The D3 soccer vs D1 soccer debate

[Another Mom]

Completely agree with @hiyasoccer's take on things. He articulated it far better than I could.  My son played on teams in high school and usl2 that had kids who went to Stanford,  Duke, Georgetown, Michigan, Maryland, among others. Those kids were head and shoulders above everyone else on the team. Elite d1 is miles from d3. Mediocre d1, on the other hand . . .

[PaulNewman]

Levels to football.
If you are at a good D1 team playing things will happen in .7 seconds instead of 1 second in D3.
4 years of playing and getting ACCLIMATED at that level is what makes the D1 teams better.

Similarly, at elite D3 schools, you are practicing with boys that do things at .8 seconds while the rest of the division are doing it at 1 second.
That is the difference.

The two most important things in soccer was, is and will always be TIME and SPACE.
Better teams manipulate the space in less time.
That is the difference.

SOL, I agree with all this I think, assuming that by saying four years of acclimating to the increased speed of play makes a difference you would also agree that in general what makes a kid attractive as a recruit for good to elite D1 is that he can play at the faster pace from the get-go...and, again in general, is faster, quicker, quicker soccer processing IQ, bigger/stronger, etc.  My belief is that there are many D3 playrs at the good to elite D3 level especially who are as skilled and maybe occasionally more skilled than their D1 counterparts, but are a step or two slow by comparison....sort of like a D3 bball player might be as good (or better) at 3 pointers as a D1 kid but the D3 kid wouldn't be able to get his shot off in D1.

I hear you on the karma...still bothers me and I wish it didn't because a little controversy often is great for spurring discussion.

[Hopkins92]

I'm on a karma giving spree.

I don't really like this system. I don't really care much, in the grand scheme, but it just seems to foster pettiness. Agree that, in general, a good faith debate and discussion is what keeps things interesting around here.

[camosfan]

On the D3, D1 comparison, I think the gap has somewhat narrowed , this is occurring because the best kids are skipping college for MLS or the European  leagues. Calvin Aroh, German Giammattei and  two kids at Conn College could walk into any D1 lineup, not to mention quite a few keepers. The quality variation is vast in both leagues,the top D3 programs could compete in the Ivy and Liberty leagues.

[PaulNewman]

I'm on a karma giving spree.

I don't really like this system. I don't really care much, in the grand scheme, but it just seems to foster pettiness. Agree that, in general, a good faith debate and discussion is what keeps things interesting around here.

Agreed....and when myself (as has happened from time to time) or anyone else goes over the line OR always complains but rarely contributes anything we should be called on it. 

[Another Mom]

I'm on a karma giving spree.

Thanks @hopkins92! :-)

[Kuiper]

On the D3, D1 comparison, I think the gap has somewhat narrowed , this is occurring because the best kids are skipping college for MLS or the European  leagues. Calvin Aroh, German Giammattei and  two kids at Conn College could walk into any D1 lineup, not to mention quite a few keepers. The quality variation is vast in both leagues,the top D3 programs could compete in the Ivy and Liberty leagues.

Do you meant Patriot League (e.g., Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh, Colgate, American etc)?  If so, I agree, although I think that's because a player interested in a top academic and soccer program in the Northeast in a small or midsize liberal arts school is going to tend to be looking at schools in the Ivy, Patriot, Nescac, UAA, Centennial, etc conferences (and non-athletes often look at the same group of schools because they have a lot of similarities).  I know a number of HS players and current college players who are or were looking at a mix of D1/D3 schools from those conferences.  For them, the D1 advantage in terms of spring play and somewhat higher prestige/better facilities was just one consideration in the mix of a number of factors that included academic prestige too.

By contrast, out west, you don't have too many players, if any, who are considering Pomona-Pitzer and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps alongside Stanford, UCLA, and Cal Berkley.  For one, the soccer gap is too great, but also the schools are entirely different in size and appeal to different kinds of students even if they all have academic prestige.  You do have some players, especially at Redlands, who might have gone to D1 programs like Cal State Northridge or Cal Baptist, or a D2 program like Cal Poly Pomona (to name some schools in some geographic proximity), but choose Redlands because they get similar or better financial aid and can get more personal attention in the classroom and more playing time on the field.

[camosfan]

Thanks! meant Patriot

[Saint of Old]

Levels to football.
If you are at a good D1 team playing things will happen in .7 seconds instead of 1 second in D3.
4 years of playing and getting ACCLIMATED at that level is what makes the D1 teams better.

Similarly, at elite D3 schools, you are practicing with boys that do things at .8 seconds while the rest of the division are doing it at 1 second.
That is the difference.

The two most important things in soccer was, is and will always be TIME and SPACE.
Better teams manipulate the space in less time.
That is the difference.

SOL, I agree with all this I think, assuming that by saying four years of acclimating to the increased speed of play makes a difference you would also agree that in general what makes a kid attractive as a recruit for good to elite D1 is that he can play at the faster pace from the get-go...and, again in general, is faster, quicker, quicker soccer processing IQ, bigger/stronger, etc.  My belief is that there are many D3 playrs at the good to elite D3 level especially who are as skilled and maybe occasionally more skilled than their D1 counterparts, but are a step or two slow by comparison....sort of like a D3 bball player might be as good (or better) at 3 pointers as a D1 kid but the D3 kid wouldn't be able to get his shot off in D1.

I hear you on the karma...still bothers me and I wish it didn't because a little controversy often is great for spurring discussion.

I agree that the above is what attracts D1 colleges to high school players who think quicker and make decisions at a faster rate.

This is very difficult though as this assessment is happening for kids at 15-17 years old.
Some kids get in at 17, 18,19. Become late bloomers and are already at college institutions before it clicks or clicks to a dangerous degree.

By this time the D3 players are already at school so a bit more difficult to find them out of HS.
Overall, I think a player blossoms or hits a stride at 17 years old (Europe/US/Africa) thiis is just too old for D1 colleges to start their recruiting.

We agree for the most part though that it is brain seed and quickness of play in which the separation lies.

I have a slight disagreement on Basketball though. D1 ballers shoot better than D3 players BY FAR. and have less time to take the shot.
Also, best player I played with in college, who also represented his country at the senior level, at the same time, was 5 foot 6.
That automatically would take you out of any D1 BB conversation, and this kid would have played on any D1 team in the country.

Our game is different where size does not matter, and too much size can actually be a disadvantage in soccer at times.

[PaulNewman]

Hector Gomez started, played 78 min, and got assist in Cleveland St's 1-0 win over Oakland today.

[Gregory Sager]

Jesse Anamoo leads Santa Clara with three goals in eight games for the Broncos, who are 3-2-3.

[4231CenterBack]

Endicott is traveling to Newton to play BC on 10/24.  I thought it was a typo but it appears on both schedules.  Joe Calabrese, to his credit, has always been willing to schedule aggressively but this takes it to a whole new level!

[PaulNewman]

Endicott is traveling to Newton to play BC on 10/24.  I thought it was a typo but it appears on both schedules.  Joe Calabrese, to his credit, has always been willing to schedule aggressively but this takes it to a whole new level!

Ah, I thought you beat me to some other news.  Hector Gomez played the full 90 last night for Cleveland State and got the GW in a 1-0 win over Robert Morris.

Looks like Patrick Agyemang also still doing very well and was put on the Hermann trophy watch list.  Curious if there is any relation to the English footballer Patrick Agyemang who played for Wimbledon, Charlton Athletic, Preston North End, QPR, etc and had a couple of caps for Ghanian National Team.

[PaulNewman]

While still mired in misery I took a diversion to check on a couple of our former D3 shining stars who became D1 grad players.

Hector Gomez' campaign ended in the 1st round of the NCAA D1 tournament as Cleveland State lost to Pittsburgh 2-1.  Hector played the full 90 and scored an unassisted goal at 88:06 to pull one back for the Vikings before bowing out.

German Giammattei racked up 3 minutes in a NCAA 1st round 5-2 win for Maryland over FDU.  GG then registered a DNP in a 2nd round 2-1 defeat to Cornell in Ithaca.

[EnmoreCat]

I did recently see a few highlights from some NCAA D1 Tournament games and whilst it's not rocket science (but I do suspect at some of the colleges I saw, rocket science probably isn't offered) it becomes pretty obvious, quite quickly that the pace, skill and efficiency which the ball moves at is different to the top end of D3.  Equally, that shouldn't surprise, D1 coaches get access to their players all year round and whether it's playing soccer or learning the violin, it's difficult not to improve and to see a general higher quality, given those circumstances. 

I share the misery PN, fortunately the Socceroos have taken things to another level...