2022 NCAA Regional Rankings

[4samuy]

That is great information for me personally, since I wasn't aware of the Nescac rule.  I appreciate that! Can you help me understand and give clarity as to why that rule is in place.

[College Soccer Observer]

For a long time, Nescac teams in all sports were not allowed to participate in the NCAA tournament. That rule still applies to football. The basis of the idea is fewer games means more time to do other things. For example, Nescac teams in soccer do not start preseason until late August. They emphasize as little interference with academics as possible, which is why their teams often play Sat and Sun doubleheader. Playing Friday and Sunday would result in more missed class time.

[4samuy]

I know, due to the Nescac tournament that at least two teams will get to 18 games, but I'm still trying to understand "the rule" as it relates to the conference and the NCAA. F'rinstance I was critiquing Chicago for only scheduling 17 games without a conference tournament, and a team like Messiah who will likely get to 20 games played with a conference tournament.  Just trying to get my arms wrapped around thes numbers and why they occur.

[4samuy]

Sorry college soccer observer.

Posted prior to seeing your reply.

[PaulNewman]

It's modeled after the Ivy League, and UAA is to some extent as well I believe.

[PaulNewman]

The JCU announcer, who I think is really, really good, just went absolutely crazy.  JCU player chipped the Otter GK to go up 3-2 in 2nd OT with about 7 left.  He loves his Blue Streaks (and I assume a student but I'm not good at that) but he's very fair to the other team and their fans, will call out his own fans, knows all the players both teams, etc

[College Soccer Observer]

He did get it over the keeper, but what on earth was the keeper doing 12 yards off his line at that point?  He had not chance to beat the JCU player to the ball.

[Domino1195]

The same crap that has been happening in the GL all year - except for Kenyon.

It's not parity, it's shared mediocrity. I thought my early season comments/disappointment about poor play and decision making would be due to new teams gelling. But all year long I've seen teams implode. Marauding goalkeepers who unnecessarily leave the 6 - too many times.  Ironic given the GK for Otterbein in 2017 would still be inside his 6 until five minutes after the game ended.

ONU's defensive gaffes cost them. I watched the OT goal several times - Moses didn't have it that easy.

Earlier today I was going to post in the GL thread a preview of this weekend and thoughts about bid thieves, which I thought would only be OWU. They have to win to be in. But ONU put their fate unnecessarily on the line. If Case beats the highly over-ranked CMU this weekend I think they secure an at-large. I don't think there are more than 7 bids for the GL: 5 from conference tourneys and 2 at-large.  ONU has to hope OWU doesn't beat Kenyon - who is in regardless of Saturday's result. If Wilmington somehow wins on Sat and OWU wins: the first and second place teams from the OAC could be out.

Forecast for Sat at noon: 20 mph winds with rain by 2 pm - temps near 70. And I thought I'd play golf in the am . . .

[EnmoreCat]

This will be a shock to Enmore Cat and other that I am defending Amherst, but keep in mind that per Nescac league rules, their teams are only allowed 15 regular season games where other teams can play up to 18. Wins are therefor always going to be down for Nescac teams vs other top squads unless they run the table.

Feels more like Amherst is collateral baggage for the NESCAC point you're making CSO.  I certainly won't suggest you're an Ammirer!

[blue_jays]

The same crap that has been happening in the GL all year - except for Kenyon.

It's not parity, it's shared mediocrity. I thought my early season comments/disappointment about poor play and decision making would be due to new teams gelling. But all year long I've seen teams implode. Marauding goalkeepers who unnecessarily leave the 6 - too many times.  Ironic given the GK for Otterbein in 2017 would still be inside his 6 until five minutes after the game ended.

ONU's defensive gaffes cost them. I watched the OT goal several times - Moses didn't have it that easy.

Earlier today I was going to post in the GL thread a preview of this weekend and thoughts about bid thieves, which I thought would only be OWU. They have to win to be in. But ONU put their fate unnecessarily on the line. If Case beats the highly over-ranked CMU this weekend I think they secure an at-large. I don't think there are more than 7 bids for the GL: 5 from conference tourneys and 2 at-large.  ONU has to hope OWU doesn't beat Kenyon - who is in regardless of Saturday's result. If Wilmington somehow wins on Sat and OWU wins: the first and second place teams from the OAC could be out.

Forecast for Sat at noon: 20 mph winds with rain by 2 pm - temps near 70. And I thought I'd play golf in the am . . .

I am confidently predicting a Case win. CMU was one of the weakest teams UChicago has seen this year, that game was over within 5 minutes. CWRU should be in regardless IMO, that's a good feisty team. I'd take them into the NCAA field over CMU any day.

[Coach Jeff]

The same crap that has been happening in the GL all year - except for Kenyon.

It's not parity, it's shared mediocrity. I thought my early season comments/disappointment about poor play and decision making would be due to new teams gelling. But all year long I've seen teams implode. Marauding goalkeepers who unnecessarily leave the 6 - too many times.  Ironic given the GK for Otterbein in 2017 would still be inside his 6 until five minutes after the game ended.

ONU's defensive gaffes cost them. I watched the OT goal several times - Moses didn't have it that easy.

Earlier today I was going to post in the GL thread a preview of this weekend and thoughts about bid thieves, which I thought would only be OWU. They have to win to be in. But ONU put their fate unnecessarily on the line. If Case beats the highly over-ranked CMU this weekend I think they secure an at-large. I don't think there are more than 7 bids for the GL: 5 from conference tourneys and 2 at-large.  ONU has to hope OWU doesn't beat Kenyon - who is in regardless of Saturday's result. If Wilmington somehow wins on Sat and OWU wins: the first and second place teams from the OAC could be out.

Forecast for Sat at noon: 20 mph winds with rain by 2 pm - temps near 70. And I thought I'd play golf in the am . . .

I am confidently predicting a Case win. CMU was one of the weakest teams UChicago has seen this year, that game was over within 5 minutes. CWRU should be in regardless IMO, that's a good feisty team. I'd take them into the NCAA field over CMU any day.

Blue Jays I totally agree with you about their game against Chicago, they were out played in every area of the game.  CMU looked a lot better the last game against U of PAYWALL (Rochester).  It actually looked like they were better than an average High school team which is all I could have said about CMU against Chicago.

[Christan Shirk]

I flip flopped Lyco and Rowan. I had the RvR wrong and it makes sense that Rowan is ahead with H2H and 3 ranked wins. I am unsure how I missed Rowan getting to 3 wins in the RvR category. I'm actually still uncertain, as I still get 1-3-1 when looking at the last rankings. Can someone help me out here-what am I missing?

I think you have caught a mistake in the NCAA's data sheets (which begs the question about how many other errors there might be).

Rowan versus Week 2 ranked teams:
Wins (1):  Lycoming
Losses (3): Johns Hopkins, Cortland State, Montclair State
Ties (1): Trinity (Texas)

Rowan may still have been ranked ahead on the basis of head-to-head as everything else would seem rather even, but given Lycoming was ahead last week it's hard to see what would have changed the order for this week.

Christan-what happens now? Will the NCAA acknowledge the error? Does it get fixed? What kind of impact does this have? That's a HUGE error IMO 

I will be contacting the NCAA shortly.  I have figured out the error as it is not only Rowan who has an incorrect RvR.  Now I want to confirm if the same error is occurring for women.  The RvR on this week's data sheets is being based on who was ranked last week (10/26) and this week (11/2).  So teams who played opponents who newly entered the rankings this week, had those results included in the RvR shown on the data sheets. 

Of course, it's impossible for the committees to have been looking at data based on decisions/rankings they hadn't completed yet.  So I do not think the rankings were done looking at the data the NCAA released to the public with the incorrect RvR.  In other words, I doubt that teams were incorrectly ranked because of incorrect data being reviewed/considered by the committees.  I think the data sheets released to the public this week were incorrectly re-generated after the rankings were finalized.

As we understand from communication with NCAA committee members in years past, the RvR works as posted on our website:

"Results versus ranked teams" criteria spelled out

For the . . .

first weekly rankings:  N/A (no previous rankings)

second weekly rankings:  results versus teams ranked in the first weekly rankings

third weekly ranking:  results versus teams ranked in the second weekly rankings

final rankings:  results versus teams ranked in the third weekly rankings

at-large selections:  results versus teams ranked in either the third weekly rankings or the final rankings

Based on that understanding which the data has confirmed to be correct in past years, it is an error to base RvR on two week's rankings except when developing the data to be considered when comparing team across regions in the at-large selection process.  And the week to base the RvR on for the four weekly rankings is the previous week.

We at D3soccer.com have gotten a reply from the NCAA.  First and most importantly, we have been assured that the data the Regional Advisory Committees were looking at in doing this weeks rankings was correct.  That is, the Results versus Ranked Opponents data was correctly based on who was ranked last week (10/26).  We have no reason to doubt that as it would be impossible for the committees to have data based on decisions/rankings they hadn't yet made/completed.

What happened is that the data sheets they posted to their website had the Results versus Ranked Opponents data re-generated after the new rankings had been determined, and not only that, it was based on opponents ranked either last week (10/26) or this week (11/2).  Neither should have happened. The data sheets should reflect what the committees were looking at when making their decisions.  The NCAA knows this and was appreciative that we brought their attention to the mistake.  However, at this point, I do not expect that they will post the correct data sheets to accompany this week's rankings.

For ranking purposes, the Results versus Ranked Opponents is always based on just one week's rankings--the previous week's rankings.  It is only subsequent to the fourth/final rankings done this coming Monday that the Results versus Ranked Opponents data is updated to reflect opponents ranked in two weeks--either the third (11/2) or final (11/7) rankings.  This is the RvR that will be used in making at-large selections when comparing teams across the 10 regions.  What isn't clear is whether the national committee tweaks the fourth rankings based on the new RvR data to change the order teams come to the table in their selection process.

[SierraFD3soccer]

REGION V - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 02, 2022

Rank	School	. Div. III . Record	. Div. III . SOS	. R-v-R .	. Overall . Record	. Prev. . Rank
1.	Messiah	17-0-1	0.569	6-0-1	17-0-1	1
2.	Johns Hopkins	11-1-5	0.574	4-1-1	11-1-5	2
3.	Franklin and Marshall	12-1-4	0.583	1-1-2	12-1-4	3
4.	Catholic	11-2-4	0.575	1-1-2	11-2-4	4
5.	Drew	12-2-4	0.565	1-1-1	12-2-4	5
6.	Alvernia	11-3-5	0.530	2-2-0	11-3-5	6
7.	Gettysburg	9-3-5	0.556	0-2-3	9-3-5	7

FYI, Next week's regional rankings may be very, very different as (I believe) - 4th ranked through 7 either did not make their conf. tourn. or did not make it past the semis.  FYI, that could include F&M and Hopkins after tonight. 

[PaulNewman]

REGION V - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 02, 2022

Rank	School	. Div. III . Record	. Div. III . SOS	. R-v-R .	. Overall . Record	. Prev. . Rank
1.	Messiah	17-0-1	0.569	6-0-1	17-0-1	1
2.	Johns Hopkins	11-1-5	0.574	4-1-1	11-1-5	2
3.	Franklin and Marshall	12-1-4	0.583	1-1-2	12-1-4	3
4.	Catholic	11-2-4	0.575	1-1-2	11-2-4	4
5.	Drew	12-2-4	0.565	1-1-1	12-2-4	5
6.	Alvernia	11-3-5	0.530	2-2-0	11-3-5	6
7.	Gettysburg	9-3-5	0.556	0-2-3	9-3-5	7

FYI, Next week's regional rankings may be very, very different as (I believe) - 4th ranked through 7 either did not make their conf. tourn. or did not make it past the semis.  FYI, that could include F&M and Hopkins after tonight.

Hopkins and F&M will not drop below the others even with a loss.

[SierraFD3soccer]

REGION V - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 02, 2022

Rank	School	. Div. III . Record	. Div. III . SOS	. R-v-R .	. Overall . Record	. Prev. . Rank
1.	Messiah	17-0-1	0.569	6-0-1	17-0-1	1
2.	Johns Hopkins	11-1-5	0.574	4-1-1	11-1-5	2
3.	Franklin and Marshall	12-1-4	0.583	1-1-2	12-1-4	3
4.	Catholic	11-2-4	0.575	1-1-2	11-2-4	4
5.	Drew	12-2-4	0.565	1-1-1	12-2-4	5
6.	Alvernia	11-3-5	0.530	2-2-0	11-3-5	6
7.	Gettysburg	9-3-5	0.556	0-2-3	9-3-5	7

FYI, Next week's regional rankings may be very, very different as (I believe) - 4th ranked through 7 either did not make their conf. tourn. or did not make it past the semis.  FYI, that could include F&M and Hopkins after tonight.

Hopkins and F&M will not drop below the others even with a loss.

Yeah thought.too but did not to appear to much of a homer, haha. Still important for both as to where they'll possibly play I believe. Also winning the conf in a string Messiah year is a great accomplishment for either.