D3Boards.Com Soccer Top 20 Fan Poll

[jknezek]

Interesting between the two polls. The two polls shared 23 of 25 teams. Of those 23 teams, only 3 teams were more than 3 spots apart. Conn College was 4 spots higher in the D3soccer Poll, Gettysburg was 5 spots higher in the Fan Poll, and Bowdoin was 10 spots lower in the Fan Poll.

The 4 teams that differed between the 2 polls were the Fan Poll included Middlebury at 21 and Catholic at 24T. The D3soccer Poll had Montclair State at 23 and UW-Eau Claire at 25. Catholic got the second most RV points in the D3soccer Poll, Middlebury got the sixth most RV points. In the Fan Poll, UW-Eau Claire got the third most RV points, Montclair State got the sixth most.

40 teams got points in the Fan Poll, an even 50 got votes in the D3soccer Poll.

So the biggest difference was Bowdoin. Clearly the Fan Poll took their 0-1-1 week, with a HOME tie to Middlebury and a HOME loss to Williams, more seriously than the D3soccer poll. Which is interesting, because the Fan Poll gave more credit to Middlebury and less to Bowdoin. Williams did get 1 point in the Fan Poll and 16 in the D3soccer Poll.

Personally I think Bowdoin at 13, in a week where they went 0-1-1 against currently unranked opponents (all numbers from the D3soccer poll) is overrated. Bowdoin at 23, in a week where they went 0-1-1 against a ranked and RV opponent (D3 Fan Poll), makes more sense. Yes Bowdoin has a ROAD win against Conn College, but Conn at 12 seems more reasonable than Conn at 8 to me also.

I think the D3soccer Poll gave a ton of respect to the NESCAC schools this week in a week where they basically continue to tie and beat each other almost indiscriminately. So we either accept that most of the NESCAC are the top 10 teams in the country, or we look at it and say this isn't the year the NESCAC has those 2 standout teams that run to the Final 4/Championship game. Their history says one thing, time will tell about the second.

[camosfan]

It is easy to see why polling is so volatile, NESCAC  teams have already played 2-3 of their toughest games while most conferences just getting started.

[PaulNewman]

Interesting between the two polls. The two polls shared 23 of 25 teams. Of those 23 teams, only 3 teams were more than 3 spots apart. Conn College was 4 spots higher in the D3soccer Poll, Gettysburg was 5 spots higher in the Fan Poll, and Bowdoin was 10 spots lower in the Fan Poll.

The 4 teams that differed between the 2 polls were the Fan Poll included Middlebury at 21 and Catholic at 24T. The D3soccer Poll had Montclair State at 23 and UW-Eau Claire at 25. Catholic got the second most RV points in the D3soccer Poll, Middlebury got the sixth most RV points. In the Fan Poll, UW-Eau Claire got the third most RV points, Montclair State got the sixth most.

40 teams got points in the Fan Poll, an even 50 got votes in the D3soccer Poll.

So the biggest difference was Bowdoin. Clearly the Fan Poll took their 0-1-1 week, with a HOME tie to Middlebury and a HOME loss to Williams, more seriously than the D3soccer poll. Which is interesting, because the Fan Poll gave more credit to Middlebury and less to Bowdoin. Williams did get 1 point in the Fan Poll and 16 in the D3soccer Poll.

Personally I think Bowdoin at 13, in a week where they went 0-1-1 against currently unranked opponents (all numbers from the D3soccer poll) is overrated. Bowdoin at 23, in a week where they went 0-1-1 against a ranked and RV opponent (D3 Fan Poll), makes more sense. Yes Bowdoin has a ROAD win against Conn College, but Conn at 12 seems more reasonable than Conn at 8 to me also.

I think the D3soccer Poll gave a ton of respect to the NESCAC schools this week in a week where they basically continue to tie and beat each other almost indiscriminately. So we either accept that most of the NESCAC are the top 10 teams in the country, or we look at it and say this isn't the year the NESCAC has those 2 standout teams that run to the Final 4/Championship game. Their history says one thing, time will tell about the second.

Before just seeing the Conn result today I was gonna say I think the top NESCAC teams are basically as good as ever and at least a couple more have jumped up a level.  Tufts may be down a little but they will get better over the season and even if down a little they are still very capable.  I'm not sure all of Tufts' 4 title teams were always their best teams.  Similar thoughts about Amherst.  In short NESCAC having 6-7 teams in the top 20-25 seems accurate to me and I am far from a NESCAC lover.  I've simply adjusted to a better place after so many years of being unhappy about NESCAC success.  In a word, it's basically called resignation.

[PaulNewman]

It is easy to see why polling is so volatile, NESCAC  teams have already played 2-3 of their toughest games while most conferences just getting started.

+k....I don't always understand your posts but imo this one is spot on.  You are on an anamoly I was thinking about earlier today....NESCAC has the LATEST season start but the EARLIEST conference action...like very first weekend out of the game Conn at Tufts and Midd at Amherst.  And in most conferences, even some of the better ones, at least a half to a third of conference games are cupcakes or near-cupcakes for many non-NESCAC top teams.

[Saint of Old]

This is a tough one.
You cannot argue with a conference that boasts 5 champions
Williams/Tufts/Amherst/CC/Middlebury. I think only Tufts has more thann1 but most of these teams are in the hunt year in year out.
They also play different styles within the lge.
Amherst plays different than Williams. Tufts plays different than both. This helps them come Tourney time.
Also the coaching quality is high and finally they have CONFIDENCE.
WHATEVER MAN HAS DONE MAN CAN DO.
When you play for a team that has won a chip you know you can as well. You also don't fear anyone in the country when you play a former Champ every week or so.
Messiah/Wheaton/OhioWeslyan/Oneonta are not playing that
level of quality each week.
There are 2 or maybe 3 great teams in each conference...NESCAC consistently has 5 or 6...this year 7.

[Kuiper]

@Kuiper, thank you for continuing to jump in.  Surprised how quiet it is here right after all these polls published.

Anyway, those votes for Chapman didn't come from me.  The only West region teams in my top 25 were St Thomas and Willamette.  I feel very betrayed (kidding) by Trinity and the the West Coast Big Three of C-M-S, Redlands, and Pac Luth...and now I am forced to learn more about Oxy, Cal Luth, Mary H-B, etc...

St. Thomas has a big test coming up on Friday as they play at Colorado College.  St. Thomas beat Colorado College 2-1 in 2OT last year in Houston, but they've lost the last two times they had to travel to play Colorado College in Colorado Springs.  In Colorado College's 9th game of the season, it will only be their 2nd game at home (they beat Trinity 3-1 in their first home game of the season).

[Gregory Sager]

St. Thomas has a big test coming up on Friday as they play at Colorado College.  St. Thomas beat Colorado College 2-1 in 2OT last year in Houston, but they've lost the last two times they had to travel to play Colorado College in Colorado Springs.  In Colorado College's 9th game of the season, it will only be their 2nd game at home (they beat Trinity 3-1 in their first home game of the season).

We had a GA in the North Park sports info department the past couple of years who had been a Colorado College student-athlete. I wish that I had asked him while he was here if there was a major discrepancy between home winning percentage and road winning percentage in various sports for the Tigers, given what a physiologically serious home-field/home-court advantage they hold over everybody else. No other D3 teams in the country play at anything close to the altitude that the Tigers call home. For instance, the campus of Covenant, which is atop Lookout Mountain on the GA/TN border, is at 2323 feet above sea level; Colorado College is at 6010 feet. The Colorado College gym has a banner-sized sign at one end that states the altitude. The sign is clearly a form of psychological warfare designed to further weaken Tigers opponents whose tongues are hanging out in mid-game or mid-match.

[Kuiper]

St. Thomas has a big test coming up on Friday as they play at Colorado College.  St. Thomas beat Colorado College 2-1 in 2OT last year in Houston, but they've lost the last two times they had to travel to play Colorado College in Colorado Springs.  In Colorado College's 9th game of the season, it will only be their 2nd game at home (they beat Trinity 3-1 in their first home game of the season).

We had a GA in the North Park sports info department the past couple of years who had been a Colorado College student-athlete. I wish that I had asked him while he was here if there was a major discrepancy between home winning percentage and road winning percentage in various sports for the Tigers, given what a physiologically serious home-field/home-court advantage they hold over everybody else. No other D3 teams in the country play at anything close to the altitude that the Tigers call home. For instance, the campus of Covenant, which is atop Lookout Mountain on the GA/TN border, is at 2323 feet above sea level; Colorado College is at 6010 feet. The Colorado College gym has a banner-sized sign at one end that states the altitude. The sign is clearly a form of psychological warfare designed to further weaken Tigers opponents whose tongues are hanging out in mid-game or mid-match.

There's some discussion of it on the Go WEST and NORTH thread, including a reference to it as the Azteca of D3 soccer.  I don't know about other sports, but it appears to be a fortress for them.  They usually only have one 1-2 losses at home and often go undefeated in Colorado Springs.  Of course, it also means that their players are really well conditioned when they play at sea level, although the wear and tear of the travel probably counteracts that advantage in away games.

[Hopkins92]

Altitude is a very fickle thing. Both my kids are in school in Denver, so I've spent a lot of time traveling out there the last 5 years or so. Head out to the mountains to ski when we can. Some trips, I don't even notice it. Some trips, go out on a hike and whooo boy do you feel it.

What blows me away are games at places like La Paz (11k). 5 or 6k, yes, you notice it and need to get used to it. Above 10k?? That's pretty nuts. I once drove up from the base of a mountain (4k or so) up to 11k, and 2 of the people in our car almost passed out.

For further reference, Estadio Azteca sits at 7200.

[jknezek]

I grew up in NJ but my club team flew out to a tournament in Denver when I was about 14. It was embarrassing. Coaches thought it was a great lesson when they weren't wheezing on the sidelines. Altitude sucks if you aren't used to it.

[Gregory Sager]

Altitude sucks if you aren't used to it.

That's the key: acclimation. On my first trip to Colorado (Rocky Mountain National Park, elevation 7,800 ft. at the entrance) I showed the sense of judgment typical of a fifteen-year-old and went on a hike almost immediately after I got there. I remember that I felt pretty woozy within a half-hour of hiking even at a modest pace, so I turned around and (very slowly) returned to the camp. A day later, I went hiking again and was fine.

In the 2016-17 season North Park's women's basketball team flew to Colorado Springs to take part in Colorado College's tournament in late December, and NPU's coach wisely had the team fly out a day early. Unfortunately, their first opponent was Luther, which had also done the smart thing and flown out a day early, and the Norse ended up beating the Vikings by six. But, having now spent a full 48 hours at six thousand feet and having gotten used to playing basketball at that elevation, the next day the Vikings crushed the host Tigers by twenty points.

It's a lot more difficult to acclimate if you're an SCAC team, however, because the various sports teams of Colorado College's conference opponents typically have to play the Tigers in Colorado Springs while school is in session, which likely means that there isn't often the opportunity to fly there a day early to get acclimated.

[maineman]

This is a tough one.
You cannot argue with a conference that boasts 5 champions
Williams/Tufts/Amherst/CC/Middlebury. I think only Tufts has more thann1 but most of these teams are in the hunt year in year out.
They also play different styles within the lge.
Amherst plays different than Williams. Tufts plays different than both. This helps them come Tourney time.
Also the coaching quality is high and finally they have CONFIDENCE.
WHATEVER MAN HAS DONE MAN CAN DO.
When you play for a team that has won a chip you know you can as well. You also don't fear anyone in the country when you play a former Champ every week or so.
Messiah/Wheaton/OhioWeslyan/Oneonta are not playing that
level of quality each week.
There are 2 or maybe 3 great teams in each conference...NESCAC consistently has 5 or 6...this year 7.

That may be true, but this year seems like there is more parity among the top 5-7 teams and if they beat each other up or have 4,5,6 ties in their record, it may be tough to justify/award Pool C berths to 3 or 4 NESCAC teams.  Obviously, one team will get the Pool A, but, in the process all the other teams will gain a loss.

Or will they?  With no OT this year, will league and NCAA tournament games go immediately to a tie after 90 minutes or will there be a extra time for a golden goal?  If they stay as ties and go immediately to shootouts, there would be a higher likelihood that more than one team could complete their league tournament without a loss.

[Flying Weasel]

This is a tough one.
You cannot argue with a conference that boasts 5 champions
Williams/Tufts/Amherst/CC/Middlebury. I think only Tufts has more thann1 but most of these teams are in the hunt year in year out.
They also play different styles within the lge.
Amherst plays different than Williams. Tufts plays different than both. This helps them come Tourney time.
Also the coaching quality is high and finally they have CONFIDENCE.
WHATEVER MAN HAS DONE MAN CAN DO.
When you play for a team that has won a chip you know you can as well. You also don't fear anyone in the country when you play a former Champ every week or so.
Messiah/Wheaton/OhioWeslyan/Oneonta are not playing that
level of quality each week.
There are 2 or maybe 3 great teams in each conference...NESCAC consistently has 5 or 6...this year 7.

That may be true, but this year seems like there is more parity among the top 5-7 teams and if they beat each other up or have 4,5,6 ties in their record, it may be tough to justify/award Pool C berths to 3 or 4 NESCAC teams.  Obviously, one team will get the Pool A, but, in the process all the other teams will gain a loss.

Or will they?  With no OT this year, will league and NCAA tournament games go immediately to a tie after 90 minutes or will there be a extra time for a golden goal?  If they stay as ties and go immediately to shootouts, there would be a higher likelihood that more than one team could complete their league tournament without a loss.

According to the new rules, overtime will be played in conference tournaments and NCAA tournament games, however, no "golden goal"/sudden victory.  The full 20 minutes (two 10 minutes periods) will be played regardless of goals scored.

[jknezek]

TAKE 2 -- CORRECTED in case anyone caught the earlier version that was, very briefly, posted!

D3Boards.com Soccer Fan Poll Games as of 10/2/2022

National Top 25

Rank		School			Points		Weekly Change		Voter Breakdown
1		Chicago (5)			173		0		1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1
2		Messiah (2)			170		0		2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2
3		Kenyon			160		0		3, 3, 4, 3, 3, 3, 3
4		Stevens			152		1		4, 6, 3, 4, 5, 4, 4
5		Johns Hopkins			147		1		6, 4, 5, 6, 4, 5, 5
6		Hamilton			133		2		5, 5, 14, 5, 6, 7, 7
7		North Park			128		-3		8, 8, 10, 7, 9, 6, 6
8		Washington and Lee			119		0		10, 9, 6, 14, 7, 8, 9
T9		Calvin			117		1		9, 7, 7, 9, 8, 10, 15
T9		Wesleyan			117		-2		7, 10, 11, 8, 10, 9, 10
11		Amherst			71		0		11, 16, 17, 15, 12, 14
12		Middlebury			65		9		21, 8, 12, 11, 13
13		Clarkson			64		5		25, 21, 12, 16, 24, 12, 8
14		Oneonta State			58		1		17, 19, 25, 17, 16, 19, 11
15		Gustavus Adolphus			53		-1		12, 20, 15, 18, 12
16		Gettysburg			49		-3		12, 20, 18, 18, 25, 22, 18
17		St. Thomas (TX)			48		0		19, 22, 24, 19, 14, 16, 20
18		Montclair State			45		---		17, 10, 20, 25, 13
19		Willamette			41		---		16, 24, 22, 13, 14
20		UW-Eau Claire			40		---		11, 16, 22, 15
21		Bowdoin			38		2		22, 23, 20, 13, 18, 22
22		Luther			35		---		18, 13, 15, 23
23		Franklin and Marshall			33		---		15, 25, 17, 23, 17
24		Cortland State			32		---		9, 11
25		Williams			29		---		23, 15, 11

Also Receiving Votes:
Lynchburg (28) , Carnegie Mellon (27) , Rochester (21) , Connecticut College (14) , MSOE (12) , Skidmore (10) , Tufts (9) , Catholic (8) , Sewanee (7) , St. Lawrence (7) , Babson (6) , Otterbein (5) , Christopher Newport (3) , Western Connecticut (1)

Newly Ranked: Montclair State, Willamette, UW-Eau Claire, Luther, Franklin and Marshall, Cortland State, Williams
Dropped Out: Connecticut College (Prev:12), Carnegie Mellon (Prev:16), Rochester (Prev:19), Tufts (Prev:20), Drew (Prev:22), Catholic (Prev:24), Christopher Newport (Prev:24)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 25 = 25th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: Gregory Sager, Ejay, SimpleCoach, College Soccer Observer, Paul Newman, jknezek, Mid-Atlantic Fan

[jknezek]

Some thoughts on the Poll this week.

Only 1 vote on the first 7 teams is outside the top 10, that's a 14 for Hamilton.

The first team with only 6 of 7 voters is Amherst at 11.

But the largest vote disparity in the Poll belongs to Middlebury, who has a vote disparity of 8-NR. Middlebury, jumping up 9 spots, made the biggest move this week up.

Conn College dropping from 12 to out had the biggest drop this week.

Gettysburg is the first team where all votes are actually lower than where they ended up in the poll. Highest single vote is 18, total votes puts them at 16.

The last team with 7 of 7 voters is St. Thomas (TX) again at 17. We all agree St. Thomas belongs, we just like where they are at apparently because they didn't move at all from when they had all 7 of us agreeing last week.

Cortland State is the team with the least agreement. They have two votes hovering around 10, but only those 2 votes, leaving them at 24th overall.

The NESCAC has 6 teams in the top 25 and 2 more RV.

14 teams are RV, down one from last week.