2021 NCAA Tournament

[wingtips2]

St. Olaf has a very cool hype video.

Very cool indeed. That coach hasn't even hit puberty by the looks of him. I keep an eye on the MIAC during the season, since that's where I played One Quarter Of A Million years ago. I watched St. Olaf play with discipline, creativity, poise--and had a couple of gnarly set piece plays to boot. When trying to evaluate where they stood on a national level, I didn't rate them like a Kenyon, Messiah, or Tufts, because teams can look very good against average opposition (to wit: MSU). I would love to have them prove me wrong, and see a Champion from the MIAC. You never know: this is football. Anything can happen.

Wall was a 3-time all american at OWU, winning national POTY in 2011, and a national championship in that same year.
He has another couple seasons in the national conversation and he's getting good D1 looks soon.

[Gregory Sager]

My favorite example of this try-to-fit-in syndrome among Swedes is a term with which many soccer coaches are familiar (and which causes many American and British athletes to snicker), fartlek. It refers to the type of interval training for running -- short sprints interspersed amidst stretches of walking and jogging -- that has become a standard in soccer training as well as for distance runners, because it obviously replicates the way that soccer players move throughout a game. Fartlek is a term invented by a couple of Swedish running coaches back in the mid-20th century that literally means "speed play" in Swedish, and it has become such a commonly-used loanword in the English-speaking sports world that it's now in the Oxford English Dictionary.

So what's the word that Swedish athletes and coaches currently use to describe distance interval training? Intervallträning. 

As someone who ran in HS/college and finished my first marathon in October, this was something I didn't know. It's not directly applicable to Swedish — rather going into English and how it got that way — but The Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson was a fascinating read. It basically explains that a number of words and phrases (and spellings) of English words are derived from errors or misunderstandings but the new use/pronunciation/etc. are persisted with, and it appears that the English translations of Swedish phrases or words are likely modified or misunderstood similarly. Still, if we're talking purely about how things are phrased in English, I like "speed play" over "interval training."

The Mother Tongue is one of my favorite books. Bryson is a terrific writer.

[Hopkins92]

Amherst goes 1-0 up in the 2nd minute. Giammattei takes a shot from the top of the 18, the 'keeper dove to save, but the rebound sat right up for Derby who made no mistake. I guess if we're being super critical we could say that the 'keeper didn't get the ball far enough out of danger, but tough to tell and the shot had some decent velocity on it so I'll give the benefit of the doubt.

One thing that has not changed over the years with the Mammoths is that they'll come out in the first 10 minutes really hard to try to get a goal. When it works and they get the jump, their high press — plus the fact that the opponent then has to come out — means that they can make it very lopsided very quickly if they get an advantage. Will be curious to see how the Beavers respond.

Was at the game - I can confirm what hasn't changed over the years is that Amherst has the most annoying bench and biggest bunch of whinging players on the field in all of college soccer.

I wonder if F&M played them at some point and tries to emulate it.

[Gregory Sager]

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

Not sure what geographics has to do with this. If you put NESCAC teams that finished 5-10 this year in several other region I or even region II conferences they'd win far more games and likely finish in the top 2 in many if not all of those conferences.  Hamilton, who finished 10th in the NESCAC this year and is quite talented, beat Oneonta in October.  Oneonta gave Mid a good game but finishes the year having lost to 2 NESCSAC teams. I don't think Cortland will be very competitive against Amherst, but we shall see.

Don't recall all of this year's games, but I believe in UAA v. NESCAC this year NESCAC teams won their games and I don't believe gave up a goal.  The two I recall are Tufts 4-0 over Brandeis and Conn 3-0 over NYU.  Both those NESCAC teams lost to or tied NESCAC teams that didn't get bids to the tournament.  I guess every year is different, but the last tournament had 2 NESCACs in the national finals, they have been ranked in the top 10 most of the year and yet the committee gave only 4 slots to NESCAC and 5 to UAA. I wouldn't chalk that up to geographics.  Probavbly more a misjudgment of conference strength.

There would have been no "misjudgment of conference strength," because conference strength is not one of the five primary criteria listed on page 23 of D3's Pre-Championships 2021-22 Manual. The only use of conference status is as a secondary criterion, not a primary one, and it's "Division III non-conference strength of schedule" (emphasis mine). Therefore, it actually doesn't have to do with conference strength at all; it's about non-conference strength.

You can't misjudge something you're not judging in the first place. One of the basic facts of the Pool C selection process is that teams are judged upon their own merits re: the criteria, not upon the merits of their respective conferences.

[Centennial1]

Aaah, the NPU play-by-play guy is overrated. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

Haha. Now I feel like the only kid in class that doesn't get the joke. I genuinely didn't know that was you.

My favorite example of this try-to-fit-in syndrome among Swedes is a term with which many soccer coaches are familiar (and which causes many American and British athletes to snicker), fartlek.

In adolescence, I used to make my American friends laugh hysterically at the Swedish word for 'speed' (fart), the number 6 (sex) and 'the end' (slut). Hiiiiilarious.

[PaulNewman]

St. Olaf has a very cool hype video.

Very cool indeed. That coach hasn't even hit puberty by the looks of him. I keep an eye on the MIAC during the season, since that's where I played One Quarter Of A Million years ago. I watched St. Olaf play with discipline, creativity, poise--and had a couple of gnarly set piece plays to boot. When trying to evaluate where they stood on a national level, I didn't rate them like a Kenyon, Messiah, or Tufts, because teams can look very good against average opposition (to wit: MSU). I would love to have them prove me wrong, and see a Champion from the MIAC. You never know: this is football. Anything can happen.

Wall was a 3-time all american at OWU, winning national POTY in 2011, and a national championship in that same year.
He has another couple seasons in the national conversation and he's getting good D1 looks soon.

A little bit more on Travis Wall, from OWU website circa 2015, who was top asst for Martin at OWU before going to St Olaf...


Prior to returning to Ohio Wesleyan in January, 2015, Wall served as director of soccer operations at Xavier University for the 2014 season, helping the Musketeers to the best season in the program's history.  Xavier advanced to the final 16 teams of the NCAA tournament, upsetting fifth-ranked Indiana along the way, and set school records with 15 victories and 11 shutouts.  The Xavier coaching staff was recognized as the Big East Coaching Staff of the Year.

Before going to Xavier, Wall signed with Minnesota United FC of the North American Soccer League, playing there for 2 seasons.  While playing in Minnesota, Wall began his coaching career at the University of St. Thomas (Minn.), helping guide the Tommies to a 21-9-7 record during the 2012 and 2013 seasons.

Wall is a 2012 graduate of Ohio Wesleyan.  He was one of the most-decorated players in Battling Bishop history, earning first-team All-America honors after his junior (2010) and senior (2011) seasons.  In 2011, he was named NCAA Division III Player of the Year after leading the Bishops to the national championship.  He posted 19 goals and 15 assists that season, and his 53 points was the second-highest single-season point total in Ohio Wesleyan history.  Wall totaled 49 goals and 36 assists during his career, ranking fifth on both Ohio Wesleyan career lists, and his 134 total points also ranked fifth.

Wall is the brother of Tyler Wall '11 and Sarah Wall '05, each of whom were 3-time All-America selections in soccer at Ohio Wesleyan.

In June, 2016, Wall completed his coursework toward a master's degree in recreation and sport sciences from Ohio University.

In addition to his duties at Ohio Wesleyan, Wall also serves as a club soccer coach with Ohio Premier Soccer Club. In 2016, Wall led his U16 boys team to a third-place finish at the U.S. Youth Soccer national championships after claiming the first boys Midwest regional title in club history.  In 2017, he became one of the youngest club coaches to serve as the head coach of a US Youth Soccer National League championship-winning side at the age of 26.  In 2018, his club team made history by winning the club's first-ever boys national championship at the U19 age group.

[Hopkins92]

Not to get too esoteric, but one of the traps folks fall into when trying to play the "well, if this team was in another region, they'd dominate" is that the high quality of a given conference (and region) is often based on the continued success and prestige of said conference (region).

IOW, coaches at NESCAC schools are absolutely recruiting using (in part) the idea that you are going to be playing in (arguably) the best conference in all of D3. Obviously, if you take a hypothetical situation where Hamilton gets dropped in, say the Landmark league (no disrespect), you are having to make a much different pitch to prospective players.

[SlideTackle]

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

Not sure what geographics has to do with this. If you put NESCAC teams that finished 5-10 this year in several other region I or even region II conferences they'd win far more games and likely finish in the top 2 in many if not all of those conferences.  Hamilton, who finished 10th in the NESCAC this year and is quite talented, beat Oneonta in October.  Oneonta gave Mid a good game but finishes the year having lost to 2 NESCSAC teams. I don't think Cortland will be very competitive against Amherst, but we shall see.

Don't recall all of this year's games, but I believe in UAA v. NESCAC this year NESCAC teams won their games and I don't believe gave up a goal.  The two I recall are Tufts 4-0 over Brandeis and Conn 3-0 over NYU.  Both those NESCAC teams lost to or tied NESCAC teams that didn't get bids to the tournament.  I guess every year is different, but the last tournament had 2 NESCACs in the national finals, they have been ranked in the top 10 most of the year and yet the committee gave only 4 slots to NESCAC and 5 to UAA. I wouldn't chalk that up to geographics.  Probavbly more a misjudgment of conference strength.

There would have been no "misjudgment of conference strength," because conference strength is not one of the five primary criteria listed on page 23 of D3's Pre-Championships 2021-22 Manual. The only use of conference status is as a secondary criterion, not a primary one, and it's "Division III non-conference strength of schedule" (emphasis mine). Therefore, it actually doesn't have to do with conference strength at all; it's about non-conference strength.

You can't misjudge something you're not judging in the first place. One of the basic facts of the Pool C selection process is that teams are judged upon their own merits re: the criteria, not upon the merits of their respective conferences.

Appreciate the explanation.  Is there no subjectivity involved in the selection process?  Meaning that those listed criteria are the only ones that the committee can consider and thus it's absolutely irrelevant to them if a conference is internally strong?   

[Gregory Sager]

Aaah, the NPU play-by-play guy is overrated. I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

Haha. Now I feel like the only kid in class that doesn't get the joke. I genuinely didn't know that was you.

My favorite example of this try-to-fit-in syndrome among Swedes is a term with which many soccer coaches are familiar (and which causes many American and British athletes to snicker), fartlek.

In adolescence, I used to make my American friends laugh hysterically at the Swedish word for 'speed' (fart), the number 6 (sex) and 'the end' (slut). Hiiiiilarious.

The long-standing joke among the NPU soccer faithful is that the number and severity of the cards received by the Vikings would go up exponentially if CCIW refs ever figured out what the likes of "Fan ta dig!", "Jävla pucko!", or "Men vafan!" actually mean.

(I'm too far away up in the press box to hear the dialogue on the pitch, but I get the sense that our current crop of Norwegians is more prone to use what Arlo White calls "fruity language" than are the Swedes.)

[Gregory Sager]

Not to get too esoteric, but one of the traps folks fall into when trying to play the "well, if this team was in another region, they'd dominate" is that the high quality of a given conference (and region) is often based on the continued success and prestige of said conference (region).

IOW, coaches at NESCAC schools are absolutely recruiting using (in part) the idea that you are going to be playing in (arguably) the best conference in all of D3. Obviously, if you take a hypothetical situation where Hamilton gets dropped in, say the Landmark league (no disrespect), you are having to make a much different pitch to prospective players.

Excellent point.

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

Not sure what geographics has to do with this. If you put NESCAC teams that finished 5-10 this year in several other region I or even region II conferences they'd win far more games and likely finish in the top 2 in many if not all of those conferences.  Hamilton, who finished 10th in the NESCAC this year and is quite talented, beat Oneonta in October.  Oneonta gave Mid a good game but finishes the year having lost to 2 NESCSAC teams. I don't think Cortland will be very competitive against Amherst, but we shall see.

Don't recall all of this year's games, but I believe in UAA v. NESCAC this year NESCAC teams won their games and I don't believe gave up a goal.  The two I recall are Tufts 4-0 over Brandeis and Conn 3-0 over NYU.  Both those NESCAC teams lost to or tied NESCAC teams that didn't get bids to the tournament.  I guess every year is different, but the last tournament had 2 NESCACs in the national finals, they have been ranked in the top 10 most of the year and yet the committee gave only 4 slots to NESCAC and 5 to UAA. I wouldn't chalk that up to geographics.  Probavbly more a misjudgment of conference strength.

There would have been no "misjudgment of conference strength," because conference strength is not one of the five primary criteria listed on page 23 of D3's Pre-Championships 2021-22 Manual. The only use of conference status is as a secondary criterion, not a primary one, and it's "Division III non-conference strength of schedule" (emphasis mine). Therefore, it actually doesn't have to do with conference strength at all; it's about non-conference strength.

You can't misjudge something you're not judging in the first place. One of the basic facts of the Pool C selection process is that teams are judged upon their own merits re: the criteria, not upon the merits of their respective conferences.

Appreciate the explanation.  Is there no subjectivity involved in the selection process?  Meaning that those listed criteria are the only ones that the committee can consider and thus it's absolutely irrelevant to them if a conference is internally strong?   

No, there is some subjectivity. But it's a subjectivity that's based upon the criteria. Do we accent SOS over winning percentage? How much weight do we give RRO? Is Team A from one region so close a match for Team B from another region that we have to go to the secondary criteria to decide between them? That sort of thing is where the subjectivity comes into play.

But if it's something that isn't covered within either the primary or secondary criteria (e.g., conference strength), it's not going to be a part of the committee's conversation on Selection Day.

[Flying Weasel]

6 straight Sweet 16s/Round of 16 (whatever it is called in D3 soccer) for Calvin.  I could do the research, but does anyone know off the top of their head if there are any longer current streaks out there?

Others have already pointed out the current sweet 16 streaks.  There was a stretch (2004-2010) where Messiah won the title 6 out of 7 years and the year they didn't, they lost in the sectional final. 

Actually, Messiah lost in the national semifinal in 2007 in the long overdue Trinity-Messiah match-up.

I was wrong earlier when I suggested that Messiah women's streak of 16 straight Sweet 16's was probably the record.  Actually TCNJ women holds the record with 20 straight advancements to the Sweet 16 (1991-2010)!  That's followed by Wheaton (Ill.) women with 17 straight (1997-2013). I think the longest streak of reaching the Sweet 16 on the men's side would be Messiah with 13 from 1998 - 2010 (and 16 of 17 from 1998-2014). So Amherst, now with 11, is closing in.

As for Elite 8 streaks, Messiah went 7 straight years (2004-2010) and 14 of 16 years (1999-2014).  Scranton also made 7 straight Elite 8 (1977-1983) back when the tournament field was much smaller (16 teams until 1979, 24 in 1980, and then 32 from 1981 thru the mid-90's) which had advantages and disadvantages for putting together streaks like this.  I think those are the longest streaks in D-III men's soccer.  UNC-Greensboro were in the Elite 8 their final 6 years in D-III (1982-1987). For the women, Messiah had a run of 9 straight Elite 8's (2004-2012) and 15 of 18 (2002-2019).

Final Four streaks: Messiah men went 7 straight years (2004-2010) and 12 of 14 years (2000-2013); Messiah women went 9 straight years (2004-2012) and 14 of 18 years (2002-2019).  Scranton men might be the next highest with 4 straight Final Fours (1980-1983).

[SlideTackle]

Not to get too esoteric, but one of the traps folks fall into when trying to play the "well, if this team was in another region, they'd dominate" is that the high quality of a given conference (and region) is often based on the continued success and prestige of said conference (region).

IOW, coaches at NESCAC schools are absolutely recruiting using (in part) the idea that you are going to be playing in (arguably) the best conference in all of D3. Obviously, if you take a hypothetical situation where Hamilton gets dropped in, say the Landmark league (no disrespect), you are having to make a much different pitch to prospective players.

Excellent point.

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

Not sure what geographics has to do with this. If you put NESCAC teams that finished 5-10 this year in several other region I or even region II conferences they'd win far more games and likely finish in the top 2 in many if not all of those conferences.  Hamilton, who finished 10th in the NESCAC this year and is quite talented, beat Oneonta in October.  Oneonta gave Mid a good game but finishes the year having lost to 2 NESCSAC teams. I don't think Cortland will be very competitive against Amherst, but we shall see.

Don't recall all of this year's games, but I believe in UAA v. NESCAC this year NESCAC teams won their games and I don't believe gave up a goal.  The two I recall are Tufts 4-0 over Brandeis and Conn 3-0 over NYU.  Both those NESCAC teams lost to or tied NESCAC teams that didn't get bids to the tournament.  I guess every year is different, but the last tournament had 2 NESCACs in the national finals, they have been ranked in the top 10 most of the year and yet the committee gave only 4 slots to NESCAC and 5 to UAA. I wouldn't chalk that up to geographics.  Probavbly more a misjudgment of conference strength.

There would have been no "misjudgment of conference strength," because conference strength is not one of the five primary criteria listed on page 23 of D3's Pre-Championships 2021-22 Manual. The only use of conference status is as a secondary criterion, not a primary one, and it's "Division III non-conference strength of schedule" (emphasis mine). Therefore, it actually doesn't have to do with conference strength at all; it's about non-conference strength.

You can't misjudge something you're not judging in the first place. One of the basic facts of the Pool C selection process is that teams are judged upon their own merits re: the criteria, not upon the merits of their respective conferences.

Appreciate the explanation.  Is there no subjectivity involved in the selection process?  Meaning that those listed criteria are the only ones that the committee can consider and thus it's absolutely irrelevant to them if a conference is internally strong?   

No, there is some subjectivity. But it's a subjectivity that's based upon the criteria. Do we accent SOS over winning percentage? How much weight do we give RRO? Is Team A from one region so close a match for Team B from another region that we have to go to the secondary criteria to decide between them? That sort of thing is where the subjectivity comes into play.

But if it's something that isn't covered within either the primary or secondary criteria (e.g., conference strength), it's not going to be a part of the committee's conversation on Selection Day.

Thanks!  Very helpful to understand.

[Hopkins92]

(But, just like with D1 that lean on RPI or other metrics, there are always unwritten and mostly unspoken influences on selection committees... Say it with me now... BIAS.)

[d4_Pace]

St. Olaf has a very cool hype video.

Very cool indeed. That coach hasn't even hit puberty by the looks of him. I keep an eye on the MIAC during the season, since that's where I played One Quarter Of A Million years ago. I watched St. Olaf play with discipline, creativity, poise--and had a couple of gnarly set piece plays to boot. When trying to evaluate where they stood on a national level, I didn't rate them like a Kenyon, Messiah, or Tufts, because teams can look very good against average opposition (to wit: MSU). I would love to have them prove me wrong, and see a Champion from the MIAC. You never know: this is football. Anything can happen.

Wall was a 3-time all american at OWU, winning national POTY in 2011, and a national championship in that same year.
He has another couple seasons in the national conversation and he's getting good D1 looks soon.

A little bit more on Travis Wall, from OWU website circa 2015, who was top asst for Martin at OWU before going to St Olaf...

Wall is a 2012 graduate of Ohio Wesleyan.  He was one of the most-decorated players in Battling Bishop history, earning first-team All-America honors after his junior (2010) and senior (2011) seasons.  In 2011, he was named NCAA Division III Player of the Year after leading the Bishops to the national championship.  He posted 19 goals and 15 assists that season, and his 53 points was the second-highest single-season point total in Ohio Wesleyan history.  Wall totaled 49 goals and 36 assists during his career, ranking fifth on both Ohio Wesleyan career lists, and his 134 total points also ranked fifth.

Wall is the brother of Tyler Wall '11 and Sarah Wall '05, each of whom were 3-time All-America selections in soccer at Ohio Wesleyan.

Who do you think holds bragging rights at thanksgiving dinner... the brother and sister with 3 all-american picks or Travis with his paltry two and a NPOY.

[PaulNewman]

St. Olaf has a very cool hype video.

Very cool indeed. That coach hasn't even hit puberty by the looks of him. I keep an eye on the MIAC during the season, since that's where I played One Quarter Of A Million years ago. I watched St. Olaf play with discipline, creativity, poise--and had a couple of gnarly set piece plays to boot. When trying to evaluate where they stood on a national level, I didn't rate them like a Kenyon, Messiah, or Tufts, because teams can look very good against average opposition (to wit: MSU). I would love to have them prove me wrong, and see a Champion from the MIAC. You never know: this is football. Anything can happen.

Wall was a 3-time all american at OWU, winning national POTY in 2011, and a national championship in that same year.
He has another couple seasons in the national conversation and he's getting good D1 looks soon.

A little bit more on Travis Wall, from OWU website circa 2015, who was top asst for Martin at OWU before going to St Olaf...

Wall is a 2012 graduate of Ohio Wesleyan.  He was one of the most-decorated players in Battling Bishop history, earning first-team All-America honors after his junior (2010) and senior (2011) seasons.  In 2011, he was named NCAA Division III Player of the Year after leading the Bishops to the national championship.  He posted 19 goals and 15 assists that season, and his 53 points was the second-highest single-season point total in Ohio Wesleyan history.  Wall totaled 49 goals and 36 assists during his career, ranking fifth on both Ohio Wesleyan career lists, and his 134 total points also ranked fifth.

Wall is the brother of Tyler Wall '11 and Sarah Wall '05, each of whom were 3-time All-America selections in soccer at Ohio Wesleyan.

Who do you think holds bragging rights at thanksgiving dinner... the brother and sister with 3 all-american picks or Travis with his paltry two and a NPOY.

Careful....could easily morph into a Messiah Nation trip down memory lane