2022 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[PaulNewman]

Rare for a Monday but there is a nice North region "doubleheader" with arguably the top four teams in the North.

4:00 -- Luther @ GAC (Luther to put it kindly has been enigmatic, but with the possible exception of Calvin gave Chicago their biggest scare thus far.  GAC showed vulnerability last week by having to score at the death against Augsburg just to draw but rebounded with a big win over St Olaf.)

6:00 -- St Olaf @ UW-Platteville (Big game for regional rankings determinations down the road.)

[SierraFD3soccer]

I call bullcrap there is no meaningful amount of goalie coaches teaching their players to parry/box instead of catch... it's just not a thing. Every coach wants their keeper to catch.

What's probably actually happening is that lots of D3 goalies just aren't very good and are liable to give up bad rebounds because they don't have the technique and training to hold the ball, so they try to parry instead and probably get some pressure from head coaches to do that if they have given up bad rebounds trying to catch before.

Goalie is a bit unique in that being good at it requires a large number of hours of specialized training and most kids don't get that, even many one's that are solid high school and club players.

Agree.  GK Play is the difference maker as we get to tournament play.  No legitimate GK coach at a higher level is spending extra time on punches or parry - as the focus should be holds.  The teams that can recruit a GK that meets the eye test and has good hands a feet will have a distinct advantage in one and done postseason play.  GK play does not dazzle in many d3 games - but gets the job done.  Most fans have little exposure to what good vs great GK play or training is - and won't realize what they dont have  - or what could have been if they had a GK with better training and pedigree.....

And don't get me started on all the punts and long goal kicks we see in D3 play......play it short - leverage possession with a GK that can not only stop balls, but use his feet and head to build from the back.  Lots of rec league punters out there.  I can almost hear their moms yelling "great kick" as the orange slices are prepared for the post game snack.

As a parent of current starting D3 keeper, I've held back from this conversation re: punch v. catch. You all know that it is key (if not most important position) on the field. Mistakes are made and sometimes keepers lose games, but you have to look at the entire team before you blame a keeper for not catching and instead punching. Keepers get to make mistakes (soft goals) and they do at every level.

I've always said to my son so he can function is that you get to make at least one mistake a game.  If he does make the mistake, his team still should win. If he makes a second then it should be a tie. If your team is good, they should be able to score at least 2 goals. If the team can't do that then maybe it is a team issue and not a keepers who makes a mistake(s) a game.  Don't see many if any posts on lack of finishing/putting balls on frame in D3.  In fact, I often think (to include my son's team) that teams make keepers look really good with the incredibly weak shots I have seen at the D3 level.  Son also started at the D1 level so I can comment on that. If it gets to the keeper, it had to go through 10 other players before he even gets a chance to make a mistake.

As to playing out of the back, I agree.  My son has become good field player and cuts off many opportunities with his feet/head before it even gets to the 18.  Concerning distribution, he rarely if ever punts/long goal kicks in his club and college career.  He can punt/long goal kicks really well, but only does this rarely and wholly depends on whether his back are up to the pressure. He also has worked hard on hitting his midfield on his side of the field in the air to break presses.  FYI, coaches do tell keepers to punt/long goal kick so don't rush to blame keeper. The last thing that does not get discussed as keepers is communication. Organizing backs/midfielders is very important and keepers are in the best position.  If a keeper is shy, then he'll often be subjected to more shots. Fortunately, my son appears to very good at communication.

Finally, in my opinion, keepers also are often subjected much more physical abuse than field players. You don't see play acting when keeper goes down.  Fortunately, my son has not had any head issues while many of the keepers he trained with in the past have suffered concussions and have had to leave soccer behind. However, he has many, many bumps and bruisers that he has generally be able to play through.

[Kuiper]

I call bullcrap there is no meaningful amount of goalie coaches teaching their players to parry/box instead of catch... it's just not a thing. Every coach wants their keeper to catch.

What's probably actually happening is that lots of D3 goalies just aren't very good and are liable to give up bad rebounds because they don't have the technique and training to hold the ball, so they try to parry instead and probably get some pressure from head coaches to do that if they have given up bad rebounds trying to catch before.

Goalie is a bit unique in that being good at it requires a large number of hours of specialized training and most kids don't get that, even many one's that are solid high school and club players.

Agree.  GK Play is the difference maker as we get to tournament play.  No legitimate GK coach at a higher level is spending extra time on punches or parry - as the focus should be holds.  The teams that can recruit a GK that meets the eye test and has good hands a feet will have a distinct advantage in one and done postseason play.  GK play does not dazzle in many d3 games - but gets the job done.  Most fans have little exposure to what good vs great GK play or training is - and won't realize what they dont have  - or what could have been if they had a GK with better training and pedigree.....

And don't get me started on all the punts and long goal kicks we see in D3 play......play it short - leverage possession with a GK that can not only stop balls, but use his feet and head to build from the back.  Lots of rec league punters out there.  I can almost hear their moms yelling "great kick" as the orange slices are prepared for the post game snack.

As a parent of current starting D3 keeper, I've held back from this conversation re: punch v. catch. You all know that it is key (if not most important position) on the field. Mistakes are made and sometimes keepers lose games, but you have to look at the entire team before you blame a keeper for not catching and instead punching. Keepers get to make mistakes (soft goals) and they do at every level.

I've always said to my son so he can function is that you get to make at least one mistake a game.  If he does make the mistake, his team still should win. If he makes a second then it should be a tie. If your team is good, they should be able to score at least 2 goals. If the team can't do that then maybe it is a team issue and not a keepers who makes a mistake(s) a game.  Don't see many if any posts on lack of finishing/putting balls on frame in D3.  In fact, I often think (to include my son's team) that teams make keepers look really good with the incredibly weak shots I have seen at the D3 level.  Son also started at the D1 level so I can comment on that. If it gets to the keeper, it had to go through 10 other players before he even gets a chance to make a mistake.

As to playing out of the back, I agree.  My son has become good field player and cuts off many opportunities with his feet/head before it even gets to the 18.  Concerning distribution, he rarely if ever punts/long goal kicks in his club and college career.  He can punt/long goal kicks really well, but only does this rarely and wholly depends on whether his back are up to the pressure. He also has worked hard on hitting his midfield on his side of the field in the air to break presses.  FYI, coaches do tell keepers to punt/long goal kick so don't rush to blame keeper. The last thing that does not get discussed as keepers is communication. Organizing backs/midfielders is very important and keepers are in the best position.  If a keeper is shy, then he'll often be subjected to more shots. Fortunately, my son appears to very good at communication.

Finally, in my opinion, keepers also are often subjected much more physical abuse than field players. You don't see play acting when keeper goes down.  Fortunately, my son has not had any head issues while many of the keepers he trained with in the past have suffered concussions and have had to leave soccer behind. However, he has many, many bumps and bruisers that he has generally be able to play through.

Totally agree with the general points made about goalkeeping in this post.  It's absolutely true that GKs are held to an overly high standard and mistakes are magnified in a way that ones higher up the field get obscured.  Rather than telling keepers that you get 1-2 mistakes or something like that, best advice I've heard on how to dial down that pressure is from a relatively famous GK coach in SoCal who told his charges that they get to count saves like strikers count goals.  If you make a relatively easy save on an "incredibly weak shot," you get to count that as a goal just like a striker counts an easy tap-in as a goal.  If you make an incredible top-hand save, it's like you made a bicycle kick or straight volley goal from outside the box.  His point was not that you could ignore mistakes, but start by celebrating the saves ("goals") you make, especially so you can have confidence during the game that you are still a good player, and then work on what you need to do better on the training grounds.  A little positivity works wonders for a player's mentality.

The reality, though, is that if you watch some goalkeepers enough, you realize that they simply can't catch, haven't been taught to do so from an early enough age to make it an ingrained habit, and/or haven't been corrected by coaches who don't know the difference.  So, most of the criticism of goalkeepers who block or parry when they could have caught the ball is less criticism of that particular GK and more criticism from some of us old-timers who are frustrated at the way current goalkeeper coaching has moved away from an emphasis on catching.  As I've written before, some of that is from the added responsibilities of the modern GK (many of us played when the GK could pick up a back pass with his hands, for instance), some of it is from changes in the ball, gloves etc, and some of it is from coaching pressures to win.  Contrary to one poster's assertion, I know for a fact that many European GK coaches actually correct youth GKs who try to catch a ball in some drills because they aren't focused on catching; they're focused on tipping, parrying etc.  I've seen multiple French GK coaches in the US run sessions over a full year or two and they are all aimed at the impossible diving tip, or the deflection drill, with very little emphasis on the "meat and potatoes" work of catching (a phrase former MLS GK Jon Busch uses to describe some of his training sessions).  If a GK catches the ball, some of these European GK coaches do the drill again because the service should be such that they can't catch the ball.  At training sessions at an Atletico Madrid youth academy earlier this year, I saw the coaches actually tell kids who caught a ball - not just tried to and fumbled it - to parry instead because although they caught it this time, it's too risky in the game.  And they were speaking English because this was part of a program for US goalkeepers selected to train for a week at Atleti's residence academy.  I get what they were trying to say.  Just like playing out of the back doesn't mean you never kick the ball long (a part of that strategy coaches and players often forget), sometimes there are too many bodies flying around for a catch.  It's hard to replicate that traffic in training, though, especially when GKs are acting as stand-ins for strikers, so the Atleti coaches were trying to simulate it.  And, of course, the point of the "catch the damn ball" refrain is that you go for a catch with two hands first and then, if you see you can't, you can always parry or reach one arm farther to punch or tip.  Nevertheless, when that is the focus of GK coaching, rather than the "extra," it's easy to see why a lot of GKs don't place as much priority on the catch is a first option.

[Hopkins92]

So, most of the criticism of goalkeepers who block or parry when they could have caught the ball is less criticism of that particular GK and more criticism from some of us old-timers who are frustrated at the way current goalkeeper coaching has moved away from an emphasis on catching.  As I've written before, some of that is from the added responsibilities of the modern GK (many of us played when the GK could pick up a back pass with his hands, for instance), some of it is from changes in the ball, gloves etc, and some of it is from coaching pressures to win.  Contrary to one poster's assertion, I know for a fact that many European GK coaches actually correct youth GKs who try to catch a ball in some drills because they aren't focused on catching; they're focused on tipping, parrying etc.  I've seen multiple French GK coaches in the US run sessions over a full year or two and they are all aimed at the impossible diving tip, or the deflection drill, with very little emphasis on the "meat and potatoes" work of catching (a phrase former MLS GK Jon Busch uses to describe some of his training sessions).  If a GK catches the ball, some of these European GK coaches do the drill again because the service should be such that they can't catch the ball.  At training sessions at an Atletico Madrid youth academy earlier this year, I saw the coaches actually tell kids who caught a ball - not just tried to and fumbled it - to parry instead because although they caught it this time, it's too risky in the game.  And they were speaking English because this was part of a program for US goalkeepers selected to train for a week at Atleti's residence academy.  I get what they were trying to say.  Just like playing out of the back doesn't mean you never kick the ball long (a part of that strategy coaches and players often forget), sometimes there are too many bodies flying around for a catch.  It's hard to replicate that traffic in training, though, especially when GKs are acting as stand-ins for strikers, so the Atleti coaches were trying to simulate it.  And, of course, the point of the "catch the damn ball" refrain is that you go for a catch with two hands first and then, if you see you can't, you can always parry or reach one arm farther to punch or tip.  Nevertheless, when that is the focus of GK coaching, rather than the "extra," it's easy to see why a lot of GKs don't place as much priority on the catch is a first option.

Thanks for this... I have also gone out of my way to praise a goalie when they deserve it. Most notably Eastern's freshman from last year, and a few of the NESCAC playoff games I watched brought praise.

And also for the information on GK training. I don't have any specific recent camp or coaching interaction, but it's just SO WIDESPREAD that I find it difficult to believe there hasn't been a sea change in how GK's are being trained.

[hiyasoccer]

Okay yeah I knew I wasn't arguing with myself. 

Kuiper that is useful info on the data/evidence you have for a change in goalkeeper coach philosophy, and it is more up to date than my personal experience (I graduated 5 years ago). Thank you for sharing.

That said, I am not overly convinced, no offense to you intended - I am just going to be somewhat slow to update my priors here because I have a fair amount of anecdotal evidence the other way. Also those goalie coaches sound like potentially incompetent outliers, in a year of goalie training you should spend no more than say 4 sessions at a maximum specifically on extension diving, it is just a low ROI technique to train.

Maybe I am off base here because I am just pre filtering in my head to talk about competent/reasonable goalie coaches, and possibly the proportion of those has fallen as a percent of the population (or perhaps the world disagrees with me on what competent goalie coaching is).

A confounding factor a couple other posters mention is the quality of ball striking which is interesting. In D3 anecdotally I don't think there are many players that can truly strike a ball with pace, accuracy, and movement. Honestly a bit annoying to me because shot stopping was one of my strengths. In academy before college though there were a decent number of players who could, and catching a ball hit with real pace and movement is a significantly bigger challenger (you will see pro keepers parry balls hit mostly right at them because of the pace and knuckle). I wonder if Euro keepers train that more because there is probably an even higher proportion of good ball strikers there? I'm speculating here.

I do have a funny anecdote on euro goalkeeper coaches though. One of my coaches in high school was a Serbian guy in grad school nearby playing at the University. According to him (and I haven't discounted the possibility he was messing with us), his goalie coach would tie his hands together during training to force him to collapse-dive with two hands to be able to catch the ball. Threatened to do that to us frequently when we would dive low with one hand.

Also, general apologies for the harsh wording in my initial post on the matter. I generally try to hold myself to a higher bar of engagement, I'll do my best to not be such a butt in the future.

[4samuy]

Something really intrigues me about St Olaf. All of their losses have been on the road, which made me second guess them, even though 3 of their losses have been to really good teams on the road (north park, Chicago and Gustavus Adolphus.)tonight they put the hammer to UW Platteville on the road.  IMO they may take the pool A out of the MIAC and would be a team that I would not want to face come tournament time. They're fast, quick, organized and can put the ball in the back of the net.  They were impressive tonight.

[PauldingLightUP]

Pre Championships Manual forgot UW-Whitewater men for Appendix B Men's Sponsorship.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/soccer/d3/common/2022-23D3XSO_PreChamps.pdf

[MessageBoardMessi]

So, most of the criticism of goalkeepers who block or parry when they could have caught the ball is less criticism of that particular GK and more criticism from some of us old-timers who are frustrated at the way current goalkeeper coaching has moved away from an emphasis on catching.  As I've written before, some of that is from the added responsibilities of the modern GK (many of us played when the GK could pick up a back pass with his hands, for instance), some of it is from changes in the ball, gloves etc, and some of it is from coaching pressures to win.  Contrary to one poster's assertion, I know for a fact that many European GK coaches actually correct youth GKs who try to catch a ball in some drills because they aren't focused on catching; they're focused on tipping, parrying etc.  I've seen multiple French GK coaches in the US run sessions over a full year or two and they are all aimed at the impossible diving tip, or the deflection drill, with very little emphasis on the "meat and potatoes" work of catching (a phrase former MLS GK Jon Busch uses to describe some of his training sessions).  If a GK catches the ball, some of these European GK coaches do the drill again because the service should be such that they can't catch the ball.  At training sessions at an Atletico Madrid youth academy earlier this year, I saw the coaches actually tell kids who caught a ball - not just tried to and fumbled it - to parry instead because although they caught it this time, it's too risky in the game.  And they were speaking English because this was part of a program for US goalkeepers selected to train for a week at Atleti's residence academy.  I get what they were trying to say.  Just like playing out of the back doesn't mean you never kick the ball long (a part of that strategy coaches and players often forget), sometimes there are too many bodies flying around for a catch.  It's hard to replicate that traffic in training, though, especially when GKs are acting as stand-ins for strikers, so the Atleti coaches were trying to simulate it.  And, of course, the point of the "catch the damn ball" refrain is that you go for a catch with two hands first and then, if you see you can't, you can always parry or reach one arm farther to punch or tip.  Nevertheless, when that is the focus of GK coaching, rather than the "extra," it's easy to see why a lot of GKs don't place as much priority on the catch is a first option.

Thanks for this... I have also gone out of my way to praise a goalie when they deserve it. Most notably Eastern's freshman from last year, and a few of the NESCAC playoff games I watched brought praise.

And also for the information on GK training. I don't have any specific recent camp or coaching interaction, but it's just SO WIDESPREAD that I find it difficult to believe there hasn't been a sea change in how GK's are being trained.

GKs are absolutely getting trained on how to punch and parry - but the priority and desire is a hold.  IF you can hold it, hold  - as no one wants a ball back in play, or a corner kick opportunity created.  The great keepers have to make that decision in a split second, and then apply the skill (Punch, parry) to place the ball in the second best spot  - the first being in their hands.   I truly believe that to win a national championship, to even go deep in the tournament, a team must have a plus keeper.  They will be the difference.  And a plus keeper is not determined by shot stopping.....at the collegiate level  - every one of them is a capable shot stopper.  The plus keepers are evident by the way the move their feet, use their feet,  get in position, handle crosses, dominate the 6 yard box, and I would argue  - communicate and direct the back line (which I hear and see so infrequently in the D3 game).  And be warned, I don't think most teams need a plus keeper to be successful in conference - and in many regards, may think they have one........but when the talent pool and team strength increases at tournament time - the  big moments will as well.  For the discerning eye  - they see the saves a plus GK should/could of made even when the rest of the crowd says "Nothing he could have done about that".   A GK may live a whole season to make one save, in one moment  - that is the difference between moving on or not.....

[camosfan]

The biggest weakness I see with keepers here is ball distribution, they are all very good, especially in the air but lack the ability to turn the save into offensive pressure on their opponent.

[Maine Soccer Fan]

The biggest weakness I see with keepers here is ball distribution, they are all very good, especially in the air but lack the ability to turn the save into offensive pressure on their opponent.

Like maybe a certain Allison last weekend? Talk about the difference between excellent and world class...

[camosfan]

His counterpart in that game is probably the best current keeper at that, your view?

[Maine Soccer Fan]

His counterpart in that game is probably the best current keeper at that, your view?

Yeah, Ederson has the best foot skills of any keeper I know off, particularly off the floor. I don't know that he's the best decision-maker out there but he can strike and place a ball exquisitely.

Just to jump into the GK discussion, I have two sons that play/ed keeper in collegiate soccer. I actually think the most important trait in a keeper is an intangible. Does he instill confidence and trust in the defense? Of course, that assumes so many of the skills mentioned above as well as good decision making. A defense that trusts its GK doesn't overthink, doesn't overcompensate, doesn't react impulsively. They just play and know what to expect (and not expect) from their GK.

[PaulNewman]

The NVU derby resumed after a two year hiatus with NVU-Johnson winning 3-1 over NVU-Lyndon to retain possession of the highly coveted Green Mountain Maple Syrup Golden Bucket.  NVU-Lyndon has not held the Bucket since a 7-3 win in 2016.

[PaulNewman]

Wisc-Eau Claire moves to 15-2...solid win over St John's who is usually a mid-tier or higher MIAC.  UWEC lost a little steam with the two losses but top 25 and even a NCAA bid aren't necessary to appreciate such a great year only two years into the program.

Similarly, Emerson (yes, Emerson) is now 9-5-1.  Just making the NEWMAC playoffs would be huge for that program.

I forgot to note that Centre has won two in a row.  All SAA teams play in their tournament, so who knows.  There's certainly no clear powerhouse that Centre coudn't beat on the day.

Correction...Emerson is 9-1-5.

[MessageBoardMessi]

The biggest weakness I see with keepers here is ball distribution, they are all very good, especially in the air but lack the ability to turn the save into offensive pressure on their opponent.

I agree with the ball distribution.....and while one could make an argument about ability in the air - the biggest part of that is reading the play, seeing the players on the field, and discerning when to engage a ball/play.  A plus GK is brave.  A plus GK knows when to hold his line, and when to come off of it.  A plus goal keeper doesn't let a ball bounce in the box.  A plus goal keeper is strong enough to battle through the mix and will go through players to make sure he has that ball (dominating the 6 yard box).  While I would agree that all can be good in the air - as in they have the ability to jump and catch - its all the aforementioned things that will establish position and dominance.....a plus keeper will change the other teams attack - their ability will make them rethink crosses and corner kicks that place the ball anywhere near the 6.   I see too much hesitation.  I see too many half hearted punches that people cheer for.....if you come off your line show me you can get it.....