2022 Season Game Notes

[Maine Soccer Fan]

Lent-Koop was also voted First Team All American by United Soccer Coaches last year. The two Chicago center backs in questions didn't receive a mention for 1st, 2nd or 3rd team. Also, Massey has Messiah's SOS as significantly higher than Chicago's.

I haven't watched Chicago much but Lent-Koop is more than a pure defender, he pings the ball around like Van Dyck and is often the second-fastest guy on the field (after MacDonald). He's a lot more than a big, athletic guy winning headers and playing square passes.

And while we're at it, as a Liverpool fan (currently feeling some pain and discomfort), I need to clarify that Virgil's last name is spelled Van Dijk...

What's worse is I spent two years pronouncing it Van Dick, much to my two sons' embarrassment.

The comparison to Virgil stems from Lent-Koop's ability to hit cross field balls with his left foot to kickstart attacks.

I love that!  How old are your sons?  It's amusing to contemplate their embarrassment.  VVD has had an uncharacteristically uneven season thus far.  He did not perform well during the first part of the Premier League and Champions League season, came alive for Man City and West Ham, and then didn't distinguish himself in Liverpool's pathetic loss to bottom dweller Nottingham Forest.  Nonetheless, he's still likely a tad better than U Chicago's or Messiah's center backs...  :-)

They were college students at the time.

VVD is looking like a shadow of his former himself. It seems like he's never fully recovered from his knee injury.

[PaulNewman]

Btw, Messiah would not go through the NESCAC unblemished either.  That has no necessary correlation with whether Chicago and Messiah (in either order) are the two best teams in the country.

Last time such a feat was accomplished, 2005 Williams

Tufts beat Messiah 2014!

@camosfan, this is a seemingly random, irrelevant, and tangential response to the posts you're quoting here.

2014?  Let me introduce you to a fellow that goes by Falconer.

Is your son a current Tufts player, or former?

[camosfan]

I think D3SoccerTalker responding to you is implying that Messiah would go through Nescac,did I get him wrong? I do have a son currently at Tufts.

[PaulNewman]

I think D3SoccerTalker responding to you is implying that Messiah would go through Nescac,did I get him wrong? I do have a son currently at Tufts.

Well, he or she can jump in but I took that post to mean that it's extremely difficult to go unblemished in the NESCAC.  Hence, referring to Williams and 2005.  Seemed like the post was essentially agreeing that Chicago and Messiah most likely would not go unblemished.

Where is Novacat this year? 

Btw, that 2005 info was helpful to me.  I would have guessed that Amherst had an unblemished conference regular season.  I know they had a very long unbeaten streak.

[camosfan]

Amherst or Williams?

[PaulNewman]

Amherst or Williams?

I'm sure Williams had some good streaks too back in the day but I was referring to Amherst somewhere between 2008 and now.

Btw, you were all over that 2014 reference.  Do you know any details about that game?  Like who scored or anything?

[D3SoccerTalker]

I think D3SoccerTalker responding to you is implying that Messiah would go through Nescac,did I get him wrong? I do have a son currently at Tufts.

No, just merely showing the difficulty of going through the NESCAC completely unblemished (sans ties and what not.) I do think Messiah could, I do think Chicago could, Kenyon, Tufts, Amherst. I just think the likelihood is low given the competitiveness and style of the conference.

[4samuy]

Just back from a good work out, feeling good and refreshed and opened the board and was laughing so hard I actually started crying.  Thanks for everyone's opinions, thoughts and knowledge.  Cracks me up!

The end of the thread turned the discussion toward top conferences, and I  agree with the NESCAC and UAA historically being the best of the best even though the styles of each are much different.  Then the conversation turned to running through a conference unblemished.  Univ of Chicago as recently as 2019, the last pre COVID season, ran the table in the UAA and did not cede a goal throughout the entire conference season (first time ever done in the conference). It was the first post Lopez/Koh season (for those that don't know were two of the most prolific scorers in recent Chicago memory).  So IMO was kind of a transition period on the offensive end.  But, it was the first year on campus for both Gillespie and Wada.

To be fair it was a down year for the UAA as a whole, but still a pretty darn good accomplishment.  I believe ( but don't quote me on this). It was a year in which women had priority hosting in first round of NCAA tournament and Chicago's women's team was one of the tops in the country, the men's team was sent to Holland Mi at Hope eventually losing to Ohio Wesleyan in the second round.


Thanks for all of the hysterical banter.

[blue_jays]

Well, this year they are basically neck and neck but UAA has the slight RPI edge.  So, by one objective measure, UAA is the stronger conference.     Trinity drops the NESCAC into 2nd.  Take them out and NESCAC is stronger on average

Who in the UAA can beat Chicago and it would not be a big surprise?

The NYU game this weekend looms huge, and the Violets on their home field will be a big challenge for the Maroons after not playing at all last week.

[blue_jays]

So how are you going to conclude that the conference is stronger than NESCAC?

NOBODY has made the claim that UAA is better than NESCAC.  Virtually everyone considers NESCAC #1 and UAA #1A or #2.  It would not be a shock for any UAA to beat Chicago and if this is what you are after, Chicago almost certainly would not mow through the NESCAC unblemished.  Where would you rank Chicago right now?

SC, PLEASE post some game notes!  PLEASE.

Actually, I'd love to hear his thoughts on how he can make sense of 1 goal wins against Wheaton, Depaw, Luther, Carthage who Messiah smacked, Rochester who lost to Alvernia...... maybe he could quote D3 soccer's opinion on it all.

I guess I'll fall for the mistake of feeding the troll. It's pretty simple. The Maroons possessed the best overall defense last year IMO while playing against the hardest SOS in the country in 2021. They rode that defense and timely goals to the Final Four last year. UChicago still has that rock-solid defensive identity, and now this year they're finally starting to score after struggling offensively last year. So yes, some 1 goal wins are gonna happen. Their offense is not in Messiah's league, we can all agree on that.
At the same time, UChicago led that Wheaton game 3-0. Their 2-1 win over Case was 2-0 until the last 30 seconds. Same with the Carthage game. It's about context, and you'd know that if you watched the games. Which is fine, no one has time to watch every school. But if you're gonna judge UChicago's quality as a team and their CB duo, IDK, maybe watch so you know what you're talking about.
Messiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

(modified by GS for formatting)

[blue_jays]

Not to get severely off topic from the point of this strand "Game Notes." Have had an opportunity to watch Chicago, specifically their game against CMU and I was impressed with a lot of their tactical movements (ability to fluctuate between a 3/4 back, midfielders dropping into the backline to create overloads, etc . . .) Interestingly, when they switched to a three back in the second half, Wada seemed to play the central role of the three backs/I was a little more impressed with his ability to anchor the defense than Gillespie. Maybe I haven't seen enough or maybe this just showcases the quality of their backs, either way I am looking forward to seeing how they match up against a decently fluid/dyanmic/sizeable NYU attack.

Wada is more of an anchor player while Gillespie is the one who makes forward runs with the ball due to his quickness/speed.

[Coach Jeff]

Messiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

[MessageBoardMessi]

So how are you going to conclude that the conference is stronger than NESCAC?

NOBODY has made the claim that UAA is better than NESCAC.  Virtually everyone considers NESCAC #1 and UAA #1A or #2.  It would not be a shock for any UAA to beat Chicago and if this is what you are after, Chicago almost certainly would not mow through the NESCAC unblemished.  Where would you rank Chicago right now?

SC, PLEASE post some game notes!  PLEASE.

Actually, I'd love to hear his thoughts on how he can make sense of 1 goal wins against Wheaton, Depaw, Luther, Carthage who Messiah smacked, Rochester who lost to Alvernia...... maybe he could quote D3 soccer's opinion on it all.

I guess I'll fall for the mistake of feeding the troll. It's pretty simple. The Maroons possessed the best overall defense last year IMO while playing against the hardest SOS in the country in 2021. They rode that defense and timely goals to the Final Four last year. UChicago still has that rock-solid defensive identity, and now this year they're finally starting to score after struggling offensively last year. So yes, some 1 goal wins are gonna happen. Their offense is not in Messiah's league, we can all agree on that.
At the same time, UChicago led that Wheaton game 3-0. Their 2-1 win over Case was 2-0 until the last 30 seconds. Same with the Carthage game. It's about context, and you'd know that if you watched the games. Which is fine, no one has time to watch every school. But if you're gonna judge UChicago's quality as a team and their CB duo, IDK, maybe watch so you know what you're talking about.
Messiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Appreciate the balanced response. They are clearly a dominant defensive team - which may be the key to their success this offseason.  No taking away from them - I think a fair question to ask is the reality of the scoring on the season.....

(modified by GS for formatting)

[ballboy]

Well, this year they are basically neck and neck but UAA has the slight RPI edge.  So, by one objective measure, UAA is the stronger conference.     Trinity drops the NESCAC into 2nd.  Take them out and NESCAC is stronger on average

Who in the UAA can beat Chicago and it would not be a big surprise?

While I agree that this year it wouldn't be a surprise if they won the rest of their games I don't think a Chicago loss in the UAA is really a surprise. I mean they didn't even win the UAA last year.

[SimpleCoach]

Messiah based on their dominance so far this year should be viewed as the overall favorite to win it all. UChicago will be one of the other favorites as well, even if they do take a loss in their final 3 contests of the regular season.

Be careful when you state 'over all dominance' when Messiah's last 2 wins were against teams with a combined 5-22-4 record and 0-12 in the weak MAC commonwealth conference.  Scoring 16 goals against Average High school players is expected by a team of Messiah's quality.  Playing in a tougher conference you would not see scores like this every game.

Totally get the SOS discussion.  And understand how an easier schedule makes it look like a team may be more dominant.  But this is where I think Massey adds some value.  Don't know how he calculates it so, keep that in mind.  But Messiah's strength of  schedule puts them at 12th in the country. behind all but one NESCAC team (Bates), Mary Washington and Emory.  Chicago's SOS puts them at 34th.  Now I don't think that matters a hill of beans because both, as far as I am concerned, are the best teams in the country.  But then add to the fact that Messiah scores on average 4.5 goals a game, to Chicago 2.5, and Chicago only concedes .5 goals a game... to Messiah's .533 goals a game, its pretty darn close.  I have Messiah and Chicago at #1 and #2, and have had them there since the first poll.  One of them has to prove me wrong, but neither do.

SC.