2021 Game Notes

[jknezek]

I think there is a lot of bias here as a goalkeeper. As a field player I don't think the goalie has any god given right to freedom of movement any more than any other player. As long as they aren't being actively obstructed or bumped while in the air, I don't see anything wrong with crowding the goalie so its more difficult for them to maneuver. In fact I think in most cases goalies have it both ways where they come through and clobber guys and then complain anytime anyone lays a finger on them. Don't think either one of us is wrong but easy to see where playing different positions affects your perspective.

I was never hit as hard, playing soccer, as I was hit by goalkeepers on corners. Elbows, punches, shoves, knees to the back of my legs... good foundation for when I picked up martial arts. The difference is, every time, regardless of how hard a goalie pounds, they complain they were touched and obstructed. It's a no-win position, goalie. I said it last night, hero or goat. But the advantages for a goalie in a physical scrum are high. Inside the 6, they can almost do what they want. So long as a field player doesn't grab a goalie, arms stay mostly down, getting in a goalies way is just fine by me. Even building a wall is fine by me so long as the players are looking for the ball and not the goalie.

[Hopkins92]

I think there is a lot of bias here as a goalkeeper. As a field player I don't think the goalie has any god given right to freedom of movement any more than any other player. As long as they aren't being actively obstructed or bumped while in the air, I don't see anything wrong with crowding the goalie so its more difficult for them to maneuver. In fact I think in most cases goalies have it both ways where they come through and clobber guys and then complain anytime anyone lays a finger on them. Don't think either one of us is wrong but easy to see where playing different positions affects your perspective.

I was never hit as hard, playing soccer, as I was hit by goalkeepers on corners. Elbows, punches, shoves, knees to the back of my legs... good foundation for when I picked up martial arts. The difference is, every time, regardless of how hard a goalie pounds, they complain they were touched and obstructed. It's a no-win position, goalie. I said it last night, hero or goat. But the advantages for a goalie in a physical scrum are high. Inside the 6, they can almost do what they want. So long as a field player doesn't grab a goalie, arms stay mostly down, getting in a goalies way is just fine by me. Even building a wall is fine by me so long as the players are looking for the ball and not the goalie.

I definitely used my knee for protection/to clear space on corners and crosses. I wasn't trying to elbow or punch dudes... You're liable to lose the plot if you're more worried about hurting your opponent than the ball. But if you don't put that knee up, you're asking to get an elbow or kick to your ribs or groin.

[Hopkins92]

I think there is a lot of bias here as a goalkeeper. As a field player I don't think the goalie has any god given right to freedom of movement any more than any other player. As long as they aren't being actively obstructed or bumped while in the air, I don't see anything wrong with crowding the goalie so its more difficult for them to maneuver. In fact I think in most cases goalies have it both ways where they come through and clobber guys and then complain anytime anyone lays a finger on them. Don't think either one of us is wrong but easy to see where playing different positions affects your perspective.

I am absolutely biased!

I hear you and I moved into clarifying the point towards the end of my post. I don't have an issue if guys are going to stand there, it's when they are actively bumping and impeding where it starts to become problematic. Just by the nature of the position, we are left slightly vulnerable, so *I think* there be some measure of protection by the refs.

I also think there's way too much clutching and grabbing on corners among the field players. I once dreamed up a solution for this, which was the ref calling advantage if the defense is doing it and if the team doesn't score, they get to retake the corner. Waaay too many refs won't call the defense for clutching/grabbing because of the result (pk). They seem to have very little problem calling fouls on the offense.

[SimpleCoach]

Ohio Northern v Otterbein
OAC Semifinal Match
Otterbein
Link – OAC Semifinal Game #1
Prediction – Ohio Northern 2, Otterbein 1
Actual Score - Ohio Northern 0, Otterbein 1

   Started watching this about 15 minutes into the game.
   Ohio Northern looks to have the run of play.  Otterbein really can't get a hold of the rock since ONU is being very patient and methodical.
   Ohio Northern had a shot off the cross bar, and Otterbein made the Ohio Northern Keeper show his mettle. 
   13 minutes left in the half.
   ONU has the run of play with Otterbein looking to counter when given the opportunity.  So long as ONU doesn't do something stupid ... like committing stupid fouls close to their 18, they are keeping Otterbein far from goal.
   Halftime.  Pretty even half.  Thought Ohio Northern was the better, and Otterbein a little more playing on the counter.
   Second half
   Right out of the gate Otterbein is going at ONU.
   And 10 minutes in, on a corner, ball gets put inside the six and in the melee, ball goes into the back of the net.  Ohio Northern 1, Otterbein 1.
   Ohio Northern, with an incentive now to get forward has picked up its pace getting forward.  Otterbein is now organized and waiting for ONU to come at them.
   ONU looks a little bit panicked and starting to wasteful with the ball.  Plenty of time left.
   24 minutes left in the half.
   Ohio Northern now has to be careful.  Otterbein is getting dangerous by virtue of ONU pressing forward and committing numbers.
   10 minutes left.  ONU just can't break down Otterbein's defensive posture to create dangerous opportunities.  They just can't get seem to get the ball where they can get a good look on goal.
   Credit to Otterbein that is organized and managing the game very well.
   And ONU Keeper just made a save that could have ended this game outright.  Very impressed by him throughout the season.
   Otterbein is slowing it down as much as they can.
   3 minutes left.
   This game is done unless Otterbein does something impossible, like shoot the ball into their own net.  ONU just can't get dangerous enough.
   Game over.  Otterbein will now play against the winner of Capital v John Carroll that is getting played tonight at 7 pm EST.  Will be painful to watch because of the field at Don Shula stadium. 

[SimpleCoach]

Capital v John Carroll
OAC Semifinal Match
John Carroll
Link – OAC Semifinal Game #2
Prediction – Capital 1, John Carroll 2
Actual Score - Capital 1, John Carroll 4

   Second game of the day for the OAC.  Winner will play Otterbein in the OAC finals.
   First off, think the PBP is outstanding.  If someone from John Carroll is reading this, send along my compliments.
   Ten minutes in and both teams are doing their best to control the ball.  So far evenly matched.
   John Carroll doing a better job of finding their midfielders who can receive the ball, turn and make the next pass out wide, or start working the ball closer to the 18. 
   Capital looks like the team that let in 3 goals against Wilmington.  Just a little soft, a little too forgiving on defense.
   And why the more I think I know about the game, the less I know ... Capital has a long throw that I think is headed in.  Couldn't see it because of video.  Capital 1, John Carroll 0
   John Carroll has picked up the pace on the attack.  Capital, while being very mindful defensively trying not to give JCU any easy opportunities on frame, is quick to get the ball forward when they can.  Trying to catch JCU while they are in transition.
   24 minutes left in the first half.
   Capital has that long throw that must be a but unnerving for JCU now.
   I can't see numbers because it feels like I am watching from the nosebleeds ... but the 3 backs for John Carroll are some of the best I have seen this year.
   And John Carroll gets on the scoreboard with a through ball that is hit low and far post.  Expected more out of the Capital Keeper on that one, to be honest.    Capital 1, John Carroll 1.
   Upon further review, the Capital Keeper was to tight to his near post, and was back peddling.  That explains it. 
   The Capital Keeper is apparently down.  Has to be helped off the field.  And now on crutches...
   8 minutes left.
   Think Capital needs to get to halftime at this point.
   And halftime.  All even at one in Cleveland.
   When John Carroll plays well, they are certainly one of the best in the country.  Play with purpose and conviction.
   The back up Capital Keeper just made a great save of a direct free kick, that went out for a corner.
   And on the ensuing corner, the ball is sent into the six where everyone is jammed in.  Capital Keeper comes out to challenge for the ball but ends up in the back of the net.  Capital 1, John Carroll 2.
   John Carroll is deserving of the goals.  Certainly playing with more of an inclination to get to goal.
   Oh my gosh.  And not even a minute later, Capital concedes an obvious PK.  Defender just leveled a JCU forward who was coming into the box for a one on one with the Capital Keeper.
   John Carroll #23 puts the ball to the Capital Keeper's right.  Guesses the right way but the ball was well struck.  Capital 1, John Carroll 3.
   32 minutes left.
   This is not the Capital that came back from being down by two goals against Wilmington.  And John Carroll is definitely not being careless on defense.
   Capital keeps trying to counter, but John Carroll is really solid right now on both sides of the ball.
   And after a Capital corner kick, John Carroll brings the ball down field catching Capital off balance.  John Carrol player gets the ball out wide at the 18 and takes his man one on one.  Drives a low hard shot from an impossible angle that slides between the Capital Keeper and his near post and find the far post side net.  Capital 1, John Carroll 4.
   10 minutes left in the 2nd half.
   Capital#6 gets a red for retaliating on a foul.  Think it was more a sign of frustration.
    I think John Carroll can go far in the NCAA's.
   4 minutes remain
   John Carroll with host Otterbein in the OAC Finals.
   Over.

[Buck O.]

I think there is a lot of bias here as a goalkeeper. As a field player I don't think the goalie has any god given right to freedom of movement any more than any other player. As long as they aren't being actively obstructed or bumped while in the air, I don't see anything wrong with crowding the goalie so its more difficult for them to maneuver. In fact I think in most cases goalies have it both ways where they come through and clobber guys and then complain anytime anyone lays a finger on them. Don't think either one of us is wrong but easy to see where playing different positions affects your perspective.

I gave you one, but I cannot possibly give you enough karma points for this.  The number of times I've seen keepers complaining bitterly to the ref because the opposing players didn't part like Moses going through the Red Sea to let them go wherever they wish in the 6!  And the number of times I've seen keepers not having to complain bitterly because the ref called a foul on an attacker for committing the sin of failing to leap out of the keeper's path!

Drove me nuts.  Keepers get to use their arms.  They don't get to use a force field.

[SimpleCoach]

I think there is a lot of bias here as a goalkeeper. As a field player I don't think the goalie has any god given right to freedom of movement any more than any other player. As long as they aren't being actively obstructed or bumped while in the air, I don't see anything wrong with crowding the goalie so its more difficult for them to maneuver. In fact I think in most cases goalies have it both ways where they come through and clobber guys and then complain anytime anyone lays a finger on them. Don't think either one of us is wrong but easy to see where playing different positions affects your perspective.

I gave you one, but I cannot possibly give you enough karma points for this.  The number of times I've seen keepers complaining bitterly to the ref because the opposing players didn't part like Moses going through the Red Sea to let them go wherever they wish in the 6!  And the number of times I've seen keepers not having to complain bitterly because the ref called a foul on an attacker for committing the sin of failing to leap out of the keeper's path!

Drove me nuts.  Keepers get to use their arms.  They don't get to use a force field.

@Buck O.  I don't necessarily disagree.  My point is whatever "advantage" a keeper has, use of hands, raising of the knee, and a bit of a "protection" from the ref, is out the window when the 6 is crowded on a corner kick.  Jumping vertically where you need your arms outstretched to catch a ball is not as effective as if you need to jump up to head the ball.  Not to mention, whatever protection or momentum a Keeper gains by jumping with their knee coming up, is also negated. 

I am ok with someone challenging for a ball in the air.  The part where I don't think is right is that most of the players inside the six are picks.  Occupying as much space as possible, preventing someone, in this case the Keeper, from making a movement for the ball.  How is it resolved?  What law can be amended to prevent this?  No idea.  Maybe it just means that refs have to be more aware of it and start calling it.

[d4_Pace]

But why does it need to be resolved. If a player is standing still they have every right to that patch of grass. It is on the goalkeeper to find a way to maneuver around them. There is no reason the goalie should be given a clean path to the ball. If they don't see a way to get around all the players and get to the ball thats fine, stay on your line, and try to make the save.

Players set picks on center backs on corner kicks as well and thats not a foul as long as the player stands still and doesn't go out of their way to impede the center back. The same should apply to goalies.

My next anti-goalie rant is that if they come out to punch the ball but then clobber a guy in the head with their follow through that should be a foul. Its no different than a defender winning the ball in a tackle and then coming over the top into a guy's leg. The only difference is its probably more dangerous.

And while we are on it... There is nothing worse than a goalie making a save and then immediately yelling at the defenders just because a shot was taken. Thats literally your job. Its one thing if someone makes a clear error or pulls out of a tackle but some goalies will scream and their defense any time they are forced to touch the ball. Drives me nuts.

[jknezek]

But why does it need to be resolved. If a player is standing still they have every right to that patch of grass. It is on the goalkeeper to find a way to maneuver around them. There is no reason the goalie should be given a clean path to the ball. If they don't see a way to get around all the players and get to the ball thats fine, stay on your line, and try to make the save.

Players set picks on center backs on corner kicks as well and thats not a foul as long as the player stands still and doesn't go out of their way to impede the center back. The same should apply to goalies.

My next anti-goalie rant is that if they come out to punch the ball but then clobber a guy in the head with their follow through that should be a foul. Its no different than a defender winning the ball in a tackle and then coming over the top into a guy's leg. The only difference is its probably more dangerous.

And while we are on it... There is nothing worse than a goalie making a save and then immediately yelling at the defenders just because a shot was taken. Thats literally your job. Its one thing if someone makes a clear error or pulls out of a tackle but some goalies will scream and their defense any time they are forced to touch the ball. Drives me nuts.

This. 100%. A set of offensive players holding ground to make a goalie go around or unable to charge a ball is NOT a problem. Grabbing, holding, moving to impede when not playing the ball IS a problem. But the goalie has no right in the laws of the game to have an unimpeded path to the ball just because they are the goalie. Defenders body up to the attackers all the time. Attackers body up to defenders. Goalies can and should expect to be bodied up the same way.

As for the goalies screaming their heads off... this drives me nuts also. As a centre back and captain in h.s. I told our prima donna goalie to pipe down more than once. If he was being constructive that's fine. If a problem appeared more than once, that's fine. Directing players on the field for walls and picking up runners is fine. But screaming after every shot is, and always will be, ridiculous.

[Hopkins92]

I think we're all actually in agreement, IF we settle on "it's fine for any number of players to stand wherever they want on corners, they just shouldn't be allowed to move with the sole purpose of obstructing the goalie's movement."

That is, obviously, where the rubber meets the road in this discussion. If everyone is going for the ball, fair play and move on. I don't want to put words in SC's mouth, but for my part, I'm objecting to crowding the six and at least one, often two players are sent to knock the goalie around with no real intent to play the ball.

[SimpleCoach]

But why does it need to be resolved. If a player is standing still they have every right to that patch of grass. It is on the goalkeeper to find a way to maneuver around them. There is no reason the goalie should be given a clean path to the ball. If they don't see a way to get around all the players and get to the ball thats fine, stay on your line, and try to make the save.

Players set picks on center backs on corner kicks as well and thats not a foul as long as the player stands still and doesn't go out of their way to impede the center back. The same should apply to goalies.

My next anti-goalie rant is that if they come out to punch the ball but then clobber a guy in the head with their follow through that should be a foul. Its no different than a defender winning the ball in a tackle and then coming over the top into a guy's leg. The only difference is its probably more dangerous.

And while we are on it... There is nothing worse than a goalie making a save and then immediately yelling at the defenders just because a shot was taken. Thats literally your job. It's one thing if someone makes a clear error or pulls out of a tackle but some goalies will scream and their defense any time they are forced to touch the ball. Drives me nuts.

Maybe its just applying the letter of the law more closely.  I don't think we should enable something that goes against the intent of those same laws.  Again, its one of those things that I watch that just seems like it has taken on a whole new level of absurdity to me.

Regarding the Jordan Pickford wannabee's of the world.  I despise them and give the rest of us a bad name.  I've long held that to be a leader on the field you need to take responsibility, always be positive and to be a coach of sorts helping other players figure out the game.  Otherwise you look small and petty.  Not something I want in a goalkeeper.

[College Soccer Observer]

My two cents here.  Will declare my biases up front.  I was a center back when I played, I have officiated college soccer for over 30 years, I coach high school varsity, and my son is an excellent college goalkeeper.

Part of set piece design is how to prevent athletic goalkeepers from getting to the ball.  Every player is entitled to the space they are standing in.  Placing a lot of players around the goalkeeper with the instruction to beat the keeper to the ball is totally legal.  Goalkeepers have decisions to make about whether or not to come for the ball. 
 
It drives me crazy as a coach when attackers get involved with pushing and shoving and give the ref a chance to make a call coming out.  As a ref, I can't stand when defenders start shoving attackers away from the goalkeeper.

My son is big and athletic, but he handles his own business and does not act like a prima dona and beg refs for protection.  He also does not scream at his defenders when a shot is allowed or even when a goal is scored.  Trash talking the attackers on the other team is a different story

[Hopkins92]

I was pretty vocal, but almost always in 2 scenarios: sorting out my defenders on counterattacks and marking up on set pieces/setting the wall and 2) Mild-mannered "s" talking when the opposition took a shot from distance. I was always slightly offended by that, and I let them know.

I was VERY self-critical and was upset about almost every goal because I truly felt I should be able to stop just about everything coming my way. But that was taken out on a goalpost and not my teammates. I left that up to my coaches.

[SimpleCoach]

Franklin & Marshall v Washington
Centennial Conference Semifinals Game #2
Washington
Link – Centennial Conference Semifinals Game Two
Prediction – Much to my chagrin ... Franklin & Marshall 2, Washington 1
Actual Score - Franklin & Marshall 0, Washington 1

   8 minutes left in the half.  Sorry, had my own practice to attend to.  No goal in the game thus far.
   On the one hand, Washington needs to play the ball on the ground, and not get caught up in Franklin & Marshall Neanderthal Ball.  On the other hand, every time Washington plays the ball on the ground trying not to get caught up in Franklin & Marshall's Neanderthal Ball, Franklin & Marshall is so good at Neanderthal Ball that they lose the ball in dangerous spots.
   Having said that, there have been a couple of stretches where Franklin & Marshall could only chase the ball.
   F&M is very capable of capitalizing on opportunities they do have to get in the box and have had their moments of being dangerous.
   Halftime.  Franklin & Marshall 0, Washington 0.  45 minutes for glory.
   I do find it interesting the F&M puts 1 or 2 forwards at the 18 so Washington can't play it short and invariably has to send it long.
   Both teams are prone to some errors in the back that can be capitalized on.  Washington is guilty of some lax marking, and F&M guilty of diving in.
   I know I jest a lot about Franklin & Marshall's style of play. I truly despise it, probably because they do have some capable players out there who aren't allowed to be the best soccer players they could be.  When F&M get to "play from the front," they have a couple of guys in the middle who can really move the ball.
   Washington is doing what I would have done for a game like this.  Get back defensively, keep the ball in front, and make them beat you on the ground.  Its stretching F&M out and susceptible to quick counters, which is what Washington is trying to do.
   The worst thing you can do to F&M is make them play the ball.
   Washington needs to clean up their passing in the back, otherwise F&M will do what they love to do ...
   By the by, the PBP is again, excellent.  Very impressed.  If someone from Washington is reading this, pass along my compliments.
   This was actually a real good play.  F&M Keeper sends it long, its skimmed off the head of a forward to another F&M forward who one times the ball from 35 yards.  The Washington Keeper was well out of his goal and if the ball went on target, F&M would be ahead. 
   Washington is trying to play in tight spaces but should be using as much of the space as possible when they have the ball.  Make F&M run, otherwise you are making it too easy for F&M.
   Washington is playing with fire.  Lack of possession and some  bad defending, F&M is getting dangerous.
   F&M just suffocates Washington whenever they get the ball.
   18 minutes left in the second half.
   Both teams go through phases of careless and atrocious technique on the ball.  Some stretches are painful to watch.  Seems its been that way for the last ten minutes or so.
   When the ball is in the air, it's not a 50/50.  It's 100/0 for F&M.
   Washington wins the ball .. then loses it on a bad touch or bad pass.
   And that's the half.  On to OT.
   And we are off.... Washington trying to keep some control of the ball.  First couple minutes of OT, F&M has only had a couple touches on the ball, most of the play has been in their half as a result.
   And there you go.  Missed pass by F&M gets a Washington forward into the box with the ball.  Shoots/passes the ball across the front of the goal.  F&M Keeper doesn't get his hands on it, and Washington#25 buries it in the back of the net.  And F&M#66 who was right there, and actually looked at his man as he was making his run, let the ball go by him instead of trying to clear the ball.  Franklin & Marshall 0, Washington 1.
   Upon further review, between F&M Keeper and F&M#66, F&M#6 with the bad pass that got cut off, there is plenty of blame to go around.  Definitely think the F&M Keeper should have gotten his hands on the ball, if not outright catch it.  Even if its only enough to parry it, Washington#25 would have over run the ball.
   Washington now faces Gettysburg for the Centennial Conference Tournament Championship.

[Mr.Right]

But why does it need to be resolved. If a player is standing still they have every right to that patch of grass. It is on the goalkeeper to find a way to maneuver around them. There is no reason the goalie should be given a clean path to the ball. If they don't see a way to get around all the players and get to the ball thats fine, stay on your line, and try to make the save.

Players set picks on center backs on corner kicks as well and thats not a foul as long as the player stands still and doesn't go out of their way to impede the center back. The same should apply to goalies.

My next anti-goalie rant is that if they come out to punch the ball but then clobber a guy in the head with their follow through that should be a foul. Its no different than a defender winning the ball in a tackle and then coming over the top into a guy's leg. The only difference is its probably more dangerous.

And while we are on it... There is nothing worse than a goalie making a save and then immediately yelling at the defenders just because a shot was taken. Thats literally your job. Its one thing if someone makes a clear error or pulls out of a tackle but some goalies will scream and their defense any time they are forced to touch the ball. Drives me nuts.

This is hilarious. Like the D4PACEMAKER with a fantastic idea for a book. Need a strong title. "GK's from hell" or "Why do we need this GK?" Need a strong title. We can get Lax and Hockey as well with more complaints(concerns?). We would have a full and readable book and with more eyeballs because of the 3 Sports. Majority v Minority...why not everyone else is doing it....I will say IMO the GK can see the field and "his" defense better than any other. This can lead to becoming the Coach on the field. Some GK's and field players need to be controlling and vocal to play at their best. Some kids not so much and still others who respond well / not so well to vocal barking. Every kid is a bit different during the flow of a game so it is up to the field player either not to be quite so sensitive to every little chirp or talk 1v1 with GK to air "sh*t" out and get on a somewhat similar page. This is just a communication breakdown that can and must be fixed.