Pool C 2022

[Ralph Turner]

I really like the schedule and the efforts to have great games that UWW and SJU, UMHB and Berry have put into this.

[Etchglow]

I really like the schedule and the efforts to have great games that UWW and SJU, UMHB and Berry have put into this.

Absolutely.  Even though my team came out on the short side of the stick Saturday, that was a November/December quality game played in Week 2.

[Cowboy2]

Everyone's making valid points. It's hard to put one region against the other, without bias, and who played who and who beat who. Ultimately you win your conference and your in. With all the high profile OOC games this year, it was inevitable this would happen. Now since this is a Pool C topic of discussion we can continue to play the what if game.

It's almost a a given that there may be an 8-2 team from the LL, ASC, WIAC, or SAA that will come up when deciding who goes in or who stays. Another week or two should clear things up a bit, but it's a long season and you never know with injuries and a dark horse team coming on strong later in the year. Since we have seen teams beat and lose to one another already, how would the OOC SOS come to play when they start to cancel each other out? I know anything can happen but how would the selection committee treat a 8-2 UWRF vs an 8-2 UMHB vs 8-2 Berry. We can use poll rankings but NCAA uses the regional. Say RF only loses to WW and STJ. Or WW loses to RF and STJ. Or UMHB has two losses to WW and possibly HSU. Berry plays a tight game to UWW and possibly loses to TU.

Of course these games haven't happened, but say it plays out that way, who gets selected? Maybe BSC finishes strong at 8-2, would they be in the conversation losing two  tight games to HC and TU? The SAA has won head to head battles with some of the ASC team in early OOC play. Would the SA send two and ASC only send one?  Would an IC 8-2 team leap frog all of them? Does Bethel get their QB back and win their regular season showdown against STJ but then lose the conf championship to STJ and sneak back in? Would an 8-2 Wheaton team be deserving if they play another close one vs NCC.

The WIAC teams will beat up on each other as will the ASC and SAA. I think there's 5-6 Wisconsin teams receiving votes right now  . In the ASC you have to two juggernauts that will battle it out. Could Sul Ross play spoiler? The played a tight game against D2 powerhouse A&M kingsville last week. They had a lot of talented players on a young team vs Trinity in week one. Then The SAA will have Berry,BSC, Centre, Trinity battling each other. Would an 8-2 SAA runner up that lost to the presumed WIAC and SAA favorite beat out a possible 8-2 ASC team?

Biggest question.... do two or more 8-2 teams make it this season due to OCC play or will regional ranking over rule them.

[wally_wabash]

Biggest question.... do two or more 8-2 teams make it this season due to OCC play or will regional ranking over rule them.

The regional rankings determine the order in which teams may be considered for selection- so yes, the regional rankings rule.  But win% is just one criteria.  SOS and results vs. RRO are going to play (maybe presumptive of me...should play is maybe a better way to say this) a role in how the rankings shake out.

Currently, I think UMHB and UWW would be favored to run the table (yes, I know the WIAC is an absolute meat grinder).  8-2 for either of them would be a surprise.  Muhlenberg and Wheaton are more likely to see 8-2 and be in this scenario.  I don't think Muhlenberg's 49 point loss is helpful if we get into a scenario where Muhlenberg and Wheaton (OT loss to Trinity, particularly if Trinity can run the table and be #1 in Region 3) are in play for one of the last spots.  That's advantage Wheaton all day - in my view.  I'm not on the committee. 

[Ralph Turner]

+1! Wally.

It sure is fun having Pool C talk after the 2nd week of the season.
it builds some drama, as if we needed more drama.

[smedindy]

This really emphasizes that you need to win your league, and barring that, play top drawer competition even if you get two losses. I'd have to say that they'd select an 8-2 team with a great non-conference schedule than a 9-1 team that played their region's weaker teams.

But the committee can and will surprise us.

[IC798891]

So, I feel like maybe I'm misstated my point here.

I'm not being critical of UMHB or UWW or SJU.

My original point was actually in favor of not penalizing those power island teams for what they've done. That's why I was wondering if we're going too far doing what the first posts in this tread were doing — immediately dismissing them from Pool C contention because they have two losses.

As for my comment on it not being part of the D3 ethos, I'm not sitting there shaming them for it and apologize if that's how it came across. It is simply acknowledging that because they are doing something that's, by design, not the norm in D3, we need to be careful what division-wide trends we let the results of those games influence.


I was in no way trying to imply those schools were doing anything wrong, and apologize if that was unclear

[IC798891]

If the power programs consolidating their positions by playing each other in the OOC portion of they year is troubling to the other 98% of the division, there's an easy solution.  If you're one of first, say 50 schools, that Jesse Burleson or Kevin Bullis or Larry Harmon calls to play a game, say yes.

I think this is a pretty silly response Wally. My issue is not that these games shouldn't be getting played because it's not fair because it makes those good teams get even better.

My issue is that, aside from simply not wanting to lose by 50 points (which yes, is a big part of it), maybe D3 teams in the NE/East don't want to go to Texas, or Wisconsin, or Oregon because most teams don't have the resources to ship an entire football team across the country for one OOC game.

[wally_wabash]

If the power programs consolidating their positions by playing each other in the OOC portion of they year is troubling to the other 98% of the division, there's an easy solution.  If you're one of first, say 50 schools, that Jesse Burleson or Kevin Bullis or Larry Harmon calls to play a game, say yes.

I think this is a pretty silly response Wally. My issue is not that these games shouldn't be getting played because it's not fair because it makes those good teams get even better.

My issue is that, aside from simply not wanting to lose by 50 points (which yes, is a big part of it), maybe D3 teams in the NE/East don't want to go to Texas, or Wisconsin, or Oregon because most teams don't have the resources to ship an entire football team across the country for one OOC game.

I don't think UMHB or HSU flying up to Wisconsin for games is their top choice either, but hey, lemons to lemonade and whatnot. 

I also don't think it's incumbent on teams in R1 and R2 to go to Texas.  That doesn't make a ton of sense when there are 60 other games those teams can make within 200 miles of home base.  But nobody going to Texas or Wisconsin to play has kind of forced those teams into their own pen to play in.  And if they don't all knock each other out of the tournament, they may well end up enhancing each other's chances of being selected. 

[Ralph Turner]

+1! IC798891

The commenters on this board have been discussing these matters for 2 decades. I enjoy the depth of consideration that we read here. I do not think that anyone has denigrated a poster. Rather, I believe that we are "Working the Problem", to borrow the line out of the movie, Apollo 13.

I think that we are focusing on the issues that the Selection Committee for this sport and the Competition Committees across D3 need to keep in mind.

I love those post-season games when a Region 1 or 2 team matches up with a team from the other Regions in the playoffs. I would hope that the Selection Comte on November 12th, gets the best 5 Pool C teams for the playoffs.

[IC798891]

If the power programs consolidating their positions by playing each other in the OOC portion of they year is troubling to the other 98% of the division, there's an easy solution.  If you're one of first, say 50 schools, that Jesse Burleson or Kevin Bullis or Larry Harmon calls to play a game, say yes.

I think this is a pretty silly response Wally. My issue is not that these games shouldn't be getting played because it's not fair because it makes those good teams get even better.

My issue is that, aside from simply not wanting to lose by 50 points (which yes, is a big part of it), maybe D3 teams in the NE/East don't want to go to Texas, or Wisconsin, or Oregon because most teams don't have the resources to ship an entire football team across the country for one OOC game.

I don't think UMHB or HSU flying up to Wisconsin for games is their top choice either, but hey, lemons to lemonade and whatnot. 

Right, but they can. They're willing/able to spend the money to do that.

I don't think most D3 schools are in the same boat. I think we just have to be willing to state that most teams aren't going to go to these lengths to get 10 games. I'm not sure it's a "problem" either way, again, until we try to apply a division-wide system (Pool C) across the two worlds

[crufootball]

If the power programs consolidating their positions by playing each other in the OOC portion of they year is troubling to the other 98% of the division, there's an easy solution.  If you're one of first, say 50 schools, that Jesse Burleson or Kevin Bullis or Larry Harmon calls to play a game, say yes.

I think this is a pretty silly response Wally. My issue is not that these games shouldn't be getting played because it's not fair because it makes those good teams get even better.

My issue is that, aside from simply not wanting to lose by 50 points (which yes, is a big part of it), maybe D3 teams in the NE/East don't want to go to Texas, or Wisconsin, or Oregon because most teams don't have the resources to ship an entire football team across the country for one OOC game.

I don't think UMHB or HSU flying up to Wisconsin for games is their top choice either, but hey, lemons to lemonade and whatnot. 

Right, but they can. They're willing/able to spend the money to do that.

I don't think most D3 schools are in the same boat. I think we just have to be willing to state that most teams aren't going to go to these lengths to get 10 games. I'm not sure it's a "problem" either way, again, until we try to apply a division-wide system (Pool C) across the two worlds

I am not certain that HSU is as willing and able as you might think. They haven't had a non conference game outside the state of Texas since 2013, playing a mixture of non ASC but based in Texas D3 teams and NAIA teams. I truly think last year was the straw that broke the camels back, where one of the big reasons they did not get in the playoffs was they played a non D3 team as there only non conference game. They seemed perfectly happy to not overly strain themselves to get a 10th game but in the end I believe they felt if they wanted a better shot they had to do it.

[Etchglow]

If the power programs consolidating their positions by playing each other in the OOC portion of they year is troubling to the other 98% of the division, there's an easy solution.  If you're one of first, say 50 schools, that Jesse Burleson or Kevin Bullis or Larry Harmon calls to play a game, say yes.

I think this is a pretty silly response Wally. My issue is not that these games shouldn't be getting played because it's not fair because it makes those good teams get even better.

My issue is that, aside from simply not wanting to lose by 50 points (which yes, is a big part of it), maybe D3 teams in the NE/East don't want to go to Texas, or Wisconsin, or Oregon because most teams don't have the resources to ship an entire football team across the country for one OOC game.

I don't think UMHB or HSU flying up to Wisconsin for games is their top choice either, but hey, lemons to lemonade and whatnot. 

Right, but they can. They're willing/able to spend the money to do that.

I don't think most D3 schools are in the same boat. I think we just have to be willing to state that most teams aren't going to go to these lengths to get 10 games. I'm not sure it's a "problem" either way, again, until we try to apply a division-wide system (Pool C) across the two worlds

I am not certain that HSU is as willing and able as you might think. They haven't had a non conference game outside the state of Texas since 2013, playing a mixture of non ASC but based in Texas D3 teams and NAIA teams. I truly think last year was the straw that broke the camels back, where one of the big reasons they did not get in the playoffs was they played a non D3 team as there only non conference game. They seemed perfectly happy to not overly strain themselves to get a 10th game but in the end I believe they felt if they wanted a better shot they had to do it.

Yeah, it wasn't that long ago they were having severe money problems and had to cut a bunch of programs.  They're also being sued by McMurry for over a million dollars right now lol.

[BSCpanthers]

If the power programs consolidating their positions by playing each other in the OOC portion of they year is troubling to the other 98% of the division, there's an easy solution.  If you're one of first, say 50 schools, that Jesse Burleson or Kevin Bullis or Larry Harmon calls to play a game, say yes.

I think this is a pretty silly response Wally. My issue is not that these games shouldn't be getting played because it's not fair because it makes those good teams get even better.

My issue is that, aside from simply not wanting to lose by 50 points (which yes, is a big part of it), maybe D3 teams in the NE/East don't want to go to Texas, or Wisconsin, or Oregon because most teams don't have the resources to ship an entire football team across the country for one OOC game.

I don't think UMHB or HSU flying up to Wisconsin for games is their top choice either, but hey, lemons to lemonade and whatnot. 

Right, but they can. They're willing/able to spend the money to do that.

I don't think most D3 schools are in the same boat. I think we just have to be willing to state that most teams aren't going to go to these lengths to get 10 games. I'm not sure it's a "problem" either way, again, until we try to apply a division-wide system (Pool C) across the two worlds

I am not certain that HSU is as willing and able as you might think. They haven't had a non conference game outside the state of Texas since 2013, playing a mixture of non ASC but based in Texas D3 teams and NAIA teams. I truly think last year was the straw that broke the camels back, where one of the big reasons they did not get in the playoffs was they played a non D3 team as there only non conference game. They seemed perfectly happy to not overly strain themselves to get a 10th game but in the end I believe they felt if they wanted a better shot they had to do it.

Yeah, it wasn't that long ago they were having severe money problems and had to cut a bunch of programs.  They're also being sued by McMurry for over a million dollars right now lol.

What are they being sued for??? 

And after BSC lost a tight one to Huntingdon this past weekend, I'm happy to still be getting mentioned.  Of course, at this point, we all still control our own destiny. 

[Inkblot]

The MIAA is 13-1 through the first two weeks... if they continue that performance through the next two weeks, I gotta think they'll have a good shot at their first-ever Pool C bid.