2021 NCAA Tournament

[College Soccer Observer]

Could you amplify your comment regarding handling defeat?

[camosfan]

Just a comment, NCAA needs to institute stricter guidelines for yellow and red cards when a coach can make 12 twelve substitutions in a period!

[College Soccer Observer]

Not sure what red and yellow cards have to do with substitutions.  The reason the sub rule is the way it is is because of many D3 institutions who want to be able to play a lot of people.  Unless there is a major change of heart by D3 schools, the rule will not change.

[camosfan]

Currently yellow cards are almost meaningless from a team's point of view,it does not have the same effect as in a league with two ,or even  five subs and this in the long run limits the growth in players abilities.

[PaulNewman]

Currently yellow cards are almost meaningless from a team's point of view,it does not have the same effect as in a league with two ,or even  five subs and this in the long run limits the growth in players abilities.

Not clear at all to me at least what you'r talking about.  If teams got more cards then more players would be sent off?  And then the game would be better with less players and less substitutions?  Or you want more coaches to get yellows and reds? 

[PaulNewman]

Could you amplify your comment regarding handling defeat?

I agree that deserves some explanation.

I will say as someone who has a lot of practice, concession and giving credit posts can be brutally hard.  Even when intending to be fully gracious and magnanimous, 95% is about as good as it gets.  Hard not to take at least a mild swipe at someone.

What's most interesting to me is how personal and deep our affiliations with our teams go.  Like for at least a decent portion of us the hypersensitivity and readiness to defend our tribe so to speak are off the charts. 

[PaulNewman]

Most of the best teams substitute liberally.  And many of those subs are core parts of the team and critical to winning....not to mention that their growth as players has some value as well.

[College Soccer Observer]

Could you amplify your comment regarding handling defeat?

I agree that deserves some explanation.

I will say as someone who has a lot of practice, concession and giving credit posts can be brutally hard.  Even when intending to be fully gracious and magnanimous, 95% is about as good as it gets.  Hard not to take at least a mild swipe at someone.

What's most interesting to me is how personal and deep our affiliations with our teams go.  Like for at least a decent portion of us the hypersensitivity and readiness to defend our tribe so to speak are off the charts.

@d4_Pace, if I am making incorrect assumptions, I apologize.  Based on your NESCAC rivals comment, I took that as a shot at Middlebury following their loss to Amherst.  I was at the game. There was an unseemly situation after the final whistle that was provoked by Amherst.  In both of Midd's 1-0 losses to Amherst, the GK, Kofi Hope-Gund, ran at Middlebury players and taunted them after the whistle.  In October, he targeted Jordan Saint-Louis.  There was more of the same yesterday.  Instead of celebrating with his teammates, Hope-Gund again went after a Midd player.  Many players from both teams came together, and #17 from Amherst drilled Middlebury's goalkeeper Ryan Grady in the face with a forearm.  The referees did not issue any cards to anyone.  In fact, there was only one yellow given the whole game, to McFarlane from Midd for complaining about timewasting by Amherst in the closing minutes.  Once again Serpone was riding the refs for the entire game, and he certainly does nothing to put a stop to his team's antics. 

[Mr.Right]

And the Generals get the first. A beautiful team effort. A solid run, couple beautiful passes and Adrian Zimmerman is now the D3 record holder for goals in a single tournament. A fantastic goal slightly against the run of play.

Yup someone finally beat Brad Murray's 8 Goals in an NCAA Tournament in 1995. 26 years he held that but records are meant to be broken. Congrats to Zimmerman who knotted another and now has 10 goals with maybe 2 games remaining. I think it is safe to say he will have this record for at least another 25 years.

[Mr.Right]

Question...For the NCAA Semi's and Final will those be available all weekend on NCAA.com or will you have to catch the games live?

[d4_Pace]

Could you amplify your comment regarding handling defeat?

I agree that deserves some explanation.

I will say as someone who has a lot of practice, concession and giving credit posts can be brutally hard.  Even when intending to be fully gracious and magnanimous, 95% is about as good as it gets.  Hard not to take at least a mild swipe at someone.

What's most interesting to me is how personal and deep our affiliations with our teams go.  Like for at least a decent portion of us the hypersensitivity and readiness to defend our tribe so to speak are off the charts.

@d4_Pace, if I am making incorrect assumptions, I apologize.  Based on your NESCAC rivals comment, I took that as a shot at Middlebury following their loss to Amherst.  I was at the game. There was an unseemly situation after the final whistle that was provoked by Amherst.  In both of Midd's 1-0 losses to Amherst, the GK, Kofi Hope-Gund, ran at Middlebury players and taunted them after the whistle.  In October, he targeted Jordan Saint-Louis.  There was more of the same yesterday.  Instead of celebrating with his teammates, Hope-Gund again went after a Midd player.  Many players from both teams came together, and #17 from Amherst drilled Middlebury's goalkeeper Ryan Grady in the face with a forearm.  The referees did not issue any cards to anyone.  In fact, there was only one yellow given the whole game, to McFarlane from Midd for complaining about timewasting by Amherst in the closing minutes.  Once again Serpone was riding the refs for the entire game, and he certainly does nothing to put a stop to his team's antics.

I agree that Amherst was probably the instigator and this can be added to a long list of such incidents.But it's obviously not a good look for either program. I have a lot of respect for Midd and their coaches but you can't let that happen at the end of the game. You almost have to expect that to happen coming in and be prepared not to engage. I know it's obviously a thousand times easier said than done.

I also was not at the game and am just going off of what could be seen on screen so I'm sure people there can provide a better perspective.

TLDR: Amherst are going to do what they do and you can't take the bait.

[jknezek]

Could you amplify your comment regarding handling defeat?

I agree that deserves some explanation.

I will say as someone who has a lot of practice, concession and giving credit posts can be brutally hard.  Even when intending to be fully gracious and magnanimous, 95% is about as good as it gets.  Hard not to take at least a mild swipe at someone.

What's most interesting to me is how personal and deep our affiliations with our teams go.  Like for at least a decent portion of us the hypersensitivity and readiness to defend our tribe so to speak are off the charts.

@d4_Pace, if I am making incorrect assumptions, I apologize.  Based on your NESCAC rivals comment, I took that as a shot at Middlebury following their loss to Amherst.  I was at the game. There was an unseemly situation after the final whistle that was provoked by Amherst.  In both of Midd's 1-0 losses to Amherst, the GK, Kofi Hope-Gund, ran at Middlebury players and taunted them after the whistle.  In October, he targeted Jordan Saint-Louis.  There was more of the same yesterday.  Instead of celebrating with his teammates, Hope-Gund again went after a Midd player.  Many players from both teams came together, and #17 from Amherst drilled Middlebury's goalkeeper Ryan Grady in the face with a forearm.  The referees did not issue any cards to anyone.  In fact, there was only one yellow given the whole game, to McFarlane from Midd for complaining about timewasting by Amherst in the closing minutes.  Once again Serpone was riding the refs for the entire game, and he certainly does nothing to put a stop to his team's antics.

I agree that Amherst was probably the instigator and this can be added to a long list of such incidents.But it's obviously not a good look for either program. I have a lot of respect for Midd and their coaches but you can't let that happen at the end of the game. You almost have to expect that to happen coming in and be prepared not to engage. I know it's obviously a thousand times easier said than done.

I also was not at the game and am just going off of what could be seen on screen so I'm sure people there can provide a better perspective.

TLDR: Amherst are going to do what they do and you can't take the bait.

Here's the thing... Amherst has been doing this a long time. Sometimes you have to take the bully and show them the consequences. Clearly the NESCAC has little interest in doing it, and the refs seem happy to take the constant whining and ignore the little cheap shots.

I'm not sure why, but eventually it's ok by me to haul back and punch the bully in the nose... so long as you are willing to accept the consequences on the other side. After the season, especially if you are an outgoing senior who has put up with them for 4 years... I might have been willing to accept whatever happens to land a few licks on a taunting player.

I know, society frowns on this. We are too enlightened or some such b.s.  But if the grownups aren't going to reign it in... well they shouldn't be surprised at the results.

[PaulNewman]

I think what society frowns on or doesn't frown on often is very unclear and can be a moving target, and in our world of hypocrisy, double standards, whataboutism,  and a culture where 'truth' no longer has any real basis and depends so heavily on which channel you watch.....well, you get the point...and other than that semi-gratuitous riff I basically agree with @jkenezek.

The problem here, without knowing all the details of the in-game vibe and aftermaths of both games, is the attempt to compare.  Based on what we've read here one might conclude that Conn didn't engage in the same behavior as a victor as Amherst did, so Tufts' alleged very fine, mature behavior against Conn (if that's even true) can't by some weird associative property be used to suggest that Tufts would have responded better to Amherst than Midd did.

Also wondering if there is just a very, very mild suggestion that some losses are harder to absorb and therefore some extra credit is in order if a team and its fans believe a loss is unique and/or implausible compared to all the other teams and fans that have to deal with losses.  When you are absolutely certain you're going to win the national title or get to the Final 4, do you get more kudos for handling that trauma?  And where when the entitlement and sense of superiority are so strong that a loss in the 1st or 2nd round is unfathomable and must be externally justified with the ability to be magnanimous increasing a little each round so that an Elite 8 or NCAA semi defeat are a bit easier to handle with more grace.

[Centennial1]

TLDR: Amherst are going to do what they do and you can't take the bait.

Which brings me to something that's been rattling around in my (alleged) mind that I would love to hear some comments on. If you accept that Division 3 soccer is, at its core, an activity that colleges offer to enhance the experience, learning and maturation of their students and not a stepping stone to a career playing professional soccer, what do the institutions owe to their 'student athletes' in terms of tactical, technical and ethical instructions? Should a program recruit for and coach a style of play that mimics great football at the highest level, or should they recruit and coach to win at the D3 level? Turns out that the best D3 teams employ both philosophies (more on that in a moment), because both philosophies can win nantional titles.

To wit: this year's final four (buckle up, I'm about to make wild generalizations about your favorite team which are unfair, but deal with it!) are comprised of two teams that play with possession and control, trying to break down lines with ball movement and creativity, and two teams that use size, speed, athleticism and physical aggression to win. At a higher level of play, the blast-in-the-box and smash it home is much less effective, but it turns out that at the D3 level, it's good enough to win about half of the national titles over the past, say, 20 years.

So the question is: should D3 soccer programs try to play 'good football', or should they try to win at any cost.

[PaulNewman]

TLDR: Amherst are going to do what they do and you can't take the bait.

Which brings me to something that's been rattling around in my (alleged) mind that I would love to hear some comments on. If you accept that Division 3 soccer is, at its core, an activity that colleges offer to enhance the experience, learning and maturation of their students and not a stepping stone to a career playing professional soccer, what do the institutions owe to their 'student athletes' in terms of tactical, technical and ethical instructions? Should a program recruit for and coach a style of play that mimics great football at the highest level, or should they recruit and coach to win at the D3 level? Turns out that the best D3 teams employ both philosophies (more on that in a moment), because both philosophies can win nantional titles.

To wit: this year's final four (buckle up, I'm about to make wild generalizations about your favorite team which are unfair, but deal with it!) are comprised of two teams that play with possession and control, trying to break down lines with ball movement and creativity, and two teams that use size, speed, athleticism and physical aggression to win. At a higher level of play, the blast-in-the-box and smash it home is much less effective, but it turns out that at the D3 level, it's good enough to win about half of the national titles over the past, say, 20 years.

So the question is: should D3 soccer programs try to play 'good football', or should they try to win at any cost.

The correlation you're trying to make between playing the beautiful game beautifully and ethics seems more than a little strained.  In other words, the choice as you pose it doesn't follow.  A kick and run team might not have a win at any cost attitude and their morals might be impeccable.

BTW, who is the second athleticism and physical aggression team in the Final 4?