2021 Game Notes

[Ejay]

I've always been on the fence about Neanderthal ball, the NESCAC style, etc.  Last I checked, they keep score in this game and the object is to score more than the other team. So while I find a lot of teams unwatchable, they're certainly effective at winning games which is ultimately what you'll remember. But I think there's some kind of middle ground that's the sweet spot - I just don't know where it is.

This is the same reason I sometimes struggle with the youth trainers who work primarily on 1-2 touch drills and rarely practice shooting or scrimmage.  Sure you're helping 9 year old Johnny become a better passer of the ball, but Johnny is not going to be a professional, statistically won't likely play in high school or college either, and for the most part just wants to score goals and run around the field with his friends.  9 year old Johnny is not going to learn to love the game because he's learned to play out of the back. And 30 year old Johnny is never going to have this conversation:

Mikey: Did you play soccer growing up?
Johnny: Yes
Mikey: Did you have fun? What do you remember most?
johnny: Our team played the game beautifully. You should have seen our composure in the defensive 3rd and our off the ball movement in the attack.

[jknezek]

I've always been on the fence about Neanderthal ball, the NESCAC style, etc.  Last I checked, they keep score in this game and the object is to score more than the other team. So while I find a lot of teams unwatchable, they're certainly effective at winning games which is ultimately what you'll remember. But I think there's some kind of middle ground that's the sweet spot - I just don't know where it is.

This is the same reason I sometimes struggle with the youth trainers who work primarily on 1-2 touch drills and rarely practice shooting or scrimmage.  Sure you're helping 9 year old Johnny become a better passer of the ball, but Johnny is not going to be a professional, statistically won't likely play in high school or college either, and for the most part just wants to score goals and run around the field with his friends.  9 year old Johnny is not going to learn to love the game because he's learned to play out of the back. And 30 year old Johnny is never going to have this conversation:

Mikey: Did you play soccer growing up?
Johnny: Yes
Mikey: Did you have fun? What do you remember most?
johnny: Our team played the game beautifully. You should have seen our composure in the defensive 3rd and our off the ball movement in the attack.

But the only reason the other style works is because of our substitution rules. If college and h.s. fell in line with international rules, and even higher level club competition rules, you couldn't play kick and run and win. Johnny learning to play the right way is what U.S. Soccer wants because it is what U.S. Soccer needs. Johnny learning how to bash and smash and sprint for 10 minutes at a time is only effective because we insist on our brand of domestic soccer.

It's a catch 22. By the time kids are good enough to be identified and added to Academies and National Programs, 12 or 13 at the earliest, though I know the academies have younger teams it's almost pointless to project athletic abilities of pre-pubescent children, it's too late to re-teach them soccer. So we have to teach them soccer when they are young, if we have any chance of developing good players, and then watch our middle school, high school and college coaches ruin the hard work.

Thankfully fewer and fewer of our elite prospects are choosing to be ruined, instead staying with Academies and simply taking college courses. Because playing in h.s. and college is a dead end for the elite. Everyone else? Sure, once you hit 14 or 15 and it's clear you are simply very, very good but not elite, knock yourself out. It's easy to go back to kick and run to fit in on a h.s. or college team, and if you have any kind of speed and size, those coaches will happily take you.

[SimpleCoach]

I've always been on the fence about Neanderthal ball, the NESCAC style, etc.  Last I checked, they keep score in this game and the object is to score more than the other team. So while I find a lot of teams unwatchable, they're certainly effective at winning games which is ultimately what you'll remember. But I think there's some kind of middle ground that's the sweet spot - I just don't know where it is.

This is the same reason I sometimes struggle with the youth trainers who work primarily on 1-2 touch drills and rarely practice shooting or scrimmage.  Sure you're helping 9 year old Johnny become a better passer of the ball, but Johnny is not going to be a professional, statistically won't likely play in high school or college either, and for the most part just wants to score goals and run around the field with his friends.  9 year old Johnny is not going to learn to love the game because he's learned to play out of the back. And 30 year old Johnny is never going to have this conversation:

Mikey: Did you play soccer growing up?
Johnny: Yes
Mikey: Did you have fun? What do you remember most?
johnny: Our team played the game beautifully. You should have seen our composure in the defensive 3rd and our off the ball movement in the attack.

Agreed @Ejay.  One of the things I really enjoy about soccer is that the game and player sort of dictate how it will be played so you can have a big range of styles.  I like them all.  There are a few teams though that offend my sensibilities for some reason, probably because it is so far removed from anything that does resemble soccer.  I would put F&M in that category.

I don't think Johnny needs to learn to play out of the back, but I do think he needs to learn how to play.  Has to learn to love having the ball at his feet.  Learn to love the idea of working off the ball to get the ball, and to freely give the ball away to a teammate that may be able to do something better with the ball. 

[d4_Pace]

Yeah the college substitution rules are just dumb. I guess they help incentivize increased participation with more people getting game time but that seems like a weird goal for this level of play.  I've seen arguments in the past that it may help reduce injuries, but I think the increased physical nature of play it encourages just leads to different types of injuries not an overall decrease.

The biggest effect of the rules is a leveling of the playing field. Teams are able to counter deficits in ability by throwing bodies at the problem that can press and defend in 15 minute power shifts.

[SimpleCoach]

Goucher v Catholic
Catholic
Bias? – I know the outcome but will just be basing my observations on the first half.
Link –   Catholic v Goucher

   Landmark contest.
   Ok.  Why do teams, at the kick off, drop it back for the player to then boot it down to the outside back?  Well, Goucher taps the ball back, the player puts his head down and hits it toward Catholic#31 who is the right back.  He proceeds to chest the ball down right to Goucher#22 who takes a touch into the box, takes a shot that hits the side net.  That's why teams do it.
   If I were the Catholic coach, that would have merited a substitution.  I am not said coach.
   Not even 45 seconds in and the Catholic defense is nowhere.  Ball set long to a forward who is one on one with the Catholic Keeper, who makes the save on the shot.  Score should be 2-0 for Goucher already.
   Goucher doesn't even pretend to play short. 
   Catholic#4, Catholic#31, and Catholic#15 should be pressed every time the ball goes to them.  There first touch is always HEAVY.
   If I am the Goucher coach, I man mark Catholic#7 tight, and Catholic#12 tight.  That's where the threats are will be created from.  I would also put a lid on Catholic#18 who is connecting the back line and the attacking mids. 
   There is a large gap between Catholic back and the midfield that Goucher could exploit... if they could.
   Goucher wisely lets Catholic play with the ball in the back.  Once it crosses midfield, they close everything down.  Goucher is managing to get a bit dangerous when they win the ball and get forward.  By no means is Catholic's defensive posture invulnerable.
   Catholic#29, despite his size, is prone to dive in on challenges.  Goucher#11 just dropped him with a cut back and had an attempt on goal that let to a corner.
   Catholic is more organized and better on the ball than Goucher.  Goucher is wasteful with whatever opportunities they have with the ball.
   Catholic just had a golden opportunity to score a point-blank shot.  Catholic#7 runs with the ball then passes it out wide to Catholic#15 who drives it across the box.  Goes across the 6 about knee height.  Catholic#6 is on the end of it who swings with his right foot, and it comes off his foot and goes behind him.  I think that defied the laws of physics.  Should have been a goal.
   Goucher on corner can put 2 players at near, four in the back spread out in a line.  With one at the top of the box.  Another player about 30 yards out at the top of the box.  This is for an inswinger. 
   Catholic sets up with 8 players inside the six, and one at the PK spot.
   And like that, Goucher gets one on a set piece.  Goucher#7 who is one of the players at the near post, goes up free and heads the ball in from 3 yards out.  Goucher 1, Catholic 0.
   Catholic has a Keeper problem.  No way should he not been there on that ball.
   Catholic#4 delivers a terrible ball to Catholic#18 that gets picked off by Goucher#11 who goes to goal, takes a shot and Catholic Keeper makes a kick save.  If I were the Catholic coach, I would make a sub.
   In the first half alone, Goucher had, aside from the goal, 3 clear opportunities to score.  And dare I say, should have been goals.  Catholic has had one.  By my count, should be 4-1 Goucher.
   And again, nice combination play up top from Goucher that leads to a close range shot that the Catholic Keeper saves.  This was the result of Catholic#20 from taking too many touches into pressure.
   Catholic#20 vindicates himself with a nice run far post where he is slotted and one times a ball to the back of the net.
   Halftime with this one at 1-1. Goucher 1, Catholic 1. 

[Gregory Sager]

But the only reason the other style works is because of our substitution rules. If college and h.s. fell in line with international rules, and even higher level club competition rules, you couldn't play kick and run and win. Johnny learning to play the right way is what U.S. Soccer wants because it is what U.S. Soccer needs. Johnny learning how to bash and smash and sprint for 10 minutes at a time is only effective because we insist on our brand of domestic soccer.

It's a catch 22. By the time kids are good enough to be identified and added to Academies and National Programs, 12 or 13 at the earliest, though I know the academies have younger teams it's almost pointless to project athletic abilities of pre-pubescent children, it's too late to re-teach them soccer. So we have to teach them soccer when they are young, if we have any chance of developing good players, and then watch our middle school, high school and college coaches ruin the hard work.

Thankfully fewer and fewer of our elite prospects are choosing to be ruined, instead staying with Academies and simply taking college courses. Because playing in h.s. and college is a dead end for the elite. Everyone else? Sure, once you hit 14 or 15 and it's clear you are simply very, very good but not elite, knock yourself out. It's easy to go back to kick and run to fit in on a h.s. or college team, and if you have any kind of speed and size, those coaches will happily take you.

Yeah the college substitution rules are just dumb. I guess they help incentivize increased participation with more people getting game time but that seems like a weird goal for this level of play.  I've seen arguments in the past that it may help reduce injuries, but I think the increased physical nature of play it encourages just leads to different types of injuries not an overall decrease.

The biggest effect of the rules is a leveling of the playing field. Teams are able to counter deficits in ability by throwing bodies at the problem that can press and defend in 15 minute power shifts.

I would suggest that the phrase "incentivize increased participation with more people getting game time" may be the key to why the substitution rules are the way that they are at the D3 level. Offering various sports has always been a means of getting students on D3 campuses, and with the financial pressures that institutions of higher education are under these days, this fact has turned athletic departments at a great many D3 schools -- particularly the tuition-driven ones, which make up a large percentage of D3's membership -- into de facto arms of their schools' admissions departments. In fact, many schools impose recruitment quotas upon their coaches that they have to meet each year.

This not only impacts the number of players that you're bringing in each season, it impacts retention as well. It's especially tough if your program doesn't have a reserve/JV team to act not only as a developmental vehicle but as a release valve to keep players who are not in the varsity rotation from being frustrated over the fact that for them soccer is all practice and no participation. And if you do have a reserve/JV team, and you've got a freshman who is very promising but isn't ready for varsity play, you're going to want to give him as much time in reserve/JV games as possible, which cuts into possible game time for other players and increases pressure upon the sophomores, etc. You might find yourself trying to hold on to as many of your players as possible in a way that causes the least amount of damage to your program as possible, and that might mean turning all of those warm bodies into cannon fodder that you can throw out there and play high-pressure, dump-and-chase soccer for what d4_Pace aptly describes as "15-minute power shifts."

Just suggesting the possibility that this ugly style of soccer may be an artifact of outside forces acting upon the soccer program.

[College Soccer Observer]

Chiming in here on substitution rules

1.  According the NCAA by-laws, you cannot have different playing rules (i.e. sub rules) for different divisions.  When the coaches were last surveyed in 2018, the only group where a majority wanted to further limit substitutions was Division I and II men.  DIII men and all divisions for women were opposed.
2.  For many schools outside of D1, large rosters sizes are a financial benefit for the instutition because it draws students to the school.  More tuition paying students is generally seen as a good thing.

[Gregory Sager]

Chiming in here on substitution rules

1.  According the NCAA by-laws, you cannot have different playing rules (i.e. sub rules) for different divisions.  When the coaches were last surveyed in 2018, the only group where a majority wanted to further limit substitutions was Division I and II men.  DIII men and all divisions for women were opposed.
2.  For many schools outside of D1, large rosters sizes are a financial benefit for the instutition because it draws students to the school.  More tuition paying students is generally seen as a good thing.

Exactly. And this illustrates how D3 athletics differs from D1 and D2 not just in structure but in institutional utility and methodology.

[SimpleCoach]

Washington v Swarthmore
Washington
Bias? – Watched both multiple of times.
Link – Washington v Swarthmore

   Must be something in the water.  Not even 20 seconds in and Washington comes down the field, passes it out to the left and has a one on one with the Swarthmore Keeper.  Buries it from about 8 yards out. Washington 1, Swarthmore 0
   Swarthmore, despite the goal, is trying to control the tempo of the game.
   Not trying to be critical but finding this hard to watch because of the video feed.
   Pretty even match from what I can see.  Each trading possession for stretches.  Washington is a bit more direct than Swarthmore.
   Don't think this is the more interesting of games.  A game of the midfield and trying to break down the other team.
   Swarthmore just had its first real look at goal.  Pass down the right side, crossed in, Washington Keeper with a save, and the rebound is cleared off the line.  Swarthmore starting to find gaps.
   Washington is also finding some gaps in Swarthmore's back line.  Getting interesting.
   As it approaches halftime, will say the Washington Keeper has come up big a number of times this half.  Just made a save on a volley right on the line that's world class.
   Going to call this one short at half.  Washington 1, Swarthmore 0.
   Think I am done for today.

[PaulNewman]

I love it.  You can tell individual and collective blood pressures are rising as we get into the "serious" portion of the season.

Sorry to add to the detour here in this thread but gotta push back just a little on these quality of play, substitution, and alphabetical rankings debates which mostly have been tilted to one side.

I find the "kick and run" and all the iterations on that to be a default stance that is just a bit lazy and almost meme-ish.  I'm sure others disagree, but level of competition as I've said IMO accounts for 70-80% of that.  Not to pick on any one team, but playing Finlandia can make you look like Barca, and playing a very good team, especially one with superior athletes that presses, can make you look like a town U12 squad.  I also enjoy (as long as my team isn't the victim) a tournament battle where an overmatched team plays their collective hearts out defending while hoping for a luck goal or taking the game to PKs.  Anyway, and I'm gonna keep saying this, it's D3....no matter how much we love it or how great we think our team or some other team is, it's still D3.  Also wanted to add that at least for me watching on stream vs in person makes a huge difference.  I would think teams looked awful on video and in person I'm always impressed by the speed of the game, the overall skill of many players, how little time they have on the ball with opponents running up their back and doubling them, etc.

I really, really disagree with the substitution complaints, on multiple levels.  Many of the best teams, including Tufts, Messiah, OWU, Kenyon, etc routinely use 18-19 players....not as charity, but because that helps them WIN.  Secondly, I would argue that a happy team is a team more likely to win and to win in big spots.  It's not like it isn't restrictive...you come out in 1st half and you can't go back in.  You can go back in once in the second half.  Not sure why some are convinced that "at this level" (with implication being that's a high level) means D3 soccer should mimic La Liga or even that D3 soccer has anything to do with the USMNT or anything close to that.  If the soccer is just too "ugly" for ya, then don't watch lol.

I'll admit I don't get carrying super-large rosters, but I accept that there is something to the bringing in tuition model out of necessity.  That might explain why colleges do that, but not sure why a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds fall for it.  Saying I could be on a roster I'd never play on, or maybe get some minutes on the reserve squad, or get a kit even if I get to take it home, would not be decisive for me in choosing school X or school Y.  I mean, in that case, there are a ton of schools worthy of getting an education at, and if being on a varsity sports team is THAT important to ya then why not go to a similarly good school where you're more likely to actually play?  But to each his own.

As for the alphabetical rankings.....seems like a non-starter as far as being an issue.  Is waiting a week to see what number your team comes in at that hard?  I mean D4, come on, are you really unsure about where Tufts stacks up???

[PaulNewman]

I would also just add that the margins of difference especially on the better teams (but maybe also the not so good) between players can be razor thin...like between the bottom half starters and the next 5-6, and between the first 5-6 subs and the 5-6 after them.  I especially feel for GKs who go to a school and sit all 4 years.

We literally just read from D4 that Cano, the clear man of the match for Tufts and a challenger to Aroh for most key player, didn't get to play that much his first couple of years.  One would think he at least had to think there was a good chance he eventually would get the playing time I'm sure he always wanted.

[SimpleCoach]

Think everyone is raising good points.  Sorry I unknowingly stirred the pot with my comments about Neanderthal ball played by Franklin & Marshall.

I will say from my own experience, D3 is not professional nor should we expect it to be.  I get why substitutions are the way they are and I think that's fine.  Do I think it changes how teams play, I am sure of it.  But I do think it is a good thing that more than just 11 kids get to play.

Having said that, does it mean I have to like how a team plays?  No.  I was being specific to Franklin & Marshall.  There are teams I like, teams I don't.  I don't care that they win or not.  To me it's about aesthetics.  In F&M's case however, I am burned by some of the nonsense they put out as guides for how they want to play... Build from the Front nonsense.  I mean, read some of this and then watch them play ... Dip Soccer Blog

Anyhow, love seeing this thread discuss issues of the game.  It's what I hoped I would find here.

[PaulNewman]

RE:  too many substitutions as a primary cause of poor soccer...

Let's just take the top 3...Messiah, the consensus/unanimous "play the best soccer" team in D3 has been playing 23...as in twenty-three.

W&L has been playing between 17-21.  Tufts has been playing 17-18 and that's with two players in the usual rotation out with injuries.

[jknezek]

RE:  too many substitutions as a primary cause of poor soccer...

Let's just take the top 3...Messiah, the consensus/unanimous "play the best soccer" team in D3 has been playing 23...as in twenty-three.

W&L has been playing between 17-21.  Tufts has been playing 17-18 and that's with two players in the usual rotation out with injuries.

No one has said you can't do it, most teams just don't because it is easier to play kick and run with near endless fresh bodies.

[d4_Pace]

I don't think the argument is that unlimited substitutions prevents you from playing "good" soccer its that it allows you to get away with the other style. If you have the talent and depth then you can certainly play 23 guys who all know how to keep possession, play your system, etc. But if you are only only allowed to play 15 guys you are not going to try to press for 90 minutes win second balls etc.

That being said the trade off is then that those lessers teams will adapt again and would probably end up just sitting deeper, defending their box and looking to counter even more so than they do now. 

Ultimately I think your point about talent gaps dictating style is a very good one. Messiah keep the ball like no one else but ultimately no one in DIII is Barcelona or City. I think if we get a Messiah Tufts rematch Messiah's possession will suddenly seem a little less pristine (they probably would still have the ball 55/60% of the time it just would be a little less comfortable).