The D3 soccer vs D1 soccer debate

[ECSUalum]

Lol @ECSU....I can find all that.  You didn't answer a single question I asked. But nice cut and paste.

Sort of an obnoxious reply
Sorry I bored you with my response!!!
Your questions can only be answered by Patrick, ECSU Coach Devito and or URI Coach Garreth Elliot, so frankly they were silly questions to ask in the first place!

[PaulNewman]

Lol @ECSU....I can find all that.  You didn't answer a single question I asked. But nice cut and paste.

Sort of an obnoxious reply
Sorry I bored you with my response!!!
Your questions can only be answered by Patrick, ECSU Coach Devito and or URI Coach Garreth Elliot, so frankly they were silly questions to ask in the first place!

It was perfectly fine to say you had no clue about the answers.  And no, while I certainly can be obnoxious, the questions were not silly.

[ECSUalum]

Lol @ECSU....I can find all that.  You didn't answer a single question I asked. But nice cut and paste.

Sort of an obnoxious reply
Sorry I bored you with my response!!!
Your questions can only be answered by Patrick, ECSU Coach Devito and or URI Coach Garreth Elliot, so frankly they were silly questions to ask in the first place!

It was perfectly fine to say you had no clue about the answers.  And no, while I certainly can be obnoxious, the questions were not silly.

Yeah silly to post on this threat as nobody except the above mentioned people could supply the answers on Pat.  So write a letter to Pat, Greg and Garreth and you will likely get a correct answer! BTW Pat is currently playing in the game vs UConn, but I guess you already knew that!

[PaulNewman]

Lol @ECSU....I can find all that.  You didn't answer a single question I asked. But nice cut and paste.

Sort of an obnoxious reply
Sorry I bored you with my response!!!
Your questions can only be answered by Patrick, ECSU Coach Devito and or URI Coach Garreth Elliot, so frankly they were silly questions to ask in the first place!

It was perfectly fine to say you had no clue about the answers.  And no, while I certainly can be obnoxious, the questions were not silly.

Yeah silly to post on this threat as nobody except the above mentioned people could supply the answers on Pat.  So write a letter to Pat, Greg and Garreth and you will likely get a correct answer! BTW Pat is currently playing in the game vs UConn

Look, I posted a topic, and you and @Ejay both responded with great examples of guys who played D3 who have and/or are exceling at D1.  I thanked you and I asked you very specific questions.  You could have simply told me the questions were silly from the jump. The questions were natural questions as part of the discussion.  You completely avoided them.  That's fine that you don't know.  Suggesting that someone write a letter to find out is asinine.  Do you have any opinion on why he left ECSU?  And btw, based on your posting what's on the website it seems very possible he was a late bloomer who didn't become the player he is until he was at ECSU...so seems very possible he simply wasn't a D1 candidate as a junior and senior in HS.  And maybe he grew 6 inches and gained 45 lbs.  He didn't start until his junior year in high school.  And maybe he never played club soccer.  I'm sure there is a story that makes complete sense and I imagine there are more than the 3 people you cited on the planet who have some insight about it...or maybe it's a closely held secret.

[paclassic89]

And you wonder why no one posts on this board anymore lol

[ECSUalum]

This D3 soccer thread is not just about you!!  I CUT and PASTED the info thinking other people reading on the topic might be interested in Patrick's bio and game stats for both ECSU and URI and would not have to go to the two web sites to obtain the info!  So chill out your questions are not THAT important!!
I am now sorry I responded in the first place!  End of conversation

[PaulNewman]

And you wonder why no one posts on this board anymore lol

Sorry, paclassics.  Please do not give me or anyone else that much power.  I'm suffering from heat stroke.

And ECSU, thank you for posting what you posted.  My apologies.

[PaulNewman]

Hector Gomez scored his first goal for Cleveland State last night in a 2-0 win over the Bonnies of St. Bonaventure.  Played 69 minutes.

[SimpleCoach]

This is an interesting bit on the Allure of D1 soccer.

Chris Matejka of Ohio Northern University

[Kuiper]

This isn't exactly responsive to the original prompt, but people tend to wonder why D3 starters transfer to D1 when playing time isn't guaranteed.  Here are a few reasons I have heard over the years (that apply in normal years, which is different than the current moment when there are more grad transfers to use a student's covid year):

1.  Want to experience more of an official spring season and get closer to playing year-round
2.  Want to be challenged.  It's never ideal for your development and it can be less interesting if you're the best player on your team and know you'll start regardless
3.  Don't want to have regrets because you didn't give it a try.
4.  Scholarship opportunities
5.  Increase your chances of going pro (which is a pipe dream for most players, but a dream nonetheless)

[Hopkins92]

And you wonder why no one posts on this board anymore lol

Sorry, paclassics.  Please do not give me or anyone else that much power.  I'm suffering from heat stroke.

And ECSU, thank you for posting what you posted.  My apologies.

Not for nothing, and not to dredge this back up -- seems properly quashed -- but I feel like traffic is pretty good these days? I mean, there's a natural in- and out-flow of posters as their kids matriculate or whatever, but if I look at the "new" posts when I stop in on a given morning in Sept, I'm looking at over a dozen threads with continuing conversations.

i've watched boards die. This place is not, in any way, dying.

[EnmoreCat]

I have been thinking about this topic a fair bit and have had skin in the game.  The one thing I would say is that at the end of four years, a D1 player has undertaken much more training than a D3, that's the nature of the system, so I reckon, by the end of it the gap is wider than at the start. That also works in reverse on the education side, less missed classes, requirements for accommodation etc. Talking to people here (not just Mammoths) it's clear that many boys in D3 get D1 offers or at least have serious conversations with those schools, but choose D3.  The one thing I do know is that every minute spent on soccer is one less spent on education and really, that's what our sons are there for.  If the choice is becoming a regular at a bottom half ranked D1 where the academics may be only so so, or getting a superior education at a D3 school AND still playing, is the choice really so hard? 

We all know the reality even for players drafted to MLS, they will get one season on average and that will be that.  I am hoping my son has a 30 year career doing whatever he chooses, knowing that like all of our sons and daughters here, that they are being given a wonderful platform to do so AND still get to take their soccer seriously and enjoy being part of quality team environments.

[hiyasoccer]

This is a funny thread... I played D3, obviously new people that went a variety of directions in high school, but I think my views on the levels of soccer were equally or more influenced by the summer team I played on. We had a mix of D3 and D1 players with 1-2 over performing high schoolers. 1 player went on to play lower level pro in US, one went on to play in MLS, and player who practiced with us a couple times you can catch most Saturday morning on Peacock.

It's hard to describe the different between players aggregate levels. But generally the top of D3 lives somewhere between the bottom and middle of D1 - the title contenders, the true 1-2 best teams in the country, are more like middle, the teams that are competitive in the tournament are bottom, but in general I think the difference between those two sets is not big - it's 1-2 difference makers and slightly better depth. At the individual level, you do get a wider range and less depth at the D3 level. Most tournament teams with a chance at a run have at least like 1-3 players that could be solid contributors for mid tier D1 teams, athletic, technical players with good soccer minds and well rounded games. The rest of the rosters have good but flawed players - maybe just not athletic or big enough, maybe a good defensive CB who's distribution never developed beyond simple passing and whacked balls, etc.

There is a pretty solid jump from mid level D1 to top level D1 though. Top level D1 programs have a sprinkling out truly outstanding players who will have a good chance to go pro and play at a different level, and the rest of their team is usually compromised of players in line with the best players from the mid tier programs.

So to summarize, the tiers I think are:
-good D3 team
-elite D3 team/mid tier D1 team
-elite D1 team


At every level, most contributing players would be top level players at the lower tier, and there are a couple players who could make the jump to the next level and fit right in. When you throw all these players together into a roster, you'll generally still get reasonably competitive games most of the time between teams 1 tier apart. I'm also basically just talking about contributing players, not the 25th guy on the roster whose talent level can vary a lot more.

And to take it a bit further for fun (even more speculation now than before) - above D1 is lower tier USA pro, which is starting to get pretty good (USL championship). A tier above that is MLS. A tier above MLS is what I think of as the second tier of euro leagues. And above them are the top 5 leagues (the exact tiers above MLS are not clear to me tbh). Anyways, as a great tweet said recently - you can give Harry Maguire all the **** you want, if you stepped onto a field with him he'd be no different then prime Ronaldinho to you.

[Saint of Old]

Finally someone gets it.
There is LEVELS to football.

I try to stay away from controversial topics... I got negative Karma'd a while back because I said maybe squad sizes have gotten too big.

I do agree with almost everything you said. The levels here is not Basketball/"American" football.
There are players I played with in college who easily could have gone to and excelled at the D1 level. One who got NPOY and 2 or three more who should have gotten it.  Having those gius on your team, the speed of play/practice improves tremendously.
Back then we were maybe in the higher level of D3 with teams like Wheaton, who I played against a nd know for sure had a few D1 strikers in the late 90s.

Levels to football.
If you are at a good D1 team playing things will happen in .7 seconds instead of 1 second in D3.
4 years of playing and getting ACCLIMATED at that level is what makes the D1 teams better.

Similarly, at elite D3 schools, you are practicing with boys that do things at .8 seconds while the rest of the division are doing it at 1 second.
That is the difference.

The two most important things in soccer was, is and will always be TIME and SPACE.
Better teams manipulate the space in less time.
That is the difference.

Gap is not that big and comparing elite D3 teams, might getsmaller.

[D3_Slack]

This is a super interesting thread.  I believe another huge contributing factor in the levels discussion is simply how much time is dedicated to improvement and how much of a priority soccer is once at school.  I'm aware that at some D3 schools players consistently miss practice (with coaches approval), at times weekly, to attend class.  The compromise comes at the expense of soccer, not the class.  It may be frowned upon by the coach but it is completely accepted.  Also, once the season ends the focus/workouts are much less intentional, organized and developmental.  The time spent competing and getting better is less and the priority is less.  What I also find interesting is how much "fit to system" plays into the levels discussion.  My sons team has numerous, legit players with D1 offers (he plays D3) and D1 talent, size, etc. that because of fit to system really don't get much time.