D3Boards.Com Soccer Top 20 Fan Poll

[PaulNewman]

If you want to flip-flop them totally fine with me.

[Newenglander]

I'm curious about St Thomas dropping 5 spots...based on a 2-2 draw with a D2 team, where STU had a major stats advantage?

For whatever reason St. Thomas had a lot of really high votes last week. 5,7,4,6. This week they had no votes higher than a 7. So just about every poll either kept them the same or dropped them. They were undefeated, but was that really the strongest slate? Did they deserve the ranking the previous week given who they have played? I just compile the votes, but there isn't much in their schedule that is a wow factor, so as other teams get quality results, it doesn't surprise me that they give way, especially picking up a blemish. St. Edward's may be D2, but they are 0-4-1. We aren't talking about a powerhouse here, as they have lost 3 of those 4 games by 3 goals.

Fair enough I suppose.  I was one who had them high the first time and iirc I am probably the vote for #7 this week...I had been viewing them as neck and neck with JCU.  No doubt influenced by how good they were at the end of last year, Kuiper underscoring them as the top team in Region X, and four wins over maybe not great, but good teams.  Willamette has ended up looking like not as good as it did at the time, but 2 weeks ago that was still considered a pretty good win.

My ballot and yes, I had STU at #7...

1)    Mary Washington
2)    Messiah
3)    Middlebury
4)    Amherst
5)    Chicago
6)    John Carroll
7)    St Thomas (TX)
8)    Bowdoin
9)    Oneonta St
10)    Calvin
11)    Texas Lutheran
12)    Montclair St
13)    Williams
14)    Mt Union
15)    Carleton
16)    North Central
17)    Tufts
18)    Rochester
19)    Cortland St
20)    CWRU
21)    Franklin & Marshall
22)    Stevens
23)    Emory
24)    Lebanon Valley
25)    UW-Platteville

I think my biggest disagreements are F&M at #5, like really?  And JCU all the way up ar #2.  They've both lost since the period covered by the poll so that colors the impression a bit, but even before the blemishes those were too high for me.  Also, and I'm a Conn Coll fan, I'm not sure their ranking is warranted (yet).  And now I'm joking but I think Christopher Newport could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and still land in the top 25.

Its easy for me to question when I'm not putting any names up (just don't see enough soccer outside of the northeast).....but for the sake of banter which I read was welcome Mr. Newman   If you are worried about Conn, Tufts at 17 is an interesting spot as Conn was the better team in their draw by most accounts - I may be questioning Tufts being in the rankings more than the Conn omission. Stevens is also one to question with a 3-1-2 record including a recent tie with 1-4-2 NYU - last year factored in or eye test?

[PaulNewman]

Keep the banter and challenges coming!

Some of you should do your own experiment, even just privately, putting together a top 25 any particular week.  It's hard, very hard...and especially when the challenges are as nuanced as why do you have somebody at #3 and someone else at #4?  I could see if I put Amherst at 12 or 15 or left them unranked...I almost always think you can take the top 5 and order it however you like.  And question for you....I'm supposed to grade the quality of draws?  And if I did that for Conn and Tufts, then I'd have to do that for everybody.  Do you, for instance, know who had the edge in the Loras vs Wisc-Whitewater 3-3 tilt?  Maybe Conn deserves their spot and Tufts does too.  I admit I'm reluctant to go past five for NESCAC but I will go to six.

As for Stevens, I know Stevens is good, like very good.  They lost to F&M opening day 2-1 in a game they led 1-0 until the 77th minute and stats were pretty even.  They beat Babson, and NYU is certainly struggling but that is a team with a lot of talent and were due for a decent result.  But yeah, I could see excluding Stevens.  Honestly, there are a handful of teams that gun to my head I would say are top 25 teams and you can probably guess who most of those are, but their records this far don't support it.  I think we debated this last year....cue up FW who last year flew in and asked why I wasn't just putting in who I really thought were the best 25 teams, aside from records and blemishes...and basically I suggested that I use an informal hybrid model.

Just in case there's any confusion, I'm just a guy who got addicted to this.  I am NOT a D3 soccer expert.  I'm not one who can explain how Coach X adjusted to counter Coach Y with detailed analysis of formation, playing down a partcular flank.  After all these years I can tell when a team is high pressing or parking the bus!  I hope I bring a perspective, more related to professional background and analytic skills, that some find useful or enjoyable.  But bottom line I'm just having fun.

[College Soccer Observer]

My ballot

1. Mary Washington
2. Amherst
3. John Carroll
4. Messiah
5. Carleton
6. Montclair State
7. Middlebury
8. Rochester
9. Chicago
10. Oneonta State
11. Franklin and Marshall
12. Mount Union
13. Williams
14. St. Thomas (TX)
15. Bowdoin
16. Case Western
17. Calvin
18. Gustavus Adolphus
19. Macalester
20. SUNY Cortland
21. North Central College
22. Emory
23. Johns Hopkins
24. Wartburg
25. Trinity (TX)

[SimpleCoach]

If you don't want to wade through the video, here is my list.  I will concur with @PaulNewman.  It's hard, very hard putting these together.  You can make so many arguments for one team or another until you you go nuts.  And then you are wrong.

1. Mary Washington
2. Messiah
3. Williams
4. John Carroll
5. Frank & Marsh
6. SUNY Oneonta
7. Calvin
8. St Thomas TX
9. Amherst
10. Chicago
11. Redlands
12. Case Western
13. CT College
14. TX Lutheran
15. N Central IL
16. Chris Newport
17. Middlebury
18. Tufts
19. Cortland St
20. Rochester NY
21. Carleton MN
22. Montclair St
23. Bowdoin
24. SUNY New Paltz
25. VA Wesleyan

[College Soccer Observer]

My background.  I have had a connection with D3 soccer in some form for 35 years. Played D3 soccer in the latter half of the 1980's (not particularly well).  Officiated college soccer from 1987 thru 2021.  Currently the national rules interpreter for college soccer.  HS varsity coach (boys assistant, girls head coach) since 1998.  Two sons who played high level USYS (multiple state and regional championships, one's team finished 3rd at U19, one's team won the U19 National title.  Younger son currently playing his senior season in college. 

[PaulNewman]

Yep, you get to the last 3-4 spots and say "wait, but I have 12-15 more names to fit in." 

[PaulNewman]

My background.  I have had a connection with D3 soccer in some form for 35 years. Played D3 soccer in the latter half of the 1980's (not particularly well).  Officiated college soccer from 1987 thru 2021.  Currently the national rules interpreter for college soccer.  HS varsity coach (boys assistant, girls head coach) since 1998.  Two sons who played high level USYS (multiple state and regional championships, one's team finished 3rd at U19, one's team won the U19 National title.  Younger son currently playing his senior season in college.

Yes, but were you a highly successful U10 coach?

[College Soccer Observer]

You would have to ask my kids that.  I did coach both of them at that age 

[SimpleCoach]

My background.  I have had a connection with D3 soccer in some form for 35 years. Played D3 soccer in the latter half of the 1980's (not particularly well).  Officiated college soccer from 1987 thru 2021.  Currently the national rules interpreter for college soccer.  HS varsity coach (boys assistant, girls head coach) since 1998.  Two sons who played high level USYS (multiple state and regional championships, one's team finished 3rd at U19, one's team won the U19 National title.  Younger son currently playing his senior season in college.

One question if you are the national rule interpreter....

On a throw in.  How far can a player creep up before it is considered a foul throw.  Silly but I think most college throw ins have this issue.

SC.

[PaulNewman]

You would have to ask my kids that.  I did coach both of them at that age 

Touche!!

At least you didn't have to suffer the indignity of yelling "Offsides, Offsides," and some spectator correcting me "not on throw-ins."  Those were the days.

[College Soccer Observer]

It's a matter of judgment.  In theory, any throw in not taken from the spot where the ball went out is illegal.  In practice, refs normally move a player back if they think they are trying to take an unfair advantage.

[Hopkins92]

That's one of my biggest beefs about soccer at pretty much all levels. Especially if you are supporting a pressing team. Last weekend in Baltimore, Hopkins was really up in the Muhles business and put the ball out of play about 5 yards from the corner flag in the Burg's end. Totally a time to clamp down. The Muhle player picks up the ball easily 10 yards up the line and then runs 10 yards more to throw the ball. That's a HUGE chunk of land and the refs very rarely call that.

I don't really care about 4 or 5 yards in the middle part of the park. But down in either "red zone?" Those are huge advantage being gained/loss in a vital part of the field.

[SierraFD3soccer]

That's one of my biggest beefs about soccer at pretty much all levels. Especially if you are supporting a pressing team. Last weekend in Baltimore, Hopkins was really up in the Muhles business and put the ball out of play about 5 yards from the corner flag in the Burg's end. Totally a time to clamp down. The Muhle player picks up the ball easily 10 yards up the line and then runs 10 yards more to throw the ball. That's a HUGE chunk of land and the refs very rarely call that.

I don't really care about 4 or 5 yards in the middle part of the park. But down in either "red zone?" Those are huge advantage being gained/loss in a vital part of the field.

Absolutely agree that ARs and centers should put a clamp on this. They don't allow free kicks from anywhere on the field and this is no like scratching in pool. Sometimes it can be hard when the AR is on the other side of the field, but not the case for this game. 

Not hard at all to get right.

Gettysburg did the same which lead to goal in a 1-1 game last year.

[PaulNewman]

The throw-in cheating/latitude drives me crazy as well.  In part I just think there's too much going on for one referee to stay on top of everything.  Not quite as often, but happens for free kicks too.