2021 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Hopkins92]

Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.

There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.

That's a pretty remarkable stat!

[d4_Pace]

Just shows how dominant Messiah was. 10 of 13 and then 11 of 16.

[jknezek]

Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.

There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.

That's a pretty remarkable stat!

There are more dynasties in D3 sports than not in my opinion. Men's soccer actually does fairly well compared to other sports, but there is no doubting the Messiah dynasty, especially with my thoughts on soccer not really being a tournament game. An incredible achievement, but not particularly rare in D3. Look at wrestling, 2 champions going back to '94, football just recently added NCC and UMHB after a long duopoly, men's swimming has 3 or 4 champions going back 20 years. NCC in men's cross country. UW-Lax in men's track is a longtime force.

Baseball, men's basketball, men's tennis are fairly diverse with schools being streaky for a few years, but different schools every few years. And that leaves out some of the smaller sports where a few schools really dominate.

Anyway, this is D3. I think, more than any other division, there are ways to create long standing dynasties. Scholarships and scholarship caps are pretty good at spreading out talent at the other NCAA divisions, though obviously we still see dynasties. But in D3, there are all kinds of ways to, within the rules, emphasize one sport, or all sports. It takes a lot of institutional will, and money, and a bit of lightning in the bottle with a coach and recruiting to get established, but with the right will and the right coaching tree, it can be passed on for quite a while.

[Gregory Sager]

Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.

There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.

That's a pretty remarkable stat!

It actually isn't.

Here's how many champions other D3 sports have had over that same 24-year span:

Baseball: 17
Basketball (men): 15
Basketball (women): 13
Cross-country (men): 10
Cross-country (women): 9
Field hockey: 10
Football: 7
Golf (men): 14
Golf (women): 6
Ice hockey (men): 10
Ice hockey (women): 6
Indoor track & field (men): 6
Indoor track & field (women): 10
Lacrosse (men): 9
Lacrosse (women): 9
Outdoor track & field (men): 7
Outdoor track & field (women): 12
Rowing: 6
Soccer (women): 12
Softball: 17
Swimming & diving (men): 3
Swimming & diving (women): 3
Tennis (men): 10
Tennis (women): 9
Volleyball (men): 4
Volleyball (women): 14
Wrestling: 2

[PaulNewman]

Paul I don't think Calvin is anywhere near a lock to get in sitting at number 5 in their region. I have a feeling North Central may be sitting on the board for a long time which means Calvin may not ever come up for discussion.

Understood, but good chance North Central gets the AQ.  I will say the Trine game doesn't help the SoS.  Even a loss with North Central would have provided a big boost there.  I'm gonna guess Calvin gets in especially if Chicago or Wash U gets the UAA AQ.

My bad....lost my mind for a second.  Calvin wouldn't play North Central, but to a lesser degree a game with Hope or KZoo would have helped SoS just a bit.

[Hopkins92]

Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.

There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.

That's a pretty remarkable stat!

It actually isn't.

Here's how many champions other D3 sports have had over that same 24-year span:

Baseball: 17
Basketball (men): 15
Basketball (women): 13
Cross-country (men): 10
Cross-country (women): 9
Field hockey: 10
Football: 7
Golf (men): 14
Golf (women): 6
Ice hockey (men): 10
Ice hockey (women): 6
Indoor track & field (men): 6
Indoor track & field (women): 10
Lacrosse (men): 9
Lacrosse (women): 9
Outdoor track & field (men): 7
Outdoor track & field (women): 12
Rowing: 6
Soccer (women): 12
Softball: 17
Swimming & diving (men): 3
Swimming & diving (women): 3
Tennis (men): 10
Tennis (women): 9
Volleyball (men): 4
Volleyball (women): 14
Wrestling: 2

I find dynasties and that level of consistent success remarkable. I didn't say unprecedented. :-)

[Gregory Sager]

Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.

There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.

That's a pretty remarkable stat!

It actually isn't.

Here's how many champions other D3 sports have had over that same 24-year span:

Baseball: 17
Basketball (men): 15
Basketball (women): 13
Cross-country (men): 10
Cross-country (women): 9
Field hockey: 10
Football: 7
Golf (men): 14
Golf (women): 6
Ice hockey (men): 10
Ice hockey (women): 6
Indoor track & field (men): 6
Indoor track & field (women): 10
Lacrosse (men): 9
Lacrosse (women): 9
Outdoor track & field (men): 7
Outdoor track & field (women): 12
Rowing: 6
Soccer (women): 12
Softball: 17
Swimming & diving (men): 3
Swimming & diving (women): 3
Tennis (men): 10
Tennis (women): 9
Volleyball (men): 4
Volleyball (women): 14
Wrestling: 2

I find dynasties and that level of consistent success remarkable. I didn't say unprecedented. :-)

I think that jk hit the nail on the head:

There are more dynasties in D3 sports than not in my opinion. Men's soccer actually does fairly well compared to other sports, but there is no doubting the Messiah dynasty, especially with my thoughts on soccer not really being a tournament game. An incredible achievement, but not particularly rare in D3. Look at wrestling, 2 champions going back to '94, football just recently added NCC and UMHB after a long duopoly, men's swimming has 3 or 4 champions going back 20 years. NCC in men's cross country. UW-Lax in men's track is a longtime force.

Baseball, men's basketball, men's tennis are fairly diverse with schools being streaky for a few years, but different schools every few years. And that leaves out some of the smaller sports where a few schools really dominate.

Anyway, this is D3. I think, more than any other division, there are ways to create long standing dynasties. Scholarships and scholarship caps are pretty good at spreading out talent at the other NCAA divisions, though obviously we still see dynasties. But in D3, there are all kinds of ways to, within the rules, emphasize one sport, or all sports. It takes a lot of institutional will, and money, and a bit of lightning in the bottle with a coach and recruiting to get established, but with the right will and the right coaching tree, it can be passed on for quite a while.

[Mr.Right]

Paul I don't think Calvin is anywhere near a lock to get in sitting at number 5 in their region. I have a feeling North Central may be sitting on the board for a long time which means Calvin may not ever come up for discussion.

Understood, but good chance North Central gets the AQ.  I will say the Trine game doesn't help the SoS.  Even a loss with North Central would have provided a big boost there.  I'm gonna guess Calvin gets in especially if Chicago or Wash U gets the UAA AQ.

My bad....lost my mind for a second.  Calvin wouldn't play North Central, but to a lesser degree a game with Hope or KZoo would have helped SoS just a bit.

Again....."blocking".....I bet you can "block" without making it look like you are blocking maliciously by pumping up the blocking team without even mentioning the team to be blocked.

[Mr.Right]

UR has barely won half their games. At 8-3-4, and a losing record in the conference, they don't deserve to advance IMO. Even if they beat Emory and are 9-3-4, I'm not taking them.

Yes but in years past they would have been a lock already. So precisely my point. UAA and SUNYAC are different leagues top to bottom and with New Paltz and Oneonta struggling themselves I find it unusual for New Paltz to be ranked ahead of UR this late. New Paltz and probably Oneonta are NOT coming off the board and that was known before this week. Just saying a possible "block". We will see if UR beats Emory what happens

[d4_Pace]

I really don't think there is a conspiracy theory to keep certain teams out. The coaches on the call are actively trying to figure out how to get as many teams from their region into the tournament and then make their ranks accordingly.

[Mr.Right]

Not a conspiracy theory just a hunch that some of these guys have no problem sticking it to a HC they do not like. Like I said you technically could push to "block" by pumping up another program that will not get off the board but is close enough for no one to notice. I could be wrong but I could be right.......Nescac has mandated 4th Officials(not sure if this was mandated from Officials or League) for its games because of so much love between the HC's.....I have also wondered how teams "randomly" appear at the bottom of rankings. As we know the bottom half of these teams in the rankings are not coming off the board. So basically they technically could be used to pump up your teams RvR. Someone asked why Hamilton appeared this week in New England when they missed the Nescac Tournament. This hunch seems more of a stretch to me but certainly not impossible.

[Hopkins92]

This is a pretty random thought, but if I'm head coach of one of these teams, I'm telling them to sit down. Rest your legs, boys. I get standing up in the 10 minutes of a tight game, but it just bugs me that these guys are up on their feet the entire game.

[Mr.Right]

Otterbein v Ohio Northern---1-0 Otterbein in the 66th minute...Otterbein has not lost a game yet? I remember them in an NCAA Final up at SLU I think in 2002. Anyway this game could be a good finish.

[Mr.Right]

Otterbein look very organized in a 4-4-2 and a good team especially on its turf.

[Mr.Right]

FINAL:  Otterbein 1-0 ONU