2021 NCAA Tournament

[PaulNewman]

Here is a great win-win for everyone the first weekend NESCACs are permitted to play...

Tufts goes to Chicago for North Park and Chicago..

I'd circle the date twice on my calendar, in red pen, if I had the chance to call a Tufts @ North Park game.

And I'm 100% certain that NPU head coach Kris Grahn would juggle his schedule as much as necessary to make it happen, on whichever date Tufts chose.

I'm sure we could get ALL of those non-NESCAC teams to sign a contract tonight.  And just imagine the NESCAC bragging rights after going 22-0 for the weekend.

If UMass-Boston, a regional public state school, could get to the West Coast and Whitworth to Pennsylvania there is zero reason Tufts can't get to Chicago...and all the others as well.

[Novacat]

My point, which I tried to use actual data to back it up.....is that if you are a school like W&L in a weaker conference (that yes, produced cupcakes) than others (I did not say NESCAC) I think you need to go out of your way to schedule tougher competition out of conference (which looks like they tried but maybe failed) so you can get more battle tested.  Its an age-old strategy for basketball powerhouses like Gonzaga ( and Temple back in the 90s)who play in less competitive conferences.

In fact I actually said W&L's results speak for themselves. and in a prior thread I said how much I respected Conn's playing style and wished them well.

This is a message board where the only reason people join is to express opinions and share/learn information.  I shared both an opinion and some information... And get called out for enjoying my "superiority"...Really?

You obviously can say whatever you want. But how did they "maybe fail"?  Why are you saying that?  Because they lost in OT in a national semi?

And neither one of you countered the very specific info presented to you about their non-conference schedule or how many more NCAA tourney teams you think they should have played.  And if they weren't battle tested how did they beat CNU and Messiah???  Or lose to Conn in OT.  You guys act like they got to the Final Four (which usually counts as a huge success) and lost to Conn 5-0.

If you read closely what I said,  I said maybe they tried to schedule a tough out of conference schedule but maybe failed...they out scored their opponents 17-2 in non conference....Please do not try to manipulate my words into implying that i said W&L failed by not winning a National championship. That is clearly not what I said.

[jknezek]

My point, which I tried to use actual data to back it up.....is that if you are a school like W&L in a weaker conference (that yes, produced cupcakes) than others (I did not say NESCAC) I think you need to go out of your way to schedule tougher competition out of conference (which looks like they tried but maybe failed) so you can get more battle tested.  Its an age-old strategy for basketball powerhouses like Gonzaga ( and Temple back in the 90s)who play in less competitive conferences.

In fact I actually said W&L's results speak for themselves. and in a prior thread I said how much I respected Conn's playing style and wished them well.

This is a message board where the only reason people join is to express opinions and share/learn information.  I shared both an opinion and some information... And get called out for enjoying my "superiority"...Really?

You obviously can say whatever you want. But how did they "maybe fail"?  Why are you saying that?  Because they lost in OT in a national semi?

And neither one of you countered the very specific info presented to you about their non-conference schedule or how many more NCAA tourney teams you think they should have played.  And if they weren't battle tested how did they beat CNU and Messiah???  Or lose to Conn in OT.  You guys act like they got to the Final Four (which usually counts as a huge success) and lost to Conn 5-0.

If you read closely what I said,  I said maybe they tried to schedule a tough out of conference schedule but maybe failed...they out scored their opponents 17-2 in non conference....Please do not try to manipulate my words into implying that i said W&L failed by not winning a National championship. That is clearly not what I said.

But you are fixated on the score instead of looking at the quality of the opponents they beat by that score. The score doesn't necessarily mean their opposition was weak, it could mean the Generals were good. We keep providing evidence that the opposition WAS good, the rankings, tournament success, and conference finishes of those teams.

You seem to struggle to accept the evidence and just keep saying that despite the quality of these teams, the Generals might have failed to put together a quality OOC schedule. All legitimate evidence after a long season indicates they did.

[PaulNewman]

Novacat, you actually didn't make clear what you meant, but it didn't matter.  Just on the schedule itself why why you say maybe failed?  You never answered how many NCAA teams would be enough.  They had way more than most and even fighting against the negative impact of some horrible records of teams in their conference ended up with a high SOS.  You threw stuff out that you couldn't back up even loosely.  And the other guy was even worse.

And you and the other guy STILL have failed to explain why this is a thing for you or how in the world you could make any conclusion about battle tested.  You said you're not talking about their actual tournament performance or losing in the semis in OT, so why would "battle tested" even be an issue?  Towards what end?

And please tell us if one of these or both are burner accounts.

[PaulNewman]

Mr. Right....from 12-27-19....just fascinating and prescient...




Conn Ramblings:


One story to go under the radar this season was Conn College. Kenny Murphy retired and handed over the reins to Reuben Burk. Burk, 27,  had only been at Conn for 1 year as an assistant and had bounced around like most young assistants do from school to school learning different styles and methods from as many Head Coaches as they can. These Assistants are trying to soak it up or at least that was what used to happen. Burk, who should forever live by the motto "life is about being in the right place at the right time" must have proven to Murphy and Conn his worth and that he knew what he was doing. You rarely see a Head Coach leave such a promising outfit, like Conn, with the potential to contend like Murphy did but here we are today. I was skeptical of the whole situation at first until I saw Conn play to open the season. Burk and his staff decided to turn Conn into a more possession oriented attacking team BUT you could tell he did not want Conn to lose its lock down defensive mindset in the process. I would say he succeeded expeditiously because overnight Conn was a much more entertaining team to watch and were still getting the results the team was used to.  To make a deep NCAA run while in the process of overhauling your team's identity is no easy task. An entertaining style IMO is important in attracting and keeping students and local community at your Home games. More fans with more passion = players getting more pumped to produce for the crowd. A group of alums starting to show up at random Saturday afternoon Home games = only way for current players to thank alums for the support is to play hard and win. Conn attendance at Home this year improved steadily throughout the year and no question the winning was a big part of it but a small part of me hopes the style also had a hand in that as well.

Conn has now proven they can make a deep NCAA run. The next hurdle is the NCAA Final 4 / Tufts and frankly Conn has a ton of work to do to get there. Let me take an outsiders go at Conn. By the end of the year Conn looked to be in a 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 depending upon how you look at it but tactically there was no difference. Marcucci in net..LB Aquadro, CB Donelan, CB Stoneback, RB Stokes. Holding was Bocchetti with Butera and Djerdjaj in midfield. Noonan and Yeonas out wide with Tshuma up top. That is a pretty solid starting 11.  Djerdjaj and Yeonas are studs. Noonan is a quick winger with skill who can finish, same goes for Thsuma. Conn is loaded in attack and are a really good countering team. The bench was ok but a bit thin. Ludwick played out wide and is a solid player that is a threat to score. Balbontin graduates with 9 career goals and 62 games played with 4 starts. To have 62 GP and 4 GS tells me Balbontin understood his role and did his job for the team. He was a good target and could hold the ball up top. Miranda comes off the bench or starts for Bocchetti sitting in front of the back 4. He is a good athlete that does his job. Conn also used a couple Frosh (Pinyochon, Robles,) that I have not seen enough of to get a read yet.   Marvel is a Frosh I have seen at Tabor Academy and is a skilled player but Conn needs more help from its bench in 2020 if they are going to contend.  Another issue is this team has a few to many players from Marion(MA),Malibu(CA), Riverside(CT), McLean(VA), Winnetka(IL) to name a few. More kids from the athletic rich St.Mary's Prep, like Stoneback, would be nice but this has always been an issue with Conn admissions. They need as many kids as they can get that can pay full pop. Still, bench production and roster manipulation are minor concerns in the big picture that can be fixed over time.

I think the one position that needs to be shored up is holding midfielder. Bocchetti and Miranda are both good athletic players with skill that need to be on the field but just not in this position. WAY to many teams(Tufts, Swathmore come to mind) absolutely sliced and diced thru the middle of Conn's defensive 3rd at will and were getting some decent looks. Conn's CB's need more help then what the holding midfielders are giving them defensively. Opposing teams and especially opposing players HAVE TO THINK TWICE about attacking thru the middle of the field and wide guys(think Lane and Tasker) need to think twice about cutting inside on Conn. Conn needs like a 90 minute Zach Trevorrow with those crazed Hawaiian game day eyes at holding midfielder. POINT--This position requires a nutter with a genuine desire to be competitive when your team is being challenged. Someone needs to step up here, tackle hard and hunt the ball. Maybe Miranda or Bocchetti can change their game a bit?

Captains this season were JR CB Donelan and SR RB Stokes. Interestingly, Conn loses 4 key Seniors but 2 of them have eligibility(Stokes and Aquadro). Butera is a big loss in midfield and would have to be in my Top 5 Set Piece takers in Nescac if I am looking for a goal from about 25-30 yards. He scored 2 against Catholic and Midd that I witnessed  Actually, since I mentioned Trevorrow(Tufts) he would be in my Top 5 set piece takers as well in Nescac. So Donelan will be Captain as a SR but does Marcucci join him? Personally, this is most definitely Augie Djerdjaj's team now if anyone had any doubts anyways so I would make him a Captain as a JR along with Donelan and Marcucci. Djerdjaj is an old school player who has all the attributes of a top Soccer player and is an absolute danger man in attack. He hits some of the sweetest thru balls in Nescac and can finish as he had 9 Goals. He needs to take this team over and has the perfect Nescac villain futbol name and talent to put daggers in Amherst, Tufts and the rest. More importantly, Djerdjaj does not mind throwing his body around. In the match at Tufts in the regular season, Conn and Djerdjaj dominated long stretches of the ball and play but just were not clinical in the final 3rd. Still, the one player I saw give Aroh(Tufts) a game was Djerdjaj. At the very least he kept Aroh a little more busy than usual and freed up more space on the field for his teammates. Strangely, Aroh's body language is sometimes quite humorous as he almost looks annoyed to have to clean up his teammates mistakes, as if the big King cannot be bothered and he points to his little minions(Van Brewer, Enge) to do all the gritty grunt work.

More Notes:

-Conn MUST commit to absolute fitness in the offseason. I see a couple players that would benefit from being in top fitness and could be better overall players.

-Even with all the possession, Conn managed to have less SOG than they did in 2018 and in more games. Is it concerning? not really but something to be aware of and more importantly...why?

-Tshuma, Noonan, Yeonas and Djerdjaj are a real solid and dangerous attacking 4 that combine well with each other especially Djerdjaj and Thsuma.

-Stoneback and Donelan are two solid starting CB's but who will be playing wingback next season?

We do have to take a quick look at what happened in the Elite 8 because Head Coach Burk adjusted his whole lineup for the Tufts match. He sacked the LB Aquadro and put the speedy winger Yeonas at LB.  He then moved Djerdjaj up top with Thsuma and Noonan wide. Butera took Djerdjaj's spot and then both Bocchetti and Miranda were in midfield. That is a TON of moving parts and possibly made the game more uncomfortable than necessary for Conn.  Burk must not have liked the Aquadro v Lane(Tufts) matchup and while I agree I also do not see moving one of your best attacking players to wingback just for his speed. The better option would have been to just have Stokes and Aquadro take 2-3 steps back when defending quick wingers like Tasker and Lane and do the best they can.  Conn's starting lineup had been in a consistent stable place and to shake it up just for supposed matchup problems can/will have consequences sometimes. Kind of like Lane absolutely catching Yeonas napping two minutes into the game by scoring a beauty before Yeonas knew what had happened. That had to be a massive punch to the gut for the Head Coach but he's young and will learn and about 20 minutes in he got his original lineup on the field. IMO Conn outplayed Tufts 18 to 18 but Tufts was clinical finishing and defending and outplayed Conn where it matters. Conn's attacking third left a ton to be desired.

[Another Mom]

Chiming in to add that the trip for W&L to Hanover (and Centre that weekend) was a second 7+ hour trip (461 miles). I do think we can't fault W&L for making an effort to find good games.

[Mr.Right]

Is the parade in New London today?

Gotta say I remain stunned at the deafening silence about Conn Coll winning the title as regards a large majority of frequent posters/visitors.

Here is the link to New London's local newspaper and writer Gavin Keefe who did a great job covering this team's run. Again the final article he wrote when they returned to school was the best one. Good quotes from the players and HC.

https://www.theday.com/


New England Soccer Journal will cover it and I would guess someone like Bocchetti will get the cover in an upcoming issue like Tufts Drew Stern did in 2019. Would not be surprised to see future COY Burk on a cover in February.


https://www.nesoccerjournal.com/

[Mr.Right]

Chiming in to add that the trip for W&L to Hanover (and Centre that weekend) was a second 7+ hour trip (461 miles). I do think we can't fault W&L for making an effort to find good games.

I think Novacat and Camos were just promoting their conference and I think that is great. Novacat probably did not need to slash W&L in the process but he was trying to make his point. They have not been on here for years and years like some of us and know nothing of prior histories and arguments and even crazed behavior(one of which would be me and frankly I was not the most sober person back then). Not sure how you fix that or how to introduce prior sore spots or what not. Probably best to make one point and move on, but to each his own. That is the best thing about coming on here is there are no rules and roles we just all jump into whatever we feel like doing. Productive chaos.

[d4_Pace]

When I was coaching at Tufts we looked into the potential of hosting a "Battle of Boston" where two top teams would fly out to play us and Brandeis but it just doesn't work with the shortened NESCAC schedule. Without that first week of the season its almost impossible logistically to fit in an extra doubleheader. So until the NESCAC administration drops their holier than thou mindset we won't see Amherst/Tufts/Conn/Midd playing any of the top national powers out of conference.

[PaulNewman]

When I was coaching at Tufts we looked into the potential of hosting a "Battle of Boston" where two top teams would fly out to play us and Brandeis but it just doesn't work with the shortened NESCAC schedule. Without that first week of the season its almost impossible logistically to fit in an extra doubleheader. So until the NESCAC administration drops their holier than thou mindset we won't see Amherst/Tufts/Conn/Midd playing any of the top national powers out of conference.

First, following up on Mr.Right above I have zero interest in making things more difficult for Novacat, Camos, or anyone really.  I think I've done more poking and prodding and pushing for ways to increase participation than anyone (with the exception of SimpleCoach actually introducing some fresh ideas).  Just before this latest bit I endorsed that Novacat had come up with an interesting tidbit with no NESCAC losing to anyone in the tournament out of conference. I agreed that that was a very impressive finding.  We've reached pretty quick agreement on a couple of other things in the past few weeks as well.  And then the W&L thing seemed to get raised directly out of Novacat's observation via Camos and then endorsed by Novacat where W&L hadn't even been mentioned.  I think it was fair to ask what the point was, and if the point wasn't about having to do with W&L's performance and end-result, then it seems even more fair to question what it was all about.  I love that Mr.Right is the reasonable peacemaker here (not sarcastic)...there is a lot of history and we've come a long way as he alluded to.  Probably more than a third or maybe half of my and his negative karma points came from each other (and I'd guess I got a couple or six from him this Fall which is absolutely fine if so) and now I'm regularly commending his contributions and re-posting a fascinating post he did in late December, 2019 in the middle of the night lol.  Anyway, just pointing out ridiculous, childish beefing between a guy I'm guessing is in his early 40s and a guy now 62 can morph into something more productive where he's appreciated and I'm at least (barely?) tolerated.  Earlier this season he seemed to think I was hoping for another Covid shutdown so I could revel in some kind of "told you so" prediction narcissistic glory, with the suggestion I did that in 2020.  Not true in either instance.  I followed along like everyone else and I didn't feel unique with my impressions of what seemed so clear as we went through it, and I was very disappointed myself for a lot of reasons including that 2020 was another great opportunity for my team to succeed.  All that said, do I need to do a better job of letting go and dropping little entanglements that clearly appear to be going nowhere except for fueling increased ill will?  Absolutely. 110%.  But what is the fun in that lol?

Now, in response to D4 above and partly apropos of the W&L discussion, I was expecting this standard NESCAC explanation and that's partly why I posted NESCACs not only playing those other teams, but also traveling to do so. I know it's true, but I also don't fully buy it.  I'm going to post something below that I posted during the Covid year that touches on the topic.  But first, the irony to me is that criticism directed at W&L was even more interesting to me in part because W&L is a full-fledged academic peer of not just the NESCACs overall, but the top half of the NESCAC, and so the ease with which it could be suggested that W&L should do even more when they already had a very competitive SOS and after TWO 7+ hour trips when NESCACs can't/won't do even one just grates in an unpleasant way (and I am by no means a W&L homer and have no personal stake in it).  Anyway, on to what I wrote in July, 2020 suggesting that some divergences of what individual NESCACs do might be good in the long run for individual members as well as the conference writ large.


7-7-20 (this thread and on the topic of Covid restrictions for Fall, 2020)
I find the NESCAC situation fascinating from a sociological point of view.  I actually would argue that a split scenario -- at least several NESCACs do play while some don't -- would be good for the conference and all the schools in it.  On the one hand, the NESCAC has tremendous brand identity that benefits all of the members, no doubt some more than others...and certainly one can argue that the relatively strict agreements that the schools share in terms of season start dates, number of games, recruiting and "tips," etc have contributed to the strength of the brand.

By way of comparison with the NESCAC's "big brother" or "big sister," the Ivy League, the brand benefits and shared agreements on how athletics function have been critical in shaping and building the traditions of both leagues.  Now, I suppose this could happen, but I personally can't imagine an Ivy breaking from the rest and doing something on their own, except maybe in sports where not all members participate.  I'm not sure NESCAC is as iconic as the Ivy, but certainly there are a lot of similarities, including what I assume is an intended prestige factor attendant to the leagues and their members, which, even if not intentional, serves to distinguish the leagues from other leagues.

So given some obvious and massive benefits of these tradition-rich leagues, how might one argue that they might benefit from making more individual, and perhaps more dynamic, decisions?  I personally for some time have had some ambivalence about the insularity/exclusivity of the NESCAC.  It's part of what some fans love about it, and what some fans of other schools grate against.  I think some of the schools, mostly those that many would characterize as in the lower half or lower third of the NESCAC reputation-wise, are known more for being a "NESCAC school" than their own individual identity.  I don't want to get too tangential, but one might argue that a few schools have ridden the coattails of Williams, Amherst, Midd, Bowdoin, Wesleyan.....Tufts often has been considered in its own category (as more of a UAA-like school).  I don't know enough about Hamilton (I think very similar to Colby) to comment, but then there is a school like Colby pushing hard to push into the top tier and its best chance to do just that might by trying to separate itself identity-wise while also aggressively pursuing rankings-type criteria (USNWR).

To get back of topic, Colby might be just the kind of school that would benefit from doing something different relative to its peers.  I haven't checked recently, but while Bates certainly is a peer to Colby and Bowdoin, Bates hasn't had the kind of endowment of other NESCACs, and so perhaps Bates, Conn, and Trinity are under more financial pressure than others (and therefore perhaps more reluctant to opt out of Fall athletics).  That's all conjecture.  Again, I have no inside info on any of this.

At any rate, in terms of the potential upside to the whole group of the group not operating in lockstep (and aside from the financial arguments), I could see really savvy administrators looking towards the future and thinking about how to preserve much of the prestige while also promoting increased diversity and individuality....for the express purpose of impacting the insularity issue.  I may be falling prey to huge recency bias, but we are in a time of questioning a lot of iconic symbolism.  I think there definitely is a case that can be made for the insularity/exclusivity becoming a more tangible negative.  I wish I could remember the noted educational expert who a few months ago as the potential long-term of Covid was being considered spoke very strongly about Ivy, Ivy-like and NESCAC, NESCAC-type schools, post-Covid, becoming even more like "finishing schools" for the elite and super-elite classes in America more so than they already are.  The guy actually used the words "finishing schools," which being from the South, used to be a descriptor for women's colleges like Sweet Briar, Mary Baldwin, and Randolph-Macon Woman's College (now Randolph since going co-ed)...all in Virginia.

I rambled more than I wanted, but the bottom line is I could see some NESCAC schools breaking from the pack as a very good thing (and there may be a multitude of ways to do this beyond athletics as well).  And all that said, I'll still be surprised if some NESCACs do break off in the end, and I'd be shocked to see it in the Ivy League.

Related to the above, at the time we were discussing this stuff in Summer, 2020, Colby definitely and maybe Midd and one or two others WERE considering doing something different than their brethren.  It would just take one...like Colby going to California to play C-M-S and Redlands that very first NESCAC weekend...and that might lead to some real change.  Some NESCACs I think would definitely benefit in terms of building brands from aggressive differentiators more so than reliance on, for lack of a better word, more monolithic associations with their peers.

[blooter442]

It is interesting to note a rather muted response from the NESCAC crowd (yes, I know there have been a few congratulation shouts, but not a lot by any means). Conn. certainly deserves kudos for its feat alone but also the fact that aside from an Elite 8 last time around they weren't exactly among peoples' favorites: Tufts and Amherst are the two most would put their money on if expecting the winner to come from the NESCAC. As far as neutrals go, though, I think in a greater sense part of it is people probably being tired of the NESCAC winning six of the last seven national titles. When Tufts won its first the most recent NESCAC winner was Middlebury in 2007 (exactly seven years prior...to think it has been seven years since Tufts' first is interesting) and many were just happy to see someone other than Messiah so the novelty factor was there. Now, despite CC knocking out Tufts and winning its first title, the fact that it is a NESCAC probably dampens the novelty that would otherwise be present.

[d4_Pace]

Yeah I don't agree with the sentiments on W&L. They did everything they reasonably could and are clearly now one of the top 5 programs in the country at the moment.

The NESCAC thing is a real issue. Most teams start there season on a Tuesday then that weekend is when we see these big cross country trips. For some reason, the NESCAC administration in their infinite wisdom does not allow teams to play that weekend. So we start the following Tuesday/Wednesday and then go straight into a conference game on Saturday. The way its currently configured there really is almost no flexibility to squeeze in a big trip double header. I think with all the money Colby has invested they would schedule a Chicago road trip in a heart beat to differentiate themselves. At the moment the constraints seem to be logistical and timing more than financial or desire.

This was the first season the conference allowed longer pre-seasons more in line with the rest of the country so maybe they are finally moving in the right direction. But i'll believe it when I see it. The NESCAC just loves being high and mighty and thinking they are better than everyone else too much to change.

[d4_Pace]

I think people overestimate the NESCAC camaraderie. I did not want Conn to win and I did not want Amherst to win. I would have rooted for just about any other team. Obviously Conn should be super proud of what they accomplished and I know they won't care for one second what I think of the matter.

[PaulNewman]

Yeah I don't agree with the sentiments on W&L. They did everything they reasonably could and are clearly now one of the top 5 programs in the country at the moment.

The NESCAC thing is a real issue. Most teams start there season on a Tuesday then that weekend is when we see these big cross country trips. For some reason, the NESCAC administration in their infinite wisdom does not allow teams to play that weekend. So we start the following Tuesday/Wednesday and then go straight into a conference game on Saturday. The way its currently configured there really is almost no flexibility to squeeze in a big trip double header. I think with all the money Colby has invested they would schedule a Chicago road trip in a heart beat to differentiate themselves. At the moment the constraints seem to be logistical and timing more than financial or desire.

This was the first season the conference allowed longer pre-seasons more in line with the rest of the country so maybe they are finally moving in the right direction. But i'll believe it when I see it. The NESCAC just loves being high and mighty and thinking they are better than everyone else too much to change.

Fair enough.

I just think what the traditions were in 1985 don't have to remain totally the same in 2021.  If that first in-conference game got moved to the following Tues or Weds or Thurs then NESCACs in theory could travel.  It's just odd to see suggestions that similar schools should travel far distances and actually in fact do so and still get whacked.  I mean gestalt flips can be helpful if one doesn't do a knee-jerk rejection of them out of hand.  The W&L Prez and Trustees could tomorrow say no travel outside of 60 miles or no games that same week you all don't have games.  That would end it right there.  I totally get it, but the comeback of we just don't that or we have some special/arcane deal where we can't do that raises the question of why not and/or why there gets to be an assumption that other schools for whatever reason (elitism?) do get to stand on a similar claim.  And if we just accept that nothing can be changed, then the simplest answer to the criticism (I know you said you don't agree with the criticism) would be for W&L to simply say we don't travel at all either because our academics are too important.

If there is a change in NESCAC my guess is that it starts with Colby, which, while already superb 10, 15, 30 years ago, has morphed to another level and partly by doing some different things...and not by waiting for the peers or permission to make massive enhancements while their endowment balloons and reputation skyrockets.

[PaulNewman]

I think people overestimate the NESCAC camaraderie. I did not want Conn to win and I did not want Amherst to win. I would have rooted for just about any other team. Obviously Conn should be super proud of what they accomplished and I know they won't care for one second what I think of the matter.

Love this. I'm just kidding you....but you literally were just going on about NESCAC sportsmanship (or lack thereof) a week or two ago.