2022 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Gregory Sager]

NPU just isn't playing Top 10 soccer right now. In fact, I don't even think that the Vikings are playing Top 25 soccer. Multiple breakaway opportunities came away empty last night, while Carthage, which only had three good looks in the entire game, converted on two of them. No snub intended of the Firebirds, who played with heart and discipline last night and rightly earned the draw, but that should've been a North Park win. Add that to desultory performances against Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin -- and the Vikings didn't even look all that impressive in their 4-0 pummeling of hapless Augustana, which I originally chalked up to disinterest -- and it feels like something got knocked out of the Vikings in that second-half debacle at Chicago that they haven't been able to get back. The only really good performance that I've seen out of the Vikings since then has been the win at Elmhurst.

Of course, as I say this I realize that I'm badmouthing an 11-1-2 team. But the NPU program has earned the right to be held in lofty regard, and the flip side of that is that NPU has to be judged by the standards of a program that has reached at least the second weekend of the D3 tourney in three of the last four seasons.

[Hopkins92]

On the karma thing:

I said it earlier this year and I'll repeat it: It's a very weird and IMO unnecessary system. I've only ever given out positive notes (and just gave you one, PN), because if I've got an issue with someone, I bring it up in the thread... Or if I can't figure a way to be civil or cordial, I just move the "f" on.

This board is EXTREMELY convivial and civil compared to other message boards I've frequented. Anyone that spent any time on the BigSoccer boards in the late 90s/early aughts knows what a free for all can look like.

It probably is a very low-key way to keep people from trolling, but, again, I've only found a couple of times on here where it seemed like someone was motivated by pettiness or some other nefarious type of vibe and they either got fatigued by the lack of reaction or figured out pretty quickly that this group just isn't wired for internet tough-guy nonsense.

[blue_jays]

NPU just isn't playing Top 10 soccer right now. In fact, I don't even think that the Vikings are playing Top 25 soccer. Multiple breakaway opportunities came away empty last night, while Carthage, which only had three good looks in the entire game, converted on two of them. No snub intended of the Firebirds, who played with heart and discipline last night and rightly earned the draw, but that should've been a North Park win. Add that to desultory performances against Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin -- and the Vikings didn't even look all that impressive in their 4-0 pummeling of hapless Augustana, which I originally chalked up to disinterest -- and it feels like something got knocked out of the Vikings in that second-half debacle at Chicago that they haven't been able to get back. The only really good performance that I've seen out of the Vikings since then has been the win at Elmhurst.

Of course, as I say this I realize that I'm badmouthing an 11-1-2 team. But the NPU program has earned the right to be held in lofty regard, and the flip side of that is that NPU has to be judged by the standards of a program that has reached at least the second weekend of the D3 tourney in three of the last four seasons.

I was also curious about the NPU results lately, especially the IWU game and the Carthage tie. Also saw a straight red card on someone at the end of the game in the box score, which is unusual.

[Maine Soccer Fan]

On the karma thing:

I said it earlier this year and I'll repeat it: It's a very weird and IMO unnecessary system. I've only ever given out positive notes (and just gave you one, PN), because if I've got an issue with someone, I bring it up in the thread... Or if I can't figure a way to be civil or cordial, I just move the "f" on.

This board is EXTREMELY convivial and civil compared to other message boards I've frequented. Anyone that spent any time on the BigSoccer boards in the late 90s/early aughts knows what a free for all can look like.

Wow. You're taking me back and making me feel old. BigSoccer during that time period was a riot, in every sense. Who was the guy who was incredibly obnoxious and insightful who wrote the Ode to Brad Friedel after the S. Korea game? Bill something?

[Gregory Sager]

NPU just isn't playing Top 10 soccer right now. In fact, I don't even think that the Vikings are playing Top 25 soccer. Multiple breakaway opportunities came away empty last night, while Carthage, which only had three good looks in the entire game, converted on two of them. No snub intended of the Firebirds, who played with heart and discipline last night and rightly earned the draw, but that should've been a North Park win. Add that to desultory performances against Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin -- and the Vikings didn't even look all that impressive in their 4-0 pummeling of hapless Augustana, which I originally chalked up to disinterest -- and it feels like something got knocked out of the Vikings in that second-half debacle at Chicago that they haven't been able to get back. The only really good performance that I've seen out of the Vikings since then has been the win at Elmhurst.

Of course, as I say this I realize that I'm badmouthing an 11-1-2 team. But the NPU program has earned the right to be held in lofty regard, and the flip side of that is that NPU has to be judged by the standards of a program that has reached at least the second weekend of the D3 tourney in three of the last four seasons.

I was also curious about the NPU results lately, especially the IWU game and the Carthage tie. Also saw a straight red card on someone at the end of the game in the box score, which is unusual.

I hate that rule. As far as I know, soccer is the only NCAA sport in which referees have ongoing jurisdiction after the game is over until they leave the premises. Heck, the rules allow a ref to give you a red card in the stadium parking lot if he feels like it. I'm not kidding about that, either. In every other sport, once the game is over, jurisdiction ends.

The NPU player who was dealt the postgame crimson ducat as he was walking out of the stadium should've kept his mouth shut, but handing out that red card was nothing more than a pure ego trip on the part of a bad ref.

[Coach Jeff]

NPU just isn't playing Top 10 soccer right now. In fact, I don't even think that the Vikings are playing Top 25 soccer. Multiple breakaway opportunities came away empty last night, while Carthage, which only had three good looks in the entire game, converted on two of them. No snub intended of the Firebirds, who played with heart and discipline last night and rightly earned the draw, but that should've been a North Park win. Add that to desultory performances against Illinois Wesleyan and Millikin -- and the Vikings didn't even look all that impressive in their 4-0 pummeling of hapless Augustana, which I originally chalked up to disinterest -- and it feels like something got knocked out of the Vikings in that second-half debacle at Chicago that they haven't been able to get back. The only really good performance that I've seen out of the Vikings since then has been the win at Elmhurst.

Of course, as I say this I realize that I'm badmouthing an 11-1-2 team. But the NPU program has earned the right to be held in lofty regard, and the flip side of that is that NPU has to be judged by the standards of a program that has reached at least the second weekend of the D3 tourney in three of the last four seasons.

I was also curious about the NPU results lately, especially the IWU game and the Carthage tie. Also saw a straight red card on someone at the end of the game in the box score, which is unusual.

I hate that rule. As far as I know, soccer is the only NCAA sport in which referees have ongoing jurisdiction after the game is over until they leave the premises. Heck, the rules allow a ref to give you a red card in the stadium parking lot if he feels like it. I'm not kidding about that, either. In every other sport, once the game is over, jurisdiction ends.

The NPU player who was dealt the postgame crimson ducat as he was walking out of the stadium should've kept his mouth shut, but handing out that red card was nothing more than a pure ego trip on the part of a bad ref.

I agree the rule is crazy, however the player is at fault not only could he not keep his big mouth shut he ends up hurting his team in the long run.  He probably was not thinking about his action before he saw the red card.  I wonder if the coach had any idea that his player was not in the right mindset when they were gathered at the bench after the game before he left the stadium.  Let's not be to quick to excuse the player's action.  I have been to a lot of games over the years and fans and players lose their minds at officials.  To often it is the fans and players mouth that get the officials in the wrong state of mind.

[Flying Weasel]

On the karma thing:

I said it earlier this year and I'll repeat it: It's a very weird and IMO unnecessary system. I've only ever given out positive notes (and just gave you one, PN), because if I've got an issue with someone, I bring it up in the thread... Or if I can't figure a way to be civil or cordial, I just move the "f" on.

This board is EXTREMELY convivial and civil compared to other message boards I've frequented. Anyone that spent any time on the BigSoccer boards in the late 90s/early aughts knows what a free for all can look like.

Wow. You're taking me back and making me feel old. BigSoccer during that time period was a riot, in every sense. Who was the guy who was incredibly obnoxious and insightful who wrote the Ode to Brad Friedel after the S. Korea game? Bill something?

Bill Archer. 

Ohh, BigSoccer!  Those were the days!

[SimpleCoach]

On the karma thing:

I said it earlier this year and I'll repeat it: It's a very weird and IMO unnecessary system. I've only ever given out positive notes (and just gave you one, PN), because if I've got an issue with someone, I bring it up in the thread... Or if I can't figure a way to be civil or cordial, I just move the "f" on.

This board is EXTREMELY convivial and civil compared to other message boards I've frequented. Anyone that spent any time on the BigSoccer boards in the late 90s/early aughts knows what a free for all can look like.

Wow. You're taking me back and making me feel old. BigSoccer during that time period was a riot, in every sense. Who was the guy who was incredibly obnoxious and insightful who wrote the Ode to Brad Friedel after the S. Korea game? Bill something?

Bill Archer. 

Ohh, BigSoccer!  Those were the days!

Bill Archer was legendary in his own right.  Always reminded me of a saloon in some B rated western.  You kind find anything to everything about soccer in one place.  From fights, to love fests.  Is it still around?

SC.

[Maine Soccer Fan]

On the karma thing:

I said it earlier this year and I'll repeat it: It's a very weird and IMO unnecessary system. I've only ever given out positive notes (and just gave you one, PN), because if I've got an issue with someone, I bring it up in the thread... Or if I can't figure a way to be civil or cordial, I just move the "f" on.

This board is EXTREMELY convivial and civil compared to other message boards I've frequented. Anyone that spent any time on the BigSoccer boards in the late 90s/early aughts knows what a free for all can look like.

Wow. You're taking me back and making me feel old. BigSoccer during that time period was a riot, in every sense. Who was the guy who was incredibly obnoxious and insightful who wrote the Ode to Brad Friedel after the S. Korea game? Bill something?

Bill Archer. 

Ohh, BigSoccer!  Those were the days!

Bill Archer was legendary in his own right.  Always reminded me of a saloon in some B rated western.  You kind find anything to everything about soccer in one place.  From fights, to love fests.  Is it still around?

SC.

Bill Archer - the Don Rickles of American soccer.  Yeah, it's out there though I seldom visit. Aside from the entertainment, back then it was the one place to go for information about USMNT and American players abroad when there was very little media attention being given.

[Gregory Sager]

I agree the rule is crazy, however the player is at fault not only could he not keep his big mouth shut he ends up hurting his team in the long run.

I've already said that he was at fault. But the bigger problems are two things that no player and no coach can control: a) a seriously stupid rule that gives NCAA soccer refs jurisdiction after a game is over, even after said ref has left the pitch itself; and b) red cards dealt out by bad refs who are on a power trip.

He probably was not thinking about his action before he saw the red card.  I wonder if the coach had any idea that his player was not in the right mindset when they were gathered at the bench after the game before he left the stadium.

This didn't take place in the handshake line or while the Vikings were "gathered at the bench." It took place as the player in question was exiting the stadium via the Albany Avenue gate. Unfortunately, soccer refs typically park for a game at the Holmgren Athletic Complex on Albany Avenue, rather than using the parking lot like refs almost always do for other sports aside from baseball and softball (umpires are allowed to park inside the stadium itself, because the parking lot fills up during the day, and the bat-and-ball sports play far more day games than other sports). Rather than using the officials' locker room in the stadium fieldhouse like other sports' refs do to change out of their civvies, soccer refs tend to drive in for games at NPU already in uniform, park on Albany, and lounge around leaning on their cars and shooting the breeze with each other until it's time to go in the gate and start their jobs.

Let's not be to quick to excuse the player's action.

Huh? Who's excusing the player's action? Did you not read these words:

The NPU player who was dealt the postgame crimson ducat as he was walking out of the stadium should've kept his mouth shut

... the first time that I posted them?

I have been to a lot of games over the years and fans and players lose their minds at officials.  To often it is the fans and players mouth that get the officials in the wrong state of mind.

What got the official in "the wrong state of mind" in the first place was the fact that he called the game poorly, causing both teams -- players and coaches alike -- to yell at him throughout the contest. He took out his anger on a player who was thoughtless enough to try to get in one last word as he walked past the ref on his way out of the stadium, because a rule that shouldn't be in the book gave the ref license to avenge his injured pride.

[Hopkins92]

Just for the record, referees at all levels are given the authority to red card a coach or player well-after a game is over. Even before the game if "misconduct" is deemed red card worthy. And I've seen it happen multiple times. It's not unique to NCAA, even though it's probably unique WITHIN the NCAA.

Not wading into this specific situation, as I have zero insight, but it's a pretty well-known thing in soccer that you don't get to talk schnizzle to a referee anywhere near the pitch, regardless of the game clock.

Now, where things get murky is when the altercation takes place well away from the actual field. It's supposed to be something that occurs near the game, not really something that happens, say, in the parking lot or at the nearby gas station.

[Gregory Sager]

Just for the record, referees at all levels are given the authority to red card a coach or player well-after a game is over. Even before the game if "misconduct" is deemed red card worthy. And I've seen it happen multiple times. It's not unique to NCAA, even though it's probably unique WITHIN the NCAA.

Before the game is not an issue, since jurisdiction in other NCAA sports typically begins before a game. F'rinstance, in both men's and women's basketball jurisdiction begins twenty minutes prior to the scheduled start of the game. At that point, there must be at least one official on the floor. We've all heard stories of players getting technical fouls for hanging on the rim in the layup line; well, that's an example of prior jurisdiction. Similarly, jurisdiction in NCAA softball begins when the umpire first steps onto the field. In NCAA softball all bats must be presented to the umpire for inspection before the game; prior jurisdiction allows the umpire to disallow a bat if it doesn't meet specs (and to also toss a player or a coach if she complains about it).

But after a game? Men's and women's soccer are the only sports that maintain officials' jurisdiction once a game or match is finished and they've left the playing area. I don't care if other levels of soccer allow officials to red-card afterwards and off the pitch. It's a monumentally stupid rule that empowers martinets and egomaniacs in black shorts and -- this is key -- has absolutely nothing to do with administering the game itself or ensuring player safety, which are ostensibly the only two reasons why the official is present in the first place.

Not wading into this specific situation, as I have zero insight, but it's a pretty well-known thing in soccer that you don't get to talk schnizzle to a referee anywhere near the pitch, regardless of the game clock.

Yes, which is why I said that the player should've kept his mouth shut. I'm not sure if "Nice game, ref," spoken in a sarcastic tone counts as "schnizzle" -- I confess that my schnizzle fu is weak -- but discretion is the better part of valor when one is in the vicinity of someone who has the power to disqualify you from your next game and you're still on what the NCAA considers to be the premises.

Now, where things get murky is when the altercation takes place well away from the actual field. It's supposed to be something that occurs near the game, not really something that happens, say, in the parking lot or at the nearby gas station.

It's actually not murky at all. This is from the current NCAA soccer rulebook, under Rule 5:

5.4 Jurisdiction
5.4.1 An official's jurisdiction shall begin when they arrive at the site of the
competition and shall end when the official leaves the site of the competition.
The site of the competition is defined as the field, locker rooms, parking
areas and the surroundings generally associated with athletics facilities.

Parking lot? Check. Nearby gas station? Nope. If you want to say your farewell to the ref in a scornful manner, wait until he pulls up at the pump at the Shell a half-mile down the street.

[PaulNewman]

Quick Blitz Weekend Review

Tonight

6:00 -- Trinity (TX) @ St Thomas -- I think I forgot to mention in the video that St Thomas beat Trinity last year in the SCAC tournament final but unfortunately was in its final year before being NCAA tourney eligible.  Not sure what that rule is for, but whatever.  St Thomas committed the sin of getting most pollsters behind then, picked up a couple of blemishes, and the Celts kind of fell off the radar.  Here's a great chance for St Thomas to re-enter "the convo."  Meanwhile, Trinity is starting to look like "who we thought they'd be" (nod to Dennis Green).  If they get Meese back, watch out.

Saturday

12:00 -- Wesleyan @ Bowdoin -- Bowdoin is rolling....so maybe time for the Polar Bears to falter?  Wesleyan needs a result and preferably a win or what was their dream season may dissolve into dust.  A loss here and a quarterfinal loss in the NESCAC tourney might keep the Cardinals at home for the big dance.

1:00 -- WPI @ Emerson -- Massive game for Emerson.  The Lions need this one or a result next week @ Coast Guard to ensure a NEWMAC playoff spot which might be the first one in Emerson soccer history (only joining the NEWMAC in 2013 from the GNAC).  WPI MUST have this game or they may miss the NEWMAC playoffs entirely.  WPI has had a very mixed season but their resume include a win over Brandeis, draws with Skidmore and Middlebury, and a 1-0 loss to Amherst.

1:00 -- Cortland St and Brockport St -- Fortunes are fickle.  Just less than two weeks ago Brockport was unbeaten in the SUNYAC and seemed to be including towards a likely Poll C if they didn't win the AQ.  On paper the Golden Eagles are still in a good spot leading the SUNYAC even after a loss and a draw, but a loss to Cortland and then a quick exit in the SUNYAC tourney could leave Brockport on the outside looking in on selection day.  Meanwhile, Cortland is loaded for bear after dropping one to long-time rival Oneonta St.

1:30 -- Amherst @ Hamilton -- Hamilton had been a better road than home team up until the Continental's debacle in Brunswick.  Can a young Hamilton side handle that is rolling into Clinton?  Serpone has got to be a little frustrated although the Mammoths big picture are in decent shape, but expect Amherst to be even more Amherst-like than usual.

2:00 -- St Joseph's (ME) @ Brandeis -- Great opportunity for the Monks to stick a UAA pelt on their wall.  Will Brandeis show up and compete, or are the Judges already halfway to Cancun?

2:00 -- Baldwin-Wallace @ Otterbein -- B-W gets my first mention of the year.  The Yellow Jackets have had a tremendous for them but against mainly very unimpressive competition.  Otterbein needs to pick up some momentum as the Cardinals at 8-2-3 are not exactly where they expected to be.  In terms of likely regionally ranked teams Otterbein beat Denison, drew with Ohio Northern, and lost to CWRU and John Carroll.  They need to run the table and the last regular season game at Mt Union may be pivotal especially if the Purple Raiders end up regionally ranked in a couple of weeks.

2:30 -- Mary Washington @ Christopher Newport -- Tough one to call here.  Mary Wash seems to be surging at the right time so I'll go with the mild upset in Newport News.

3:00 -- OWU @ Denison -- The mentor versus the hot-shot pupil.  Very likely a duel for who gets home field for a repeat match in a NCAC semifinal.  Bianco is determined for Denison to show its quality in big matches against big opponents while the Battling Bishops seem to be pulling everything together at the right time.  This match also could significantly impact any Pool C chances for both.

3:00 -- SLU @ Skidmore -- When the Liberty League experts on this board can't figure these out I certainly am not going to do so.  I have no clue who is gonna win so I'll default to a draw.

3:00 -- Middlebury @ Tufts -- GAME OF THE DAY.  When you can't picture either team losing that's a good game...and unfortunately perhaps yet another draw.

4:30 -- Centre @ Sewanee -- Just because....it would so cool to see Centre go on a little run and make some noise in the SAA tournament.  Sewanee was cruising and having a historic season until dropping a pair of SAA tilts to Hendrix and Rhodes who jumped to the two top spots and have an important match against one another as well.

5:30 -- Pac Lutheran @ Whitman -- Can the Lutes avoid the same fate as Willamette who just lost to Whitman?  Not sure, but Whitman seems to play better when not at home in Walla Walla, and they're at home in Walla Walla.

7:00 -- KZoo @ Calvin -- This typically is a game one might mark as one of the only chances for a Calvin blemish...but not immediately after a Calvin blemish (loss). 

7:00 -- Misericordia @ Stevens -- I can't say that first name properly so I don't deserve a comment here.

8:00 -- Texas Lutheran @ Southwestern -- Southwestern is my Region X Emerson College...a program very possibly on the rise with some strong results and another school that is under the radar and has a lot to offer.  Tex Lutheran has had a bunch of "good draws" and tight losses.  This game may determine whether one of these gets a SCAC playoff spot.

8:30 -- Rhodes @ Hendrix -- See Centre @ Sewanee above.

8:30 -- Wheaton (Ill) @ North Park -- The Vikings will be very anxious to reassert dominance in the CCIW and to protect their hard-won national reputation.  Always hard to know which Wheaton team will show as their results are quite mixed, but as the cliche goes, toss out the record books for this kind of rivalry match.

Sunday

Wisconsin-Eau Claire @ Carleton -- The UWEC watch continues.  Carleton is having a middling season by their standards as the Knights are a frequent MIAC leader and NCAA team just last year, and they also beat St Olaf and drew with Colorado College.....the point being that a UWEC win here should count as a legit win.

[Hopkins92]

Just for the record, referees at all levels are given the authority to red card a coach or player well-after a game is over. Even before the game if "misconduct" is deemed red card worthy. And I've seen it happen multiple times. It's not unique to NCAA, even though it's probably unique WITHIN the NCAA.

Before the game is not an issue, since jurisdiction in other NCAA sports typically begins before a game. F'rinstance, in both men's and women's basketball jurisdiction begins twenty minutes prior to the scheduled start of the game. At that point, there must be at least one official on the floor. We've all heard stories of players getting technical fouls for hanging on the rim in the layup line; well, that's an example of prior jurisdiction. Similarly, jurisdiction in NCAA softball begins when the umpire first steps onto the field. In NCAA softball all bats must be presented to the umpire for inspection before the game; prior jurisdiction allows the umpire to disallow a bat if it doesn't meet specs (and to also toss a player or a coach if she complains about it).

But after a game? Men's and women's soccer are the only sports that maintain officials' jurisdiction once a game or match is finished and they've left the playing area. I don't care if other levels of soccer allow officials to red-card afterwards and off the pitch. It's a monumentally stupid rule that empowers martinets and egomaniacs in black shorts and -- this is key -- has absolutely nothing to do with administering the game itself or ensuring player safety, which are ostensibly the only two reasons why the official is present in the first place.

Not wading into this specific situation, as I have zero insight, but it's a pretty well-known thing in soccer that you don't get to talk schnizzle to a referee anywhere near the pitch, regardless of the game clock.

Yes, which is why I said that the player should've kept his mouth shut. I'm not sure if "Nice game, ref," spoken in a sarcastic tone counts as "schnizzle" -- I confess that my schnizzle fu is weak -- but discretion is the better part of valor when one is in the vicinity of someone who has the power to disqualify you from your next game and you're still on what the NCAA considers to be the premises.

Now, where things get murky is when the altercation takes place well away from the actual field. It's supposed to be something that occurs near the game, not really something that happens, say, in the parking lot or at the nearby gas station.

It's actually not murky at all. This is from the current NCAA soccer rulebook, under Rule 5:

5.4 Jurisdiction
5.4.1 An official's jurisdiction shall begin when they arrive at the site of the
competition and shall end when the official leaves the site of the competition.
The site of the competition is defined as the field, locker rooms, parking
areas and the surroundings generally associated with athletics facilities.

Parking lot? Check. Nearby gas station? Nope. If you want to say your farewell to the ref in a scornful manner, wait until he pulls up at the pump at the Shell a half-mile down the street.

Just to be crystal:

First off, I am not disagreeing with anything you posted.

The point I'm making is that any player or coach that's been around the game long enough is aware that you don't get a free pass to talk negatively to a ref before, during or after a game. (As you said, multiple times.) And if this guy (ref) was displaying Napoleonic complex-like behavior during the game, you can bet your bottom dollar he's going to maintain that posture until he parks it in his Lazy Boy Barcalounger with his tumbler of Chivas in his paw. While it's unique in the NCAA realm, it's very well-known in the soccer universe.

I'm not absolving this ref, at all, but we've all run into a guy/gal that you understand is either having a bad day, or just isn't really cut out for the job and over-compensates by throwing around cards and getting lippy.

I have a TON of respect for refs, but we all know some of them really should find another hobby.

[Coach Jeff]

Just to be crystal:

The point I'm making is that any player or coach that's been around the game long enough is aware that you don't get a free pass to talk negatively to a ref before, during or after a game. And if this guy was displaying Napoleonic complex-like behavior during the game, you can bet your bottom dollar he's going to maintain that posture until he parks it in his Lazy Boy Barcalounger with his tumbler of Chivas in his paw. While it's unique in the NCAA realm, it's very well-known in the soccer universe.

I'm not absolving this ref, but we've all run into a guy/gal that you understand is either having a bad day, or just isn't really cut out for the job and over-compensates by throwing around cards and getting lippy.

I have a TON of respect for refs, but we all know some of them really should find another hobby.
[/quote]

Totally agree with you Hopkins.  The players and coaches had over 90 minutes to see the type of Official they had for the game and there after.