Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!

[PaulNewman]

I've been following the dialogue here for quite sometime, more so the last two weeks or so.  Really having a hard time wrapping my head around a 20-0-2 team not even "being brought to the table" as some of you have put.  Clearly something is wrong with the committee process and standards for bids to the national tournament.

Surely a few tenths of a percentage in lower SoS can't be the deciding factor when the actual winning percentage is a full 2 to 3 points higher?  Westconn was 4-0-1 against teams in the tournament, but they only won those games by one goal and that is a bad thing? In a year full of ties, they WON. Finishing with the 3rd best win% in the country, tied for most shutouts, 2nd best goal differential, 3rd most goals scored.  Left out.  Between them and Montclair, they have some legitimate beef!

If team names were left off of resumes presented to the committee, Westconn would never have been left out of the big dance.  Given Montclair's more known name in the world of D3 Soccer - its just as head scratching

*Full disclaimer, I have no ties to Westconn or Montclair.  I live in CT and go to a number of different college games each season to watch with my kids.  Just love watching good competitive soccer.

I was pulling for West CT.  And I think taking the names off to assess the resumes often is a very helpful idea.  In this case, however, 20-0-2 and a SoS of .510-.515 would have stood out like a sore thumb.  So in this case I think the argument is more about how the major criteria get weighted.  For me it was enough but obviously for the cmte it wasn't.  I would have been very curious to see if would have made a difference if West CT had been #2 in Region II instead of #7 in Region I.

I also wonder if geography may have played into a few of the final picks, and perhaps explains Montclair versus CMU or UW-Platteville or Pac Lutheran or Vassar, etc.

[jknezek]

I've been following the dialogue here for quite sometime, more so the last two weeks or so.  Really having a hard time wrapping my head around a 20-0-2 team not even "being brought to the table" as some of you have put.  Clearly something is wrong with the committee process and standards for bids to the national tournament.

Surely a few tenths of a percentage in lower SoS can't be the deciding factor when the actual winning percentage is a full 2 to 3 points higher?  Westconn was 4-0-1 against teams in the tournament, but they only won those games by one goal and that is a bad thing? In a year full of ties, they WON. Finishing with the 3rd best win% in the country, tied for most shutouts, 2nd best goal differential, 3rd most goals scored.  Left out.  Between them and Montclair, they have some legitimate beef!

If team names were left off of resumes presented to the committee, Westconn would never have been left out of the big dance.  Given Montclair's more known name in the world of D3 Soccer - its just as head scratching

*Full disclaimer, I have no ties to Westconn or Montclair.  I live in CT and go to a number of different college games each season to watch with my kids.  Just love watching good competitive soccer.

I think most of us believe Western Conn being placed behind Hamilton in the Region 1 Regional Rankings was... a travesty. A fair number of us probably think putting them behind Williams was a less than elegant solution. But that is what the committee did and, given the vagaries in how primary criteria is applied, those decisions are defendable. SoS was highly valued this year. The NESCAC's well earned reputation as the best conference in D3 soccer earned them a lot of leeway. More than I think they should have gotten in this case, but not incorrectly applied by an interpretation of the criteria.

That's why you don't leave it up to the committee. Win your conference. While I think Western Ct should be in the tournament over others that were selected, they should have guaranteed themselves a spot by winning the automatic qualifier. They didn't, and they paid a very heavy price.

[LetteroftheLaw]

I've been following the dialogue here for quite sometime, more so the last two weeks or so.  Really having a hard time wrapping my head around a 20-0-2 team not even "being brought to the table" as some of you have put.  Clearly something is wrong with the committee process and standards for bids to the national tournament.

Surely a few tenths of a percentage in lower SoS can't be the deciding factor when the actual winning percentage is a full 2 to 3 points higher?  Westconn was 4-0-1 against teams in the tournament, but they only won those games by one goal and that is a bad thing? In a year full of ties, they WON. Finishing with the 3rd best win% in the country, tied for most shutouts, 2nd best goal differential, 3rd most goals scored.  Left out.  Between them and Montclair, they have some legitimate beef!

If team names were left off of resumes presented to the committee, Westconn would never have been left out of the big dance.  Given Montclair's more known name in the world of D3 Soccer - its just as head scratching

*Full disclaimer, I have no ties to Westconn or Montclair.  I live in CT and go to a number of different college games each season to watch with my kids.  Just love watching good competitive soccer.

I was just responding to Ejay about his claim that he was shocked that Catholic got in and acknowledged that West Conn had a stronger argument to get in over Vassar than Catholic since they beat them head to head and Vassar has the same amount of losses as Catholic and fewer wins. I do think you make a good point about getting actual results despite the small margin of victory. With that being said, the only comparable result you can look at between West Conn and Catholic is their games against Drew who Catholic handled 4-1 and West Conn tied.
As for Montclair State I think they have a strong argument given their national ranking through the year and also beating Vassar head to head. They also played Catholic head to head and tied, who knew a game in early September would have such a drastic impact on the committee but certainly seems like that factored in big time.
It's an interesting discussion for sure but I'm happy to be on the good side of the committees decision for once.

[Planters Nuts]

I don't disagree that they should have taken care of business during their conference final.  I watched two of their games this season (normally always watch Western vs Eastern as its a great in state rival and crosses off two CT teams in one game!).  The other game being their first match against UMass Boston.  The 2-1 score line made it appear to be close but it was far from it.  A Questionable PK awarded to UMass made that game appear close. 

Perhaps Umass decided to sit back and absorb in the Finals.  Whatever they did clearly worked for them.  WestConn was head and shoulders above them, and quite frankly took it to Eastern on their grass field 3-1. 

They appear to have a young team, hopefully those kids take this as fuel for next year.  And I guess schedule some better opponents!  This has to be the first time ever a team that never lost failed to make the NCAA, right?

[PaulNewman]

Not sure about an undefeated team, but Randolph in 2013 was 17-2-1 (10-1 in ODAC), lost in ODAC final 2-1 OT to VWU, and I don't think anyone thought for a second that Randolph would get a bid.  Iirc may not ever have been regionally ranked that year.  May have had a SoS even lower than West CT.

[Hopkins92]

Welcome Planter!!

[Gregory Sager]

Yes ... welcome aboard, Planter!

[Kuiper]

Not sure about an undefeated team, but Randolph in 2013 was 17-2-1 (10-1 in ODAC), lost in ODAC final 2-1 OT to VWU, and I don't think anyone thought for a second that Randolph would get a bid.  Iirc may not ever have been regionally ranked that year.  May have had a SoS even lower than West CT.

Claremont-Mudd-Scripps had a 14-1-3 record in D3 games last year, with their only loss coming in the SCIAC tournament finals to Redlands, was regionally ranked 3 behind Trinity and Redlands.  They also had a .542 SoS, which is a strong record given their required conference schedule.  Plus, they beat Redlands the first time they played them.  Nevertheless, they didn't get a Pool C bid. They actually scheduled this year to overcome their SoS and RvR issues from 2021, playing games at Trinity, Southwestern, Willamette, and Pacific Lutheran (but three ties, two losses, and a hazing suspension later, this season was a total wash).  That's basically the scheduling Western Conn has to do next year and they can do so at greatly reduced cost compared to a Region X school.

[SKUD]

Question to all...

If you could replace 2 teams in the field of 64 who would you put in and who would you take out?

[paclassic89]

Pool C's only or anyone?  Lots of AQs could be replaced by stronger Pool C's who got left out

[SKUD]

Good point!  Pool C

[SKUD]

Pool C's only or anyone?  Lots of AQs could be replaced by stronger Pool C's who got left out

What AQ Leagues would you drop?

[LetteroftheLaw]

Good point!  Pool C

I think the last four in were Vassar, Catholic, Lynchburg, Williams
I think last two out were Montclair St and West Conn State - both in order

[PaulNewman]

Good point!  Pool C

I think the last four in were Vassar, Catholic, Lynchburg, Williams
I think last two out were Montclair St and West Conn State - both in order

I'm guessing UW-Platteville and CMU also were borderline.

Montclair versus Calvin would have been a very interesting match.

Also would toss Brockport into the snubs category with MSU and W CT.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Pool C's only or anyone?  Lots of AQs could be replaced by stronger Pool C's who got left out

Yes and No for me.  Obviously, there are teams that got hot for 2 or 3 games (including through the horrible PK shootout system) and would most likely never be an at-large bid.  There clearly are teams that should have gotten at-large bids. 

However, starting the season every team has the dream of making the NCAAs and not all teams make it into their conf. tourney.  Many of the teams who qualify for the conf. tournament stumble along the way so wouldn't be considered for at-large bid.  This year I believe that there are two teams that never made the NCAAs and they had to win their tournaments to qualify.  I don't know if there are any at-large teams who had not been in the NCAAs most recently (in the last 5 years).

So, IMO this is good thing for D3 soccer and makes their programs as well as soccer in general stronger! Win the tournament and there is chance to make their programs better the next couple of years.