boards to remain. If I can do a little bit to drive some views, I will. We lost the laxpower boards for d3 lacrosse a couple years ago and I miss them. I don't want the same thing to happen here.

Anyway, all this is just clogging up these boards off topic. Suffice to say, I enjoy what you guys post and having this community available. I obviously enjoy seeing W&L doing well. But I don't really enjoy watching college soccer. That may seem a bit cold, even harsh to the student athletes who really don't and shouldn't care about my opinion, but everyone has their peculiarities.

[Ron Boerger]

When I start typing d3, d3boards.com is what comes up first ;-)   There are many other sports than soccer represented and it's the easiest way to get to whichever of them I want to post in that day - mostly football, basketball, baseball in that order.

d3soccer *used* to be part of the d3sports empire; it was spun off somewhere between 5-10 years ago so the d3sports folks could focus on the sports that bring them a better return (those three).   I think there used to be a d3hockey.com but it's no longer around, and the d3boards discussion is very inactive.   There's a d3volleyball board too where there are like two of us that post.

[Centennial1]

I've mostly been a lurker over the years. My observation about this year is that, if the quantity is down, the quality of posts is up. Real analysis, good debate. I still enjoy it. Keep it up you nerds!