2022 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[PaulNewman]

What a wonderful villain/heartbreaker UMass-Boston is...

2016 vs very high seed Haverford AT Haverford the Beacons have at least two (and maybe three) men sent off in 2nd half with a ton of time left, and one of the red card incidents iirc included a question of whether there would be a criminal charge.  UMass-Boston somehow, somehow held on to get to PKs for over 40 minutes and knocked the Fords out of the tournament.  Totally changed the venue for the sectional which incredibly conveniently fell to Tufts (and the rest is history).  Tufts not only got UMass-Boston at home instead of going to PA, but also got a depleted UMass-Boston with at least two starters missing including their star striker.  Not saying Tufts wouldn't have beaten Haverford at Haverford but the latter was very, very good.

Now in 2022, the Beacons get to PKs again on the home field of W CT and probably knock out a 20-0-2 from the tournament.

OK, I couldn't resist looking it up...

Haverford led 1-0 on a 1st half Will Corkery goal.  UMass gets first red card at 67:47. Haverford MISSES A PK to go up 2-0 at 74:05.  With four minutes left UMass superstud Ocane Williamson scores to level after UMass has been down a man for almost 20 minutes.  Then at 88:37 Williamson gets the second red.  So UMass has to survive two OTs playing 9 v 11.  They do and win PKs 4-2. 

Shots 31-14 in favor of Haverford.  Fouls also in favor of the Fords by a stunning count of 31 to 25 (nearly 60 fouls which almost makes Amherst look timid).

[PaulNewman]

Not sure the scheduling criticism with W CT is totally fair.  First, doesn't scheduling usually happen well before you know you're gonna have 20-0-2 season?  Secondly, they did play Vassar and Drew, as well as a NJAC and a NESCAC (albeit Ramapo and Trinity).

[SierraFD3soccer]

I'll leave the guesses about Pool C to people more knowledgeable than me, but I will say that in D3, I think it's ridiculous that a team that goes undefeated doesn't make the tournament. Especially a team with a regionally ranked win and an SoS over .500. Being eliminated from playing for the National title, without ever losing a game, is ridiculous. Especially in favor of teams with blemishes in half the games they played, who couldn't even make their own conference tournament, who finished the season 0-4-3. Hamilton's last win was over a month ago.

The NESCAC is brutal. I'm sure Hamilton is a very good team. I'm happy to see the program return to relevance. But deserve a bid to the NCAA tournament? Not with that resume.

And if you really want to get fiesty about it, take the common opponent. Hamilton beat Trinity (CT) 2-1, Western Conn 3-1.

The Region I committee was playing a game, assuming Western CT would get the AQ and they could try and get another NESCAC to the table with a slightly higher Regional Ranking. They need to fix that ranking and give Western CT the shot they earned. Western CT going 1-0-1 this week is a better week than Hamilton has had in a month. That's plenty of justification to move them up.

Those are excellent points.  The West Conn AD should take some criticism for such a poor out of conference schedule when there are tons of good teams in the area.

I think it's the coach, through the AD, who lines up out of conference games.

FYI, its CT state college fellow school, Eastern CT, tried that this year and last as they scheduled Messiah and F&M last year in the beginning of the season. E. CT this year went to Averett and Randy Mac to play two games in the beginning of the season as well.  Unfortunately with mixed results, two ties this year and two loses last year.  However, at least they tried (plus spent some money traveling).  Also Eastern CT ended up in the NCAAs last year losing to Christ. Newport in the first round. This year they lost in the semis in OT to UMASS Boston which later beat Western CT. 

[Maine Soccer Fan]

It's also important to remember, the other school has to want to play you. Perennially ranked teams get to be very choosy about who they play out of conference. Playing you has to fit their purposes.

[coach analytics]

It's also important to remember, the other school has to want to play you. Perennially ranked teams get to be very choosy about who they play out of conference. Playing you has to fit their purposes.

Very true - but the most valuable teams to play out of conference are those who have a very good record in a very weak conference.  As PN says, its hard to predict this in advance but since they are such an attractive counterpart I would assume that they would have a lot of dance partners.

[SierraFD3soccer]

It's also important to remember, the other school has to want to play you. Perennially ranked teams get to be very choosy about who they play out of conference. Playing you has to fit their purposes.

True and they generally do a home-home cycle so it can be bit of a crap shoot scheduling several years out.

[Hopkins92]

What a wonderful villain/heartbreaker UMass-Boston is...

2016 vs very high seed Haverford AT Haverford the Beacons have at least two (and maybe three) men sent off in 2nd half with a ton of time left, and one of the red card incidents iirc included a question of whether there would be a criminal charge.  UMass-Boston somehow, somehow held on to get to PKs for over 40 minutes and knocked the Fords out of the tournament.  Totally changed the venue for the sectional which incredibly conveniently fell to Tufts (and the rest is history).  Tufts not only got UMass-Boston at home instead of going to PA, but also got a depleted UMass-Boston with at least two starters missing including their star striker.  Not saying Tufts wouldn't have beaten Haverford at Haverford but the latter was very, very good.

Now in 2022, the Beacons get to PKs again on the home field of W CT and probably knock out a 20-0-2 from the tournament.

I actually watched most of that Haverford game and it was pretty brutal.

[Bucket]

Bucket, in all seriousness, did you really scan that list and the only thing you noticed was Middlebury missing?   Didn't notice North Park, Kenyon, Tufts, Case Western, NYU, etc missing OR wonder what Baruch, Eastern Naz, LaGrange, St John Fisher, Grove City, and Framingham St were doing in a list of Pool C candidates?

Yeah, pretty much. Admittedly, I really only have one lens when viewing such things. Maybe two if I want to include my alma mater, W&L. (And I do have strong non-playing soccer ties to the Generals. My best friends from school all played for Rolf Piranian, and to this day I'm on a text string with six of them; they are quite tired of my constant chirping about the Panthers.) 

[Maine Soccer Fan]

What a wonderful villain/heartbreaker UMass-Boston is...

2016 vs very high seed Haverford AT Haverford the Beacons have at least two (and maybe three) men sent off in 2nd half with a ton of time left, and one of the red card incidents iirc included a question of whether there would be a criminal charge.  UMass-Boston somehow, somehow held on to get to PKs for over 40 minutes and knocked the Fords out of the tournament.  Totally changed the venue for the sectional which incredibly conveniently fell to Tufts (and the rest is history).  Tufts not only got UMass-Boston at home instead of going to PA, but also got a depleted UMass-Boston with at least two starters missing including their star striker.  Not saying Tufts wouldn't have beaten Haverford at Haverford but the latter was very, very good.

Now in 2022, the Beacons get to PKs again on the home field of W CT and probably knock out a 20-0-2 from the tournament.

I actually watched most of that Haverford game and it was pretty brutal.

I think the YouTube "highlights" of that game got a ton of views...

[PaulNewman]

It's also important to remember, the other school has to want to play you. Perennially ranked teams get to be very choosy about who they play out of conference. Playing you has to fit their purposes.

I was thinking the same thing.  Although even taking a loss W CT's record for Vassar is the SoS gift that keeps on giving.

[SierraFD3soccer]

It's also important to remember, the other school has to want to play you. Perennially ranked teams get to be very choosy about who they play out of conference. Playing you has to fit their purposes.

True and they generally do a home-home cycle so it can be bit of a crap shoot scheduling several years out.

FYI - W&L is an excellent example of how it worked out for them when it was willing to travel.  When Singleton took over, he purposely scheduled difficult opponents away from VA like F&M and Rowan as well as OWU, Wooster, SUNY Oneonta.  Have to have an AD who is willing to spend the money though.  Ultimately, you all are talking, in part, about W&L because of it scheduling.

[paclassic89]

FW, curious to hear your thought process on CMU...

My question (or one of them) is whether the cmte will go that deep in Region VII...

That said, I would expect them to get to the table given who will be in front of them and taken, and I suppose by that time CMU's winning pct and SoS may stand out better and just having one ranked win won't keep them out because by that time few teams left on the board will have more than one ranked win or if they have two will fall very short compared to CMU on the other two measures.

There may be some hidden bias coming through based on a notion that CWRU and CMU were playing a play-in game on Saturday.

Lynchburg is tough...could definitely see them missing out again which would be brutal to have that kind of resume and be left off two years in a row.

On Western CT, if the cmte stares long enough at them, I could see sentiment to push them ahead of Hamilton.  Western CT, via a win and a draw, DID add a bit to their total record, while Hamilton of course was idle.  I don't think there is a high likelihood of this happening, but I think there is at least some daylight that the cmte could make that move if really wanted to.  As I noted elsewhere, Western CT might had have a very good chance if they were in Region II instead of I.

And I agree that Wartburg looks very, very similar to a few others so would not be surprised by them getting a bid although I wonder when the last time was that Region IX (old NORTH) got 3 Pool Cs.  Btw, for whatever reason, Wartburg didn't make paclassic's RPI list, so I don't know if that has not any relevance in terms of what that taps for that the cmte might actually consider.

Wartburg already had a fairly low RPI for Regional Rankings 3 and they dropped further for the final rankings.  They are ranked 75th by RPI (.5640)  for context

[paclassic89]

Also, SimpleCoach interview suggestion.  A D3 committee member who can explain the thinking behind the rankings/at large selection process 

[Kuiper]

My understanding is that one of DIII's philosophies is to emphasize regional competition, which is better for reduced costs (thus increasing ability to field lots of sports and increase access) and for placing the emphasis on the student part of athlete by reducing missed classes. 

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2013/11/14/division-iii-philosophy-statement.aspx

"Give primary emphasis to regional in-season competition and conference championships"

Given that, if you are going to have an NCAA tournament (which is arguably a deviation from the philosophy because it creates perverse incentives like the the one that led to the creation of the Coast-to-Coast conference or induced teams like W&L, Redlands, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and many others to start scheduling expensive and time-consuming trips north, east, and sometimes west), then it makes sense to both prioritize regional strength through the regional rankings and to think about Pool C rankings with a regional lens.  So, that's why SoS isn't the end all be all.  If Pac Lutheran gets in, for example, over a team with a higher SoS, it will be an acknowledgment that it would send a bad message to western schools that they can only be in DIII if they can afford to travel far.  Similarly, for teams in high density, high quality, areas, it sends the message that you need to find high quality nearby teams each year or you need to win in-conference because both can be done consistent with D3 philosophy.  Not a perfect system, of course, but if the D3 emphasis is on conference tournaments and regional play over NCAA tournaments, then schools know that's what they signed up for by classifying as D3.

[d4_Pace]

Paul Newman, the UMass Boston story has more to it as they had a third starter suspended retroactively for the Tufts game for an off the ball incident that wasn't seen during the game.