2021 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Ejay]

Why does the USC bother with polls?

And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.

So if I'm Eastern or Washington College, I'm asking for a recount. 
Region V poll:
4. Eastern (national RV)
5. Washington College (not even RV in national which puts them out of top 40, oh and they beat F&M)
6. F&M (national #24)

[PaulNewman]

Imagine Coast Guard's surprise....#14 nationally but can't crack the Region 1 top 10, but neither did MCLA.  Of course St Joe's, Williams, ECSU, J&W, and Norwich made the Region 1 cut but none could manage to get into RV.

Despite the apparent lack of any coherent internal consistency it is interesting to see the poll used nonetheless as a data base for meaningful inferences and judgments with a presumption that deliberation occurred.

Addendum:  I will concede that whether by design or luck or some odd combo therein that most of the names in the #1 thru at least #15 range are names one would expect to see, while perhaps arguing over the order.  Despite the sterling 8-0 record, #3 seems a little high for St. Mary's without more data, and Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous. 

[blooter442]

Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous.

In keeping with the school's mission, har har har.

[OldNed]

Imagine Coast Guard's surprise....#14 nationally but can't crack the Region 1 top 10, but neither did MCLA.  Of course St Joe's, Williams, ECSU, J&W, and Norwich made the Region 1 cut but none could manage to get into RV.

Despite the apparent lack of any coherent internal consistency it is interesting to see the poll used nonetheless as a data base for meaningful inferences and judgments with a presumption that deliberation occurred.

Addendum:  I will concede that whether by design or luck or some odd combo therein that most of the names in the #1 thru at least #15 range are names one would expect to see, while perhaps arguing over the order.  Despite the sterling 8-0 record, #3 seems a little high for St. Mary's without more data, and Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous.

Paul, you may have missed this but Coast Guard was #1 in Region 2 rankings. I was surprised to see that USCA split New England into 2 regions, but I guess maybe it has something to do with the sheer number of D3 teams in New England.

[PaulNewman]

Imagine Coast Guard's surprise....#14 nationally but can't crack the Region 1 top 10, but neither did MCLA.  Of course St Joe's, Williams, ECSU, J&W, and Norwich made the Region 1 cut but none could manage to get into RV.

Despite the apparent lack of any coherent internal consistency it is interesting to see the poll used nonetheless as a data base for meaningful inferences and judgments with a presumption that deliberation occurred.

Addendum:  I will concede that whether by design or luck or some odd combo therein that most of the names in the #1 thru at least #15 range are names one would expect to see, while perhaps arguing over the order.  Despite the sterling 8-0 record, #3 seems a little high for St. Mary's without more data, and Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous.

Paul, you may have missed this but Coast Guard was #1 in Region 2 rankings. I was surprised to see that USCA split New England into 2 regions, but I guess maybe it has something to do with the sheer number of D3 teams in New England.

ON, thanks.  I did miss that.  Embarrassing if it's always been that way.  Looks like Mid-Atlantic is split into two regions as well, with NYU landing in one of those and not in the East.

At any rate, the new D3 poll looks, per usual, markedly better and on target while acknowledging that it's still early and a fair amount of movement is to be expected over next 2-3 weeks.

[PaulNewman]

MCLA and Union headed to OT.

[Ron Boerger]

Hey, we have a D3soccer.com poll again!

https://d3soccer.com/top25/men/2021/week3

D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 3
Through games of Sunday, September 19, 2021

#   School (1st Pl. Votes)   
1   Tufts (15)   4-0-0   
2   Messiah   4-0-1
3   Washington & Lee   5-0-1
4   Trinity (Texas)   6-0-0   
5   Chicago   5-0-1   
6   Ohio Wesleyan (2)   5-0-1   
7   New York Univ.   5-0-1   
8   Rochester   4-0-1   
9   St. Mary's (Md.)   8-0-0   
10   Middlebury (1)   4-0-0   
11   Calvin   6-1-2   
12   Oneonta State   4-0-1   
13   North Central (Ill.)   8-0-0   
14   Rowan   5-1-0   
15   Montclair State   5-1-1   
16   Coast Guard   6-0-1   
17   Eastern   6-0-0   
18   Cortland State   5-1-1   
19   Carthage   5-1-1   
20   Hope   4-1-1   
21   Otterbein   5-0-0   
22   Franklin & Marshall   4-1-0   
23   Chris. Newport   3-1-2   
24   Johns Hopkins   3-0-2   
25   Amherst   3-1-0   

Receiving Votes: Muhlenberg 178, Augsburg 174, Redlands 160, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 154, Washington U. 141, Bowdoin 137, North Park 112, Roanoke 74, Kenyon 69, Connecticut College 53, Loras 38, St. Olaf 36, Vassar 36, Capital 32, Williams 25, Misericordia 25, Eastern Connecticut 23, Mary Washington 21, Babson 17, Mount Union 17, RPI 13, Gettysburg 13, Maryville (Tenn.) 6, Carnegie Mellon 4

[Another Mom]

I am curious as to why Amherst is either not in the top 25, or quite low in every poll (United Soccer Coaches, Massey,, this one). Didn't they return everyone from 2019, when they were in the final?

I don't have a stake in this, but I paid a fair amount of attention to Amherst as my son went through recruiting. I can't say whether they should be in the top 5 (or whatever) but I find it surprising that they are where they are.

[Mr.Right]

Watched large portions of Emory vs Calvin last night and imo Emory looked every bit as good as Calvin.  And yet, when I looked away in the 105th minute at 0-0 I just knew I would look back in a few minutes and see a 1-0 Calvin win with a goal pulled out of the last 3-4 minutes.  Seemed like a classic, and expected, outcome for both programs. Always pick Calvin in these spots unless they're playing Tufts.  More interested, though, in Emory and the UAA in general.  Emory over the past decade that I've followed seems to have a lot of these types of results, and with the exception of I think one Elite 8 run have had hard luck and ultimately underachieved.  But what a conference the UAA is top to bottom, especially with the improved performance of NYU and CWRU the past few years. 

On another note, I am really impressed with the programs that incorporate a long distance weekend into their schedules.  Grand Rapids to Atlanta is a hike and I'm sure not inexpensive.  Did the Knights fly in on Thursday or same day as the first tilt yesterday?  Possibly a three night stay in Atlanta.  Similar deal with Christopher Newport going to Chicago.  I understand the NESCAC schools not doing these sort of trips with their condensed seasons and shorter schedules, but so many notable programs could throw in at least a trip in the 6-8 hour range or even 3-5 hour range....like Kenyon or Carnegie going to W&L and Lynchburg or to Messiah and F&M or NJ or even Rochester/Cortland/Oneonta/Hobart, etc.  And for the more elite programs who do not typically make such trips, is that more about the coach or larger decisions/resources in athletic departments as a whole?  I think CNU is a state school, and UMass-Boston is certainly a state school that a few years ago traveled to the West Coast (Washington state iirc).

IMO its all about the $$$$...That is why every program needs a "godfather" of some sort...

[Mr.Right]

And time to give a nod to Chicago sitting at 5-0-1.  Also right there with JCU for toughest schedule.  Already has faced Kzoo, Wabash, Macalester, St Olaf, Christopher Newport and Luther.

Next six games....Wheaton, JCU, Calvin, Emory, Carthage, Rochester....followed by the rest of the grueling UAA schedule with a trip to North Park mixed in.

Damn that is an impressive schedule. Any takers going against them finishing with the highest SOS?

[College Soccer Observer]

I am curious as to why Amherst is either not in the top 25, or quite low in every poll (United Soccer Coaches, Massey,, this one). Didn't they return everyone from 2019, when they were in the final?

I don't have a stake in this, but I paid a fair amount of attention to Amherst as my son went through recruiting. I can't say whether they should be in the top 5 (or whatever) but I find it surprising that they are where they are.

The polls seem especially volatile this year.  Regarding Amherst specifically, they have three wins by one goal and a one goal loss in conference to a team they normally beat.  Giammattei has only one goal in 4 games despite a lot of shots, and he only played 32 minutes vs Hamilton in their 1-0 win on 9/18.  Maybe things just are not clicking for them offensively right now.  With the strength of the league, any team that puts up good conference results is going to be fine.  The tough part of their schedule is still in front of them.

[Mr.Right]

Why does the USC bother with polls?

MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.

And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.

Agreed...but MCLA(or North Adams State) were a decent program in the late 1970's and 1980's and made a couple of NCAA Final Four's in the 1970's. Admissions became much harder for athletics when the school switched "names" and raised standards. Men's Hockey was dumped in the early 2000's. The President wanted a different direction in the mid 1990's and looking back he was right because believe me the city of North Adams, MA has benefitted. Of course, Mass Moca and the mayor should be congratulated. Damn that mayor was a horse's ass but he bullied, pushed and prodded to use eminent domain as a threat or sadly a reality. MCLA also started purchasing more land, buildings, etc. Moving historical house after historical house to fit their every need. Sorry a little off track.

[PaulNewman]

I am curious as to why Amherst is either not in the top 25, or quite low in every poll (United Soccer Coaches, Massey,, this one). Didn't they return everyone from 2019, when they were in the final?

I don't have a stake in this, but I paid a fair amount of attention to Amherst as my son went through recruiting. I can't say whether they should be in the top 5 (or whatever) but I find it surprising that they are where they are.

Fair question, especially considering where Amherst finished 2019 and looking at a handful of teams above them (even in the D3 soccer poll) with a loss and a draw or two.  For instance, compare to Calvin which has held its ground/brand value so to speak with three blemishes, although one could retort that Calvin has played more games and thus far has played a tougher schedule.  The D3 poll consistently is by far the best (and imo most accurate) but even there no one should presume that whoever votes goes into a fine-grained analysis three levels deep.  And I truly do not get the hype over Massey.

All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse.  Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.

[PaulNewman]

Why does the USC bother with polls?

MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.

And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.

Agreed...but MCLA(or North Adams State) were a decent program in the late 1970's and 1980's and made a couple of NCAA Final Four's in the 1970's. Admissions became much harder for athletics when the school switched "names" and raised standards. Men's Hockey was dumped in the early 2000's. The President wanted a different direction in the mid 1990's and looking back he was right because believe me the city of North Adams, MA has benefitted. Of course, Mass Moca and the mayor should be congratulated. Damn that mayor was a horse's ass but he bullied, pushed and prodded to use eminent domain as a threat or sadly a reality. MCLA also started purchasing more land, buildings, etc. Moving historical house after historical house to fit their every need. Sorry a little off track.

That is interesting.  I would have never guessed that MCLA (or North Adams State) had been anywhere near a Final Four even 50 years ago. 

[jknezek]

All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse.  Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.

It is good to see another W&L fan on the boards. We are few and far between across all sports! This could be the Generals breakthrough year, but I am very, very interested in Friday's CNU game.  I think we will learn as much about both teams as can be learned in a single soccer game. I am also hoping the last two games opened the scoring floodgates. The Generals looked strong after the Emory game, but finishing chances seems to be very hit or miss this early in the season.