2021 NCAA Tournament

[wingtips2]

St. Olaf has a very cool hype video.

Very cool indeed. That coach hasn't even hit puberty by the looks of him. I keep an eye on the MIAC during the season, since that's where I played One Quarter Of A Million years ago. I watched St. Olaf play with discipline, creativity, poise--and had a couple of gnarly set piece plays to boot. When trying to evaluate where they stood on a national level, I didn't rate them like a Kenyon, Messiah, or Tufts, because teams can look very good against average opposition (to wit: MSU). I would love to have them prove me wrong, and see a Champion from the MIAC. You never know: this is football. Anything can happen.

Wall was a 3-time all american at OWU, winning national POTY in 2011, and a national championship in that same year.
He has another couple seasons in the national conversation and he's getting good D1 looks soon.

A little bit more on Travis Wall, from OWU website circa 2015, who was top asst for Martin at OWU before going to St Olaf...

Wall is a 2012 graduate of Ohio Wesleyan.  He was one of the most-decorated players in Battling Bishop history, earning first-team All-America honors after his junior (2010) and senior (2011) seasons.  In 2011, he was named NCAA Division III Player of the Year after leading the Bishops to the national championship.  He posted 19 goals and 15 assists that season, and his 53 points was the second-highest single-season point total in Ohio Wesleyan history.  Wall totaled 49 goals and 36 assists during his career, ranking fifth on both Ohio Wesleyan career lists, and his 134 total points also ranked fifth.

Wall is the brother of Tyler Wall '11 and Sarah Wall '05, each of whom were 3-time All-America selections in soccer at Ohio Wesleyan.

Who do you think holds bragging rights at thanksgiving dinner... the brother and sister with 3 all-american picks or Travis with his paltry two and a NPOY.

Travis edges Tyler since he had the higher honors.
But Sarah is top dog in that discussion.

Travis National POTY.  Natty championship.  4 conference champs and 2 conference tourneys.  3-time first team all-ncac. 
Tyler made two 3rd teams and a first team. 4-time first team NCAC and 2-time NCAC POTY.  Won three league titles, two tourney titles.
Sarah has two first team awards and a 2nd team.  Also has 3 first team academic all-american selections and was a 4-time NCAC 1st team and POTY.  To top it off, she also has an unblemished national championship.

[Gregory Sager]

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

Not sure what geographics has to do with this. If you put NESCAC teams that finished 5-10 this year in several other region I or even region II conferences they'd win far more games and likely finish in the top 2 in many if not all of those conferences.  Hamilton, who finished 10th in the NESCAC this year and is quite talented, beat Oneonta in October.  Oneonta gave Mid a good game but finishes the year having lost to 2 NESCSAC teams. I don't think Cortland will be very competitive against Amherst, but we shall see.

Don't recall all of this year's games, but I believe in UAA v. NESCAC this year NESCAC teams won their games and I don't believe gave up a goal.  The two I recall are Tufts 4-0 over Brandeis and Conn 3-0 over NYU.  Both those NESCAC teams lost to or tied NESCAC teams that didn't get bids to the tournament.  I guess every year is different, but the last tournament had 2 NESCACs in the national finals, they have been ranked in the top 10 most of the year and yet the committee gave only 4 slots to NESCAC and 5 to UAA. I wouldn't chalk that up to geographics.  Probavbly more a misjudgment of conference strength.

Geography has EVERYTHING to do with it.
There are a limited number of Pool C spots.  They can't all be teams from New England, where every NESCAC team is based. 

Sure they can. There's nothing stopping the committee from giving all 21 Pool C bids to New England teams, if they think that each of those New England teams warrant one of those 21 berths. It's extraordinarily implausible -- the odds are staggering against it ever happening -- but it's certainly within the rules. There's nothing in the manual that says that Pool C bids can only be apportioned to regionally-ranked teams. Theoretically, the committee can delve below the ranked teams if all of the ranked Pool C aspirants from that region have already come off of the table. (And, of course, New England falls within two regions, not one.)

Also, a nitpick: Despite the league's name, not every NESCAC team is based in New England.

Let's look at this year.
Wesleyan is 5th in the NESCAC and 5th in the regional rankings. 
Entering them in the tournament would give four of the 21 pool C bids to one region - which isn't unheard of, but it doesn't seem to be an annual occurrence. 

The four UAA teams receiving pool C bids all were top 2 in their regions, pretty much guaranteeing (based on historical norms) those teams spots in the tournament. 

Now imagine that all the UAA teams are in one region this year.  Rochester would likely be rated 5th best in that 'region' after finishing .500 in the conference, good for 6th place.  Do they get into the tournament?  Unlikely. 

But, in real life, the committee will be thinking, "do we pick the #5 team in this region in order to keep out one of these four teams ranked #2 in their region?" That #5 NESCAC team would have to be demonstrably better, ie beaten one of the UAA teams head-to-head, in order to take that pool c slot.

It doesn't work that way. I've listened to any number of committee members from various D3 sports speak on this topic, and they always say the same thing, regardless of sport: "The team that we pick comes off of the table, is replaced at the table by the next team in rank from that region, and then we start the comparison process all over again."

In other words, the only advantage inherent in being #2 in one region as opposed to #5 in a different region is that the #2 gets to the table quicker, and is there at the table for more rounds (if it doesn't get in) than is the case for the #5 team. The #5 team from Region Alpha may actually be better on the criteria merits than the #2 team from Region Beta; it may simply have to wait until the four Alpha teams above it are already in the field (presumably, one or more of them are automatically in via Pool A) before it gets a chance to prove itself against Beta's #2 in the discussion. There's no specific need for Alpha #5 to have beaten Beta #2, or any team from Beta #2's league, head-to-head in order to take that Pool C slot.

In other words, there's no bonus awarded to a team for being ranked higher in its region than other teams were ranked in their respective regions when they're all at the table together in the Selection Day process.

  Because the UAA is spread out geographically, when they have teams sitting at the top of their region (as was the case this year), they are going to get more bids than a geographically concentrated conference.

That is a narrower point than I think you're trying to prove, vis-a-vis Rochester vs. Wesleyan for Pool C, for at least a couple of reasons that immediately come to mind:

1) The first condition of your premise must be met, and it's definitely not a given. Various UAA teams have to actually be good enough to make their respective regional rankings en masse in order for this to even be an issue. The fact that they do this year after year shouldn't be overlooked; the bottom line is that the UAA is replete with really good D3 soccer programs. The corollary is proven true in other sports (baseball and softball being great examples) in which UAA schools aren't notably good as a whole; in 2019, only two UAA baseball teams made the D3 tourney and only two UAA softball teams made the D3 tourney, despite the fact that the D3 tourney fields in those sports were roughly the same size as the D3 men's soccer tourney field.

2) Geography is the friend of the NESCAC as well. Because the NESCAC is almost completely located within the most heavily D3-populated part of the country (New England), and because New England is so geographically compact, scheduling strategically with Pool C in mind is easier for NESCAC teams than it is for most other prominent leagues in D3 men's soccer. Some UAA programs have a fairly user-friendly menu of local D3 opponents from which to schedule strategically (Brandeis, Chicago, NYU); for others it requires a fair amount of weekday bus travel to make it happen (Wash U, Carnegie Mellon); and for one it's really difficult, period (Emory). Keep in mind that not every school within weekday bus range of a UAA or NESCAC school has a soccer coach who is willing to play that UAA or NESCAC team.

Yes, if your premise is met -- a very big if, as any UAA baseball or softball coach will tell you -- being the lone geographically dispersed conference in D3 with regard to regions is a plus. But it's not an overriding plus to the point where the UAA can crowd out other teams by sheer virtue of multi-regional representation. The UAA teams still have to get in via Pool C on their own particular merits.

[Buck O.]

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

I'm just catching up on the last couple of days and I don't think anyone addressed your last question.

In addition to being more similar to UAA schools in terms of size, Tufts is also in a major metro area, like all of the UAA schools (although I'm stretching that definition a little to accommodate Rochester) and unlike the other NESCAC schools (except potentially for Trinity, depending on your opinion of Hartford).  But Tufts has been in the NESCAC since it was formed in 1971.  The UAA wasn't formed until 1986.  So by that time, Tufts was a longstanding member of the NESCAC and it has had no particular desire to leave.

If we were putting together conferences today, from scratch, there's reason to believe that Tufts would be in the UAA, as it certainly does look a lot more like a UAA school than a NESCAC school.  But it's certainly not automatic: While UAA charter member Hopkins was and continues to be more like the UAA schools than the schools in the Centennial, they nevertheless left the UAA and haven't shown any interest in returning, AFAIK.

[Mr.Right]

St. Olaf has a very cool hype video.

This is absolutely fantastic. What a facility and I am really looking forward to the games today as a neutral.

Friday:

2:00PM        North Park v St.Olaf

4:30PM        Chicago v Calvin

Saturday:

4:00PM        Winners

[Gotberg]

St. Olaf has a very cool hype video.

This is absolutely fantastic. What a facility and I am really looking forward to the games today as a neutral.

Friday:

2:00PM        North Park v St.Olaf

4:30PM        Chicago v Calvin

Saturday:

4:00PM        Winners

I believe these times are eastern.

[Hopkins92]

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

I'm just catching up on the last couple of days and I don't think anyone addressed your last question.

In addition to being more similar to UAA schools in terms of size, Tufts is also in a major metro area, like all of the UAA schools (although I'm stretching that definition a little to accommodate Rochester) and unlike the other NESCAC schools (except potentially for Trinity, depending on your opinion of Hartford).  But Tufts has been in the NESCAC since it was formed in 1971.  The UAA wasn't formed until 1986.  So by that time, Tufts was a longstanding member of the NESCAC and it has had no particular desire to leave.

If we were putting together conferences today, from scratch, there's reason to believe that Tufts would be in the UAA, as it certainly does look a lot more like a UAA school than a NESCAC school.  But it's certainly not automatic: While UAA charter member Hopkins was and continues to be more like the UAA schools than the schools in the Centennial, they nevertheless left the UAA and haven't shown any interest in returning, AFAIK.

The other thing with Hopkins in the UAA is that they were only kind of/sort of in... They didn't compete in soccer, AFAIK and I don't think they did in football, either. I could be wrong, but of the major sports, I think they only competed in basketball?

I know that prior to the Centennial, most of those that broke off were charter (or very close to original) members of the first iteration of the Mid-Atlantic Conference. We competed in the smaller version of the MAC while I played in Baltimore.

[Hopkins92]

Well, my YouTube algorithm is finally fully tuned up... This just showed up in my feed this morning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVHzTm_WQjI

I know the Shoremen have picked up some fans this season... Fun little hype video they put out earlier this week.

[Gregory Sager]

SlideTackle, I think saying NESCAC got no respect is a bit of distortion.  They did get 4, which is pretty good and about what they usually get.  Yes, they deserved five this year. And yes, they should have gotten one of the Centennial bids and Rochester should not have received a bid.

The geographic concentration of the NESCAC in a singular area doesn't help their case. 
The UAA is spread out and each of the teams could be theoretically be considered top team in their region and have the entire conference get in. 
And the Centennial teams have a lot more wiggle room geographically as well. 

And this has probably been discussed before, but why isn't Tufts in the UAA?  Their academic profile as a research university with endless graduate programs certainly matches the UAA teams more than the NESCAC.

I'm just catching up on the last couple of days and I don't think anyone addressed your last question.

In addition to being more similar to UAA schools in terms of size, Tufts is also in a major metro area, like all of the UAA schools (although I'm stretching that definition a little to accommodate Rochester) and unlike the other NESCAC schools (except potentially for Trinity, depending on your opinion of Hartford).  But Tufts has been in the NESCAC since it was formed in 1971.  The UAA wasn't formed until 1986.  So by that time, Tufts was a longstanding member of the NESCAC and it has had no particular desire to leave.

If we were putting together conferences today, from scratch, there's reason to believe that Tufts would be in the UAA, as it certainly does look a lot more like a UAA school than a NESCAC school.  But it's certainly not automatic: While UAA charter member Hopkins was and continues to be more like the UAA schools than the schools in the Centennial, they nevertheless left the UAA and haven't shown any interest in returning, AFAIK.

The other thing with Hopkins in the UAA is that they were only kind of/sort of in... They didn't compete in soccer, AFAIK and I don't think they did in football, either. I could be wrong, but of the major sports, I think they only competed in basketball?

Johns Hopkins did compete in UAA basketball, but the Blue Jays only played a single round-robin each season and were thus ineligible for the UAA title, since the league's scheduling format was (and is) the double round-robin used by most D3 conferences in basketball. Interestingly, Case Western Reserve only played a single round-robin (and was thus also ineligible for the UAA title) as well until it finally went all-in and went to the full home-and-home UAA slate in 1999-00. JHU finally dropped the one-toe-in-the-pool attitude towards UAA membership it'd had for a decade and a half and left the league altogether after the 2000-01 school year.

[Mr.Right]

0-0 30 minutes in. Both teams feeling it out 1st Half. North Park does see a matchup they like as they keep attacking St.Olaf LB.

[Mr.Right]

North Park coming now...about 2-3 good looks 10 min left 1st Half...Need to finish one of those.

[Mr.Right]

0-0 Half....Announcers for U Chicago absolutely excellent and correct that North Park starting to wear down a tired St.Olaf midfield. Even with a St.Olaf 25 yard shot the North Park defense does not seem to bothered by anything St.Olaf is bringing forward as of now.

[Centennial1]

Good half of football. Both teams had opportunities. The Oles made two square passes in the midfield which could have cost them--one leading to a 3-on-2 counter that had everything except the finish. NPU is relying on the long ball whereas the Oles are moving the ball through the midfield very crisply, catching NPU defenders  on the weak side. Either team could win this.

[Hopkins92]

Great job with the announcing!

I think St. Olaf has come out of the HT pretty hot. Very even game, IMO.

[Hopkins92]

Now NP taking control. Two very strong chances in the 20th minute or thereabouts.

Overall, really good game.

[Centennial1]

Great goal for NPU. It was coming. I think it was the 49 who weighted a perfect pass. Good player.