2021 NCAA Tournament

[stlawus]

There's pretty much an endless amount of stories about the antics from Amherst, but there's one particular incident that sticks out in my mind from a personal viewpoint.  SLU hosted a first round pod in 2014, and the 2nd match of the first round featured Amherst vs. Fitchburg State.  I was at those games and stuck around after the SLU game to watch those teams play.   It's one thing to behave poorly during the game, as emotions run high in the run of play (which is still not an excuse) but what I saw before that game was simply atrocious.   Amherst had just taken the field for warmups and then the Fitchburg players came onto the pitch from the opposite side of Sandy MacAllaster, which meant they had to walk through the Amherst side of the field.  As the Fitchburg players made their way across the field the entire Amherst squad proceeded to jeer, heckle, taunt and ridicule the Fitchburg players.  It was basically a gauntlet of extremely poor sportsmanship.  The Fitchburg players admirably did not take the bait and ignored them.  I felt really bad for them.   

The success of Amherst is undeniable and Serpone clearly is one of the best coaches in the country.  But what I saw that day showed me a program that does not have a culture of magnanimity or good sportsmanship, and that comes from the top.   I'm just one person with one viewpoint that might be a minority opinion, and I do not claim to speak for anyone but myself.  But the reputation of Amherst is most definitely not without merit.

[blooter442]

In the eyes of Amherst defenders, the Mammoths' reputation has come as a consequence of jealousy stemming from its success: a national title in 2015, half the NESCAC titles between 2010 and 2020, Sweet 16 streak, etc. It is worth noting that Amherst probably gets a disproportionate amount of criticism vs. other programs who have also been "less than perfect" in terms of behavior — the behavior from that UMASS Boston side against Haverford in 2016 was the single biggest disgrace I've ever seen in a D3 environment. It is probably true that Amherst's direct style of play rubs some (other than just myself) the wrong way. Personally I find them tough to watch, but they seem to have become a bit more possession-based this year — either way, I think it is inaccurate to correlate "direct" with "defensive" or "parking the bus" as there are a lot of attacking sides in the professional game that are pretty direct. (In fact, my favorite pro team shares a lot of similarities with Shapiro's Tufts in terms of employing a high press, having a combination of skillful players and steel, being able to play through the midfield or go long, and having a variety of ways to win games.)

Still, in terms of ill will, Tufts — a program with four national titles — doesn't seem to attract nearly as much (even if PN among others enjoy watching them get knocked down a peg), so there doesn't seem to be a linear correlation between national success and distaste for a given program. Now, to be fair, Tufts is not a team of angels: the example of the handball/goading in the 2019 title game stands out, and IIRC Braun should have been sent off for an elbow in that game. My point is that there are a number of successful programs out there that (rightly or wrongly) haven't anywhere near the reputation that Amherst does, and while some of that may be unfair, there are likely reasons for it — mainly, that the sample size of incidents would appear to be larger.

I haven't been privy to anything like the anecdotes provided, but for me it sometimes sounds like the bench yells just for the sake of yelling (IIRC I commented on that when observing them at Bowdoin tis year). Of course coaches/benches/etc. are animated at various points throughout a given game, and rightly so, but it just seems a bit over the top.

[PaulNewman]

You left out the PLK incident several years ago Tufts vs Bowdoin.

And, lol, if hoping Tufts (and Messiah) don't win the national title every single year makes me a hater...guilty as charged !

Of course it's entirely possible I have some deeply latent dysphoria about those programs knocking out another hapless program a couple or three times.

RE: Amherst again...an unfortunate irony (and irony may not be the correct word) is that Amherst may have one of if not the most skilled, talented offensive player over at least the past several years

[blooter442]

You left out the PLK incident several years ago Tufts vs Bowdoin.

Ah, yes, who could forget (evidently me).

And, lol, if hoping Tufts (and Messiah) don't win the national title every single year makes me a hater...guilty as charged !

Of course it's entirely possible I have some deeply latent dysphoria about those programs knocking out another hapless program a couple or three times.

To be clear, there's nothing wrong with (metaphorically speaking) wanting the cool kids to get their head dunked in the toilet!

[Novacat]

In the eyes of Amherst defenders, the Mammoths' reputation has come as a consequence of jealousy stemming from its success: a national title in 2015, half the NESCAC titles between 2010 and 2020, Sweet 16 streak, etc. It is worth noting that Amherst probably gets a disproportionate amount of criticism vs. other programs who have also been "less than perfect" in terms of behavior — the behavior from that UMASS Boston side against Haverford in 2016 was the single biggest disgrace I've ever seen in a D3 environment. It is probably true that Amherst's direct style of play rubs some (other than just myself) the wrong way. Personally I find them tough to watch, but they seem to have become a bit more possession-based this year — either way, I think it is inaccurate to correlate "direct" with "defensive" or "parking the bus" as there are a lot of attacking sides in the professional game that are pretty direct. (In fact, my favorite pro team shares a lot of similarities with Shapiro's Tufts in terms of employing a high press, having a combination of skillful players and steel, being able to play through the midfield or go long, and having a variety of ways to win games.)

Still, in terms of ill will, Tufts — a program with four national titles — doesn't seem to attract nearly as much (even if PN among others enjoy watching them get knocked down a peg), so there doesn't seem to be a linear correlation between national success and distaste for a given program. Now, to be fair, Tufts is not a team of angels: the example of the handball/goading in the 2019 title game stands out, and IIRC Braun should have been sent off for an elbow in that game. My point is that there are a number of successful programs out there that (rightly or wrongly) haven't anywhere near the reputation that Amherst does, and while some of that may be unfair, there are likely reasons for it — mainly, that the sample size of incidents would appear to be larger.

I haven't been privy to anything like the anecdotes provided, but for me it sometimes sounds like the bench yells just for the sake of yelling (IIRC I commented on that when observing them at Bowdoin tis year). Of course coaches/benches/etc. are animated at various points throughout a given game, and rightly so, but it just seems a bit over the top.

I do not know if you saw my posts from a couple pages ago....I do not think that the criticism of Amherst comes just from jealousy of success, the data does not lie,  they have been in the top 2 in both fouls per game and yellow cards per game every year for at least 8 straight years.  That can only come from a direct strategy as opposed to bad luck, bad officiating, or a particularly rough set of players. 

The irony of their style is that they have probably the best set of skilled player up front of any NESCAC team.  #9 Giamatti is an amazing talent.  Why not play on a large turf field where you can better possess the ball and get him the ball in isolated instances? No, they would rather play on a small grass field where they can flip throw it in the box 20 times a game, where BTW they are not really that dangerous on set pieces compared to others like Middlebury, Tufts Bowdoin, Williams etc.

I personally think - longer term - this style will be overwhelmed by a more skill-based, possession oriented game plan. More and more players are being developed in that mode and they are finding their way to D3. See Conn College. Their possession and play in the final 3rd is quite impressive.  I may have to eat crow in the short term if Giamatti does his thing this weekend.

[SimpleCoach]

Can't say I know the history of Amherst, but can only comment on the three games I watched.

First, I find benches that hoot and holler over slide tackles very off putting.  It's ok to say something like "good tackle!" but to cheer as if it's is fuel to fire.  They go in tough, they get cheered, they go in tougher, they get cheered more ... and again, I don't mind tough play but I find this to be too much.

Second, the last game against Middlebury, the coach was obnoxious with fouls and calls.  As was his bench.  They cheer for tough tackles, and then scream for a red card when the other team does the same.  And the head coach stomps around like a petulant 2nd grader.  Again, this is my impression from watching on video, so I could be wrong, but until someone tells me differently, I see what I see.

Third, against Middlebury, to say that Amherst players, especially the goalkeeper were not rubbing it in the faces of the Middlebury players, would be an understatement.  I think that's what they do during the game, and clearly after, they provoke.  If I were a senior and the goalkeeper did that to me, I would punch him.  I take the red....

Fourth, if you watch how they tackle, especially from behind, they go in hard and reach in for the ball and bump the player.  Every time.  To me, this is coached.  More times than not, it looks like a foul to me, but I think refs after a while start to accept "it's part of the game" and shy away from using the whistle.

So, are they physical, yes.  Are they dirty, I would say they walk on a razor's edge.  Are they classless, indeed. 

At least so says I.

[Gregory Sager]

Perhaps the Mammoths don't read this board -- perhaps they aren't even aware of its existence at all -- but if they do read it, I would imagine that they're eating up the last five pages with a spoon. Not just because it's confirmation that they're living rent-free in the heads of the opposition (taking the angle that if opposing fans think this of them, opposing players must think it as well), but because it feeds what I call the "positive paranoia" that is a distinctive feature of much of American team sports nowadays, especially among fanbases of teams that draw negative press or strong hostility from rival fans. I see lots of "Cleveland against the world", "Packers against the world", etc., t-shirts nowadays, so the adoption of a fortress mentality as a rallying focus in the sports world, whether legit or not, is a whole vibe.

It wouldn't surprise me if Amherst has the attitude that if it wins two games in Greensboro this weekend the Mammoths won't simply be sticking it to two teams, they'll be sticking it to 412 of them.

[camosfan]

the 412 team part!  I am a fan of Tufts, I don't detect any anger towards Amherst among fans, we consider them worthy rivals.

[Hopkins92]

I do think there's more than a little something about creating a consistently "uncomfortable" environment that is at play here. I didn't encounter this in college, but there was a particular squad out of Reston on the DMV club scene that was all about intimidating the opponent, and it started long before the whistle blew.

You just knew you had 90 minutes of pain coming and it was very difficult for teams to get past it. Didn't help that their parents/supporters relished the role, too.

[PaulNewman]

the 412 team part!  I am a fan of Tufts, I don't detect any anger towards Amherst among fans, we consider them worthy rivals.

If you are a Tufts fans and don't know any Tufts alums/players/fans that dislike Amherst then you haven't met a lot of Tufts folks.  Worthy rivals, no question.  Anger, no question.

There could be some recency bias used to build up some bulletin board material but this has been going on for 10 years. 

[jknezek]

I doubt there is one coach in those 4 who is not finding some way to make it them against the world to some degree. But honestly, it's the final four. Either you are going to play well or you are going to cave to the pressure.

I've been on teams that have done both, I've coached teams that have done both, and even as an adult, I've had martial arts tournaments where I've done both. And I'll be darned if I can figure out why it happens sometimes and other times it doesn't. But I've never really found bulletin board material mattered much beyond the first whistle and then after when you have to think a few words. When you are out there on the field, there isn't much time to think about those things.

[blue_jays]

But I've never really found bulletin board material mattered much beyond the first whistle ... When you are out there on the field, there isn't much time to think about those things.

Totally agree. Bulletin board ends once you step on the pitch. If you don't have fire in your belly just by the fact that you're in the Final Four, then there's something wrong.

I'd say the Amherst lack of class topic is just about exhausted. They're evidently perfectly fine with their earned reputation over the years. Not a legacy I'd want to have attached to me, but hey, to each their own.

Here's hoping for good weather and quality games this weekend.

[Mr.Right]

D1 comment, so my apologies, but this group is about the only one I know who might find this soccer coaching tidbit intriguing

Looking at the 8 teams in the quarterfinals -- Oregon State, Clemson, Pitt, ND, Georgetown, West Virginia, St Louis, and Washington -- 4 have coaches who worked under Bobby Clark at Notre Dame. BJ Craig at Oregon State, Chad Riley at ND, Brian Wiese at Georgetown, and Jamie Clark (Bobby's son) at Washington. Clark's legacy at ND is impressive on its own, but it's fun to see his former assistants achieving great success with their programs as well.

Oh ya Bobby Clark's tentacles are all over College Soccer for the good and the bad IMO. Most impressive to me on your list is the University of Pittsburgh. That program was on the brink of disaster with its longtime HC Joe Luxbacher. Jay Vidovich former HC at Wake Forest and Jay Martin OWU alum has really turned the ship around.

[Mr.Right]

Greensboro NC Weather:

Friday       Sunny 70°
Saturday   Sunny 70°

[Christan Shirk]

Throwback Thursday . . .

D3soccer.com
A look back: 1981 Men's Soccer Final Four
40 years ago, the Final Four was played at Elizabethtown College between Brandeis, Glassboro St., Scranton, and Ohio Wesleyan.  Find out who won complete with match reports, season recaps, an overview of the entire tournament, and a look at what was going on around the world and in pop culture in 1981.
https://d3soccer.com/ncaatournament/1981/Mens-FinalFour-History-1981

Ten years ago at D3soccer.com the idea was to do retrospectives of the Final Fours (and tournament and seasons) from 10, 20, and 30 years ago as (a) content to fill the 2-week gap between the Sectionals and the Final Four and (b) to create a centralized recorded history of Division III men's soccer.  It was fun putting a few of them together, but it required a lot of time and effort and I only completed two (1980 & 1990) the first year and one (1981) the next. Anyway, the 1981 retrospective, that was a 30-year look back when produced, is now 40 years ago.  I invite you to check it out (and the other two from 1980 and 1990).