2022 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Mid-Atlantic Fan]

Yeah, they're both well out of the top 25 according to RPI.  Including games through the 9th, St. Olaf is ranked 36th and Loras is ranked 72nd.  Another notable omission is Drew who RV but is currently ranked 8th in RPI.  I know they don't pass the eye test after some poor recent results but they still have strong numbers

Yes I think Drew RV is fair given their recent conference struggles, but overall they have an impressive winning percentage but lack those signature wins. Partly because they haven't faced many challenges and the few they have they've struggled with. Manhattanville is a solid win and Kean at the time looked like a great win but they have dropped off. Newark is a decent win as well and then you have the Catholic loss and ties with Moravian and Goucher that hurt. I think they are ranked where they should be but that's just me 

[Gregory Sager]

I wish that the NCAA would have left the OT rules alone.

This. I'm getting sick of seeing W-L-T records that look like telephone area codes. And, selfishly, it makes evaluation harder for me as a fan-poll voter.

[Gregory Sager]

https://d3soccer.com/top25/men/2022/week6

As we know the USC rankings aren't always as aligned with D3Soccer or Massey, but this latest poll for D3Soccer has a few head scratchers for me...but note that for the most part I think the poll is fair and reasonable until the final few RV spots. Who cares right? But it gives us something to discuss 

Loras RV? A 6-5 record including a 6-0 loss to Luther last week. Who is giving Loras 3 votes???

I know this is nitty gritty stuff at the end of the poll but shocked that anybody would give them votes. There are about 30 other teams you could and should replace them with.

I agree with that. Putting Loras #23 on your ballot is nothing short of bizarre. Somebody obviously stepped out of his time machine with his filled ballot in hand after an excursion to the year 2014.

St. Olaf is another one RV that could be questioned. 8-4 record and 2 losses to Chicago and NP which is nothing to be down about but then a loss to a decent Wartburg side and another loss that you should be down about against Carleton more recently. The only win that stands out is UW-EAU (which some are skeptical about). I don't understand how this team can RV over 20-30 other teams with less losses, similar blemishes, stronger SOS, better wins, etc. They were top 25 early on but really nothing impresses me on the resume this year. Not even to receive votes at this point.

I'm a lot more inclined to cut St. Olaf some slack. As you said, losses to Chicago and NPU shouldn't be held against the Oles, and Wartburg is 5-1-6, 1-0-3 in the ARC. And I'm not inclined to consider Carleton a major-penalty loss by the Oles, since the Carlies have a winning record and were a D3 tourney team last season, plus the fact that St. Olaf vs. Carleton is a crosstown rivalry makes me even less inclined to hold it against the Oles. But when you put them all together, it makes St. Olaf a four-loss team, and I think we're at least a week away from being able to justify the presence of a four-loss team on anybody's ballot. Maybe even two weeks away.

However, St. Olaf is at Gustavus Adolphus on Saturday, and if the Oles knock off the Gusties (after beating St. Mary's tonight, of course) I think that you can at least consider putting a 10-4, 7-1 Oles team that sits atop the MIAC table for the bottom of your ballot. For sure, if they then beat UW-Platteville and Concordia-Moorhead the week after, they'd belong somewhere in the 20s, because those four additional wins would make them a .750 winning percentage team.

[Ejay]

Posting here regarding a comment on another thread because it's applicable on the national level...

No OT - I love it.
I love that a good team has to prove they're good enough to score 1 lousy goal within 90 minutes.
I love that an inferior team can get a result for executing a prevent game plan to perfection.
I love that a 4-4 game ends in a draw because no one deserves to lose that game on a freak OT goal.
I love getting home 30 minutes earlier after the late night Wednesday games because I gotta get up for work really early on Thursday.

[Hopkins92]

I have a bunch of stuff swirling in my head on the OT discussion.

1) It's the first year of a rule change that really does have a significant shift in coaching tactics and player mentality. If we are still seeing "area code records"* 2 and 3 years from now, I'd think that's the time to really get stuck in on the idea that there should be a reversion to OT.

2) I don't want to get too wrapped up in this, because it tends to get people really in their feelings, but... This is how the rest of the world (with VERY few exceptions) approaches the sport. You play the full 90 and the result stands. You don't grab a refreshment and say "Now, let's REALLY try to score." That sense of urgency is there or it isn't.

Draws aren't seen as a problem to solve anywhere else but in the US. A draw on the road in a hostile environment, where you come in needing points to stay alive in the league, isn't seen as a "bad" result. A gazillion scenarios where a draw is just as good as a loss for a team struggling to stay up, or looking for a Euro slot etc etc and so on.

3) Now to a somewhat counter-point: College sports in general have the relative weirdness of playing a whole bunch of games in-season that kind of don't really matter, other in a somewhat nebulous "poll watching" scenario. IOW, every other league has a "table" with standings that only pull from that particular league. So those Win-Loss-Draws are within a zero sum, someone's getting points (on not) in every fixture. Whereas, Lynchburg drawing Messiah is cool and all, but there are zero "league points" allotted.

I know this is a very obvious point, but really adds a wrinkle to issue with draws in college soccer. Reducing the ability of teams to get a W is really muddying the waters when it comes to comparisons and rankings.

But, like I said, I think it's a little early to pull any conclusions. It's very early days.


* - That's pretty funny, GS.

[PaulNewman]

One thing I wish was more professional with D3 is information shared about injuries, suspensions, etc.  It's so frustrating to not know why 5-6 key players aren't playing and why 3-4 of those who are absolutely critical to a team's hopes for making a deep run aren't playing and whether there is any expecation that they will be back soon or are now out for the season.

[PaulNewman]

UW-Platteville just scored twice within a minute to go up 3-1 on Luther...around 75th min now.

[MessageBoardMessi]

Posting here regarding a comment on another thread because it's applicable on the national level...

No OT - I love it.
I love that a good team has to prove they're good enough to score 1 lousy goal within 90 minutes.
I love that an inferior team can get a result for executing a prevent game plan to perfection.
I love that a 4-4 game ends in a draw because no one deserves to lose that game on a freak OT goal.
I love getting home 30 minutes earlier after the late night Wednesday games because I gotta get up for work really early on Thursday.

Agree - get the job done.....and if you can't, and have a disproportionate number of ties at the end of the season - then your ranking should reflect it...

[northman]

Also...what I think has been underemphasized in this discussion...is the physical health benefit to the athletes of not having to play those extra OT minutes.  Those minutes take both a physical and a mental toll that adds up over the course of the season.  These are young student athletes who are required to balance a lot in the classroom, in their social lives, and on the field.

[oacalum]

Also...what I think has been underemphasized in this discussion...is the physical health benefit to the athletes of not having to play those extra OT minutes.  Those minutes take both a physical and a mental toll that adds up over the course of the season.  These are young student athletes who are required to balance a lot in the classroom, in their social lives, and on the field.

I posted somewhat recently stating the exact opposite. When I played 5 years ago, myself and a majority of my teammates would've much preferred games to go to overtime rather than ending tied after 90 minutes. An extra maximum of 20 minutes for maybe 5 overtime games per year (just a number that sounds reasonable year to year) is only an extra 100 minutes. Given the unlimited number of substitutions allowed, this number isn't quite that excessive and don't think it added any noticeable physical toll when I played.

What these overtime games did provide were some of my favorite memories of college soccer. I am still of the belief that a large majority of current players would prefer overtime. And isn't that what D3 sports is all about? Focusing on academics, but also competing at a high level and having a great time doing it.

[Hopkins92]

Those memories are now going to shift to scoring with less than 2 minutes or under 5 minutes or in the last 30 seconds... All of which have happened in the last week. And you're still going to have epic OT games once we get into the playoffs. EPIC.

[PaulNewman]

Those memories are now going to shift to scoring with less than 2 minutes or under 5 minutes or in the last 30 seconds... All of which have happened in the last week. And you're still going to have epic OT games once we get into the playoffs. EPIC.

Exactly.  I would argue that the rule change generally speaking has had the opposite effect predicted.  Instead of slowing the game down and teams trying to run out the clock in many (most?) instances we've seen frenetic and dramatic finishes with teams desperate to equalize or get the GW....and the list of games where the favored team has had to go into hyperdrive just to level in the last few minutes keeps growing and growing.

[oacalum]

 I guess I just think less ties during the regular season is better and golden goal overtimes provide the most joy as a player and now think it's a tad unfair to current players to be stripped of some of that joy. I have a younger brother currently playing, so I'm comparing my experience to his current experience.

[Hopkins92]

Not to be pedantic AT ALL, OAC, as I respect your opinion, but a lot of us are comparing our playing time in D3 not having OT for every game to the current system. It's all a prism (HT to PN) or your perspective on the issue.

What I remember is when you were in the playoffs and things got to OT, it was a truly remarkable and special moment. We played Swat to an epic stalemate that eventually led to PKs. I'll NEVER forget that game.

When OT is the capper for every regular season game, it can also be seen as watering down that "special moment."

Again, I respect your position, just saying there are lots and lots of ways to look at this. No right answer, IMO.

[Ejay]

And I remember losing in OT 4-1 and 5-1.  Enough already, just score and let us go home.