UAA soccer 2021

[Maine Soccer Fan]

From a ref's point of view there is another way to handle it. All chatter from the bench redounds to the head coach. "I heard something head coach. I'm not absolutely certain who said it so the red is yours head coach."

[blue_jays]

A few quick thoughts on last night's NYU/WashU tilt...

NYU was the better team last night, and perhaps every night...the Violets are physical, they have skill, and they were quicker than WashU.  That was readily apparent when WashU's methodical passing game approach to its offense was more often scrapped in favor of the long-pass launches from the backs.  NYU effectively suffocated WashU's intent to move the ball skillfully upfield.

As a result of all that, WashU fell into the trap of hoping that the officials would help them level the playing field.  Lots of on-field complaining, and perhaps for good reason.  But, that gets in the way of trying to find a way on the field to be more creative...or to at least get in the penalty area with regularity to where you might get a penalty called on the vigorous Violets.

And the officiating crew was clearly not up to the challenge of legislating a match in which both teams like the rough-and-tumble and the chirping from players that sometimes goes with that.  I feel for the crew, because that was a very difficult match to officiate.  My biggest issue was the frequent stoppages of play, so the lead official could scold players like he was a father or a teacher trying to plead and implore them to change their behavior.  That resulted in a scheduled 90-minute match to go well past two hours--without overtime.  At some point, the lead official needed to stop scolding and issue more yellow cards.  That would've eventually caused a 1 + 1 = red card situation or two that would have gotten the players' attention and desired behavior modification, IMHO.

As an addendum to Jay's observations, NYU continued their streak of goonery today at UChicago. The Maroons kept #9 bottled up as much as possible and the visitors couldn't find any other offensive answers. The Violets were outclassed at every turn and trailing 2-0, they resorted to whining and hard fouling the rest of the way. Unfortunately for UChicago, they took the bait too much in the second half as their frustration with the foul/lack of foul calls got the better of them. Yellow card count for players was 4 for NYU and 3 for UChicago. HC Flinn got 2 yellows and was shown the exit, unfairly in my eyes. The AR got him the 2nd card when it was not warranted.
The officials were pretty abominable all told, and got worse as the game went on, the lack of control was evident. Center ref seemed to miss every hand ball and was very inconsistent in establishing what a real foul was when he constantly let stuff go inexplicably. It was no wonder Flinn got heated.
Final impressions: When UChicago scores, they are the best team in the league, full stop. That Brandeis result will haunt them hard if they're on the Pool C bubble. NYU got kinda exposed today, but there isn't anyone left on their schedule who can replicate UChicago's ball skills. NYU's comportment could use a lot of work since they're already making a bad reputation for themselves.

[deiscanton]

So, it is the Chicago head coach who got a 1 game suspension to be served next weekend vs North Park.  Very interesting.     Assuming, of course, that this red card is his first of the season.   If that red card is his second, then he has to sit out the next 2 games, and so on.....

When the box score says card given to the team, you really do not know if it is an assistant coach or the head coach that got booked, just from the box score alone....

Of course, sometimes, as a UAA fan not affiliated with NYU, you just want to dare Mancuso to get that second red card so that he gets banned for the next 2 games.....  (If Mancuso gets a red card against either Rochester or Emory, then he cannot play vs Brandeis on Saturday, November 6.....)

In the meantime, NYU, Brandeis, and Carnegie Mellon do not play over the mid-season UAA break, so their next matches are on Matchday #5 on Friday, October 29, 2021. 

[deiscanton]

So, it is fair to say that in terms of sportsmanship in men's soccer, NYU is the Amherst of the UAA?   After all, they both wear violet/purple....

[blue_jays]

So, it is fair to say that in terms of sportsmanship in men's soccer, NYU is the Amherst of the UAA?   After all, they both wear violet/purple....

I can't speak for Amherst since I don't watch the NESCAC much, but NYU gave a bad impression of themselves this weekend.

[PaulNewman]

This has nothing to do with whether Amherst has fairly earned a reputation based on history, but just for the record, I did not observe or get distracted to notice any even questionable behavior from Amherst (or Tufts for that matter)...and I was pretty primed to notice.  Didn't really ever hear Serpone much from directly across the field either.  Highly competitive and certainly hard challenges and fouls, and occasional 3 second chats among players who just had battled for a ball or after a foul, but nothing unsportsmanlike.  Now someone may say I missed some stuff, but if I did it was pretty discrete and thus not much of a big deal.

I know it's the UAA thread, but Amherst was mentioned and they shouldn't take extra hits when not deserved.

[stlawus]

Amherst has fairly earned that reputation in my opinion.   You may not hear it from across the field but next to the bench it is really bad.   I also have the vivid memory of the Amherst players jeering and heckling the Fitchburg State squad before the first round playoff game at SLU in 2014.   Fitchburg St players were simply walking up to the field while the Amherst squad taunted and s*** talked them. There are plenty of other examples and I believe they have rightfully have earned that reputation.

I do not mean to suggest that it detracts from Amherst's quality, as they are clearly a premier program who are well coached and field extremely talented teams every season.    This topic has been debated pretty heavily in the past and I do not intend to flame this anymore than I just have.

[PaulNewman]

Amherst has fairly earned that reputation in my opinion.   You may not hear it from across the field but next to the bench it is really bad.   I also have the vivid memory of the Amherst players jeering and heckling the Fitchburg State squad before the first round playoff game at SLU in 2014.   Fitchburg St players were simply walking up to the field while the Amherst squad stood and jeered them in a pretty pathetic manner.  There are plenty of other examples and I believe they have rightfully have earned that reputation.

Yeah, maybe I worded that too awkwardly.  I wasn't attempting to contest that the reputation has been earned -- I've seen enough evidence and comments since 2012 to believe it's true or mostly true.  I was just sharing what I observed yesterday.  Also should distinguish between bench behavior and on the field behavior.  As I intimated in the other thread I didn't see bullying or cheap shots in the run of play (or anything dirty from either team) but if there was a team getting manhandled (overwhelmed physically) it was Amherst.

And I suppose it's possible Amherst does things to other opponents that they don't dare try now against Tufts.

[stlawus]

You are correct that there is a huge dichotomy between their on field and sideline antics.  On the field they are like every other team.  Nothing too bad, just competitive like anyone else.   Again, they are a true national powerhouse and the results speak for themselves.  That's what's unfortunate about it all because they could have a ton more national and regional respect in terms of a holistic view of their program.

[Centennial1]

To continue the derail, I'll add that I've been at two Amherst matches over the last few years, and their head coach is an absolute maniac. His behavior, as well as the kids on the bench, was deplorable. Low integrity, to say the least. Now back to the regular UAA programming...

[PaulNewman]

LOL...I get the hints.  I never should have touched the livewire for Amherst.

[stlawus]

To continue the derail, I'll add that I've been at two Amherst matches over the last few years, and their head coach is an absolute maniac. His behavior, as well as the kids on the bench, was deplorable. Low integrity, to say the least. Now back to the regular UAA programming...

With regard to regular programming, does UR still paywall their livestreams?

[PaulNewman]

To continue the derail, I'll add that I've been at two Amherst matches over the last few years, and their head coach is an absolute maniac. His behavior, as well as the kids on the bench, was deplorable. Low integrity, to say the least. Now back to the regular UAA programming...

With regard to regular programming, does UR still paywall their livestreams?

Go back to page 6...short answer is yes.

[stlawus]

Totally missed that, my apologies.   But yikes, UR has a multibillion dollar endowment.  I'd like to know where the ROI on athletic streams is allocated because there is 0 chance they make any meaningful revenue off of that.  UR last played SLU in 2014 (which I foolishly paid for) so I'm glad I'm haven't had an opportunity to do that since. 

[Buck O.]

That is a stunning result, while admitting I know less than nothing about Mt St Vincent.  And the box score references the NYU GK on both goals.
Doesn't actually hurt NYU much except with silly poll voters.  And maybe their confidence takes a mild hit, but will not impact RvR or at large chances hardly at all.

That seems to be an indictment of the current procedure for selecting teams.  One game doesn't mean everything, but losing to the team that is currently ranked #263 by Massey should be a significant hit.

NCAA Division III does not allow selection committees to use outside polls or outside computer algorithms as part of the primary or secondary selection criteria. 

That is not what I was suggesting.  I referred to Mt. St. Vincent's standing in the Massey rankings to illustrate the point that Mt. St. Vincent's is not a very good team (despite their glossy record, which has been compiled against weak competition other than the NYU game).  My point remains that losses to worse teams should hurt more than losses to better teams, and to the extent that the current tournament selection procedures lead to the opposite outcome, it demonstrates the need to revise those procedures.

Buck O, you are still referring to an outside ranking (Massey) to compare the teams as to who is better or worse-- , which under NCAA DIII Selection rules set by the DIII Championships Committee, is not allowed for selection purposes, for various reasons.

OK, let me try this again.  I am NOT suggesting that the NCAA should use the Massey rankings.  I'm not.  Really, I'm not.  The fact that I referred to them to illustrate my point does not mean that I'm saying the NCAA should actually use the rankings straight from Massey's website.

What I AM saying is that a selection procedure that penalizes a loss to a good team more than a loss to a mediocre or poor team, and the NCAA's current procedures can do just that.

I think that a better system would recognize that Mt. St. Vincent is not a very good team, and would therefore penalize NYU more for that loss than for a loss to a stronger team.  Such a system would therefore reach the same conclusion as the Massey ratings reach.  But, again, that does NOT mean that it would use the Massey rankings, or any other external ranking system.