Big Dance 2022 - Let's Go!

Started by Hopkins92, November 07, 2022, 01:39:27 PM

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PaulNewman

Quote from: Kuiper on December 03, 2022, 05:10:40 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 03, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Congratulations to UChicago-- 2022 NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Champions

Final:  UChicago 2, Williams 0   Chicago gets an empty net goal with 14 seconds left to seal it.

Congratulations to Julianne Sitch- First woman to coach a men's soccer team to an NCAA Championship in any division.

I wonder if Sitch is also the first coach to win it in the their first year with the program and in their first year as a college head coach at any level (she was head coach of the Chicago Red Stars reserves that won their conference in the WPSL in 2021, but otherwise her college (and senior level pro) experience has been as an assistant coach).  I wouldn't be surprised if those are firsts in college as well.  Although she inherited a really strong team with tournament experience, I've seen many a head coach screw that up.  Plus, she helped integrate some strong freshman attackers into the lineup and kept the team united and tactically strong.  Arguably, she brought in tactics that pushed them over the top.

Interestingly, I just read about the CWRU women's coach today in part because CWRU being in the title game, especially the women, seemed surprising to me.  Abby Richter, the CWRU coach, fits all those criteria above....hired in August, never a head coach before.  I totally understood why Bianco left CWRU for Denison but CWRU is a fantastic school... maybe doesn't have the glamour of some of its UAA brethren but one of the more underrated, under the radar schools among top tier academic schools.  The CWRU women's record over the past few years suggests that they were building towards a season like the one they're having, but, just like with the Chicago men, being able to go so far with another coach you just met when school started seems impressive.

PaulNewman

Sidenote....I am almost certain I will awaken in the middle of the night to seeing Williams #12, Cole Morriello, preparing to do a throw-in.  Talented, good-looking kid who got tons of air time and will probably have a sweet NIL deal by tonight.  No matter what side of the field the ball went out on he seemed to be there already.  He and Boardman really did seem to be wherever the ball was almost all the time.  And Morriello, also just a frosh, took all or at least the vast majority of free kicks and corners.  Diffley was probably second for free kicks (of the 65-80 yard variety).

4samuy

I'm curious to anyone's thoughts as to yetishevkys goal on an empty net with 14 seconds left.  He clearly could have run out the clock.  IMO strikers look to score and that was the first thing on his mind.  Should he have held the ball and let the clock run down.

Kuiper

Another interesting (at least to me) side note is that Williams just completed four straight games without a tie (1-0 over ONU, 1-0 over Kenyon, 1-0 over Mary Washington, and 0-2 loss to Chicago - I'm not counting Messiah because that's technically a tie settled by a tiebreaker PK shootout).  That's its longest stretch without a tie all season.  The previous high was two games without a tie, which happened twice this season.

PaulNewman

Quote from: 4samuy on December 03, 2022, 07:39:07 PM
I'm curious to anyone's thoughts as to yetishevkys goal on an empty net with 14 seconds left.  He clearly could have run out the clock.  IMO strikers look to score and that was the first thing on his mind.  Should he have held the ball and let the clock run down.

I didn't have a problem with it.  I think most teams in that spot would have taken the shot.  I mean, Williams was still trying desperately to score with 34 secs left and that's what created that last goal.  That said, the goal does distort the outcome....which was barely a 1-0 game.  And putting the empty-netter aside, it's very possible Chicago had less good chances today than the last few opponents of Williams.  The game-deciding goal by Pino while a gorgeous strike was basically a good half-chance.  I don't recall any better chances during the game and Gillespie and Wada were pretty much non-factors on set pieces/corners...although I thought Wada in particular was outstanding in the back.

Gregory Sager

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2022, 05:38:01 PMI also thought Chicago needed to score in the first half

I didn't. Chicago is a second-half team, and it's been that way all year for the Maroons. They end their championship season with over twice as many goals in the second halves of their games (35) than they scored in the first halves (15).
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

Gregory Sager

Quote from: 4samuy on December 03, 2022, 07:39:07 PM
I'm curious to anyone's thoughts as to yetishevkys goal on an empty net with 14 seconds left.  He clearly could have run out the clock.  IMO strikers look to score and that was the first thing on his mind.  Should he have held the ball and let the clock run down.

Never, ever, ever take anything for granted, fourteen seconds left or not, in a one-goal game -- especially if it's a national championship game. If you have a shot at an empty-netter, you take it, no questions asked.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

PaulNewman

Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 03, 2022, 08:02:55 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2022, 05:38:01 PMI also thought Chicago needed to score in the first half

I didn't. Chicago is a second-half team, and it's been that way all year for the Maroons. They end their championship season with over twice as many goals in the second halves of their games (35) than they scored in the first halves (15).

Well, as it turned out that's obviously true.  But it's not like Chicago came out in the 2nd half and was peppering the goal.  I'm guessing they wanted to get a goal in the 1st half very badly.  For me, it wasn't about whether Chicago is a 1st or 2nd half team but more so what needed to happen to make Williams face a very different dynamic than the one that carried through the first five games.

blue_jays

Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 03, 2022, 08:02:55 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2022, 05:38:01 PMI also thought Chicago needed to score in the first half

I didn't. Chicago is a second-half team, and it's been that way all year for the Maroons. They end their championship season with over twice as many goals in the second halves of their games (35) than they scored in the first halves (15).

My thoughts exactly. When it was 0-0 at half, I was feeling fine about UChicago's chances. The Maroons are an adjustment team, their second halves are where they really shine. Whether it be changing tactics or just wearing out opponents, that's the time when they thrive.

PaulNewman

Quote from: blue_jays on December 03, 2022, 08:11:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 03, 2022, 08:02:55 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2022, 05:38:01 PMI also thought Chicago needed to score in the first half

I didn't. Chicago is a second-half team, and it's been that way all year for the Maroons. They end their championship season with over twice as many goals in the second halves of their games (35) than they scored in the first halves (15).

My thoughts exactly. When it was 0-0 at half, I was feeling fine about UChicago's chances. The Maroons are an adjustment team, their second halves are where they really shine. Whether it be changing tactics or just wearing out opponents, that's the time when they thrive.

Then BOTH teams were feeling great at the break.  Stich certainly didn't look super confident as the 1st half came to a close.  Also curious what adjustments you think Chicago made at the half.  Not trying to diminish Chicago's accomplishment at all....absolutely one of the best two teams all season (probably by a good margin) and a thoroughly deserving national champion.  VERY happy for the Maroons.  But we don't need to distort what actually happened on the field or act like Chicago came out in the 2nd half and cleaned Williams' clock.

blue_jays

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2022, 08:17:18 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on December 03, 2022, 08:11:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 03, 2022, 08:02:55 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2022, 05:38:01 PMI also thought Chicago needed to score in the first half

I didn't. Chicago is a second-half team, and it's been that way all year for the Maroons. They end their championship season with over twice as many goals in the second halves of their games (35) than they scored in the first halves (15).

My thoughts exactly. When it was 0-0 at half, I was feeling fine about UChicago's chances. The Maroons are an adjustment team, their second halves are where they really shine. Whether it be changing tactics or just wearing out opponents, that's the time when they thrive.

Then BOTH teams were feeling great at the break.  Stich certainly didn't look super confident as the 1st half came to a close.  Also curious what adjustments you think Chicago made at the half.  Not trying to diminish Chicago's accomplishment at all....absolutely one of the best two teams all season (probably by a good margin) and a thoroughly deserving national champion.  VERY happy for the Maroons.  But we don't need to distort what actually happened on the field or act like Chicago came out in the 2nd half and cleaned Williams' clock.

Didn't say that at all. That's just how I felt at the time when halftime rolled around and UChicago wasn't trailing. The Maroons for years now are a second half team, that's just how they are built and how they operate. So I felt good about their chances at the time, and it proved to be correct. Doesn't matter if any coaching changes happened today or not, it's more about how the team gains steam as the match goes on.

Ephpreciation

Having followed Williams closely this year, I just want to say how much some of these posts are appreciated here at the end of their journey.  From a distance, their number of regular season wins and ties might raise questions about making the field of 64.  Those questions were answered for most with a 2-1 OT win against a strong NYU side (who provided UChicago the lone tie in an otherwise perfect season).  Things began to get interesting the next day after taking out Messiah on PK's.  The team knew they could play with anyone and anyone paying attention knew they would be a tough out- no matter what you think of their style of play.  A hard earned 1-0 win against Ohio Northern meant another Sunday match-up against a host team used to piling up goals and wins.  Kenyon got neither on that day as Williams made a late goal stand up for another 1-0 win.  One of the problems with denigrating a team's style of play is that it deflects credit from the players who earned every result they got.  Ben Diffley is one of the best, if not the best, GK's in DIII.  Nick Boardman demonstrated that he's among the best field players in DIII.  They and their teammates didn't surrender a goal in the run of play from October 15-December 3- a span of 11 games and 1,075 minutes.  That's your story.  The final game in that streak was another hard fought 1-0 win against UMW in the semi's.  The UChicago game was similar to the other five games played to that point in the tournament- this time a world class strike was the difference.  All you can do is tip your cap, hold your head high and say congratulations. 

Hopkins92

#897
I'm going to be very honest, I didn't really spend a lot of time watching Williams this year. Certainly not enough for me to come on here and make any kind of judgement about their style of play. It was definitely interesting to see folks I respect dig into them on a fairly regular basis.

I kind of learned a bit of a lesson with F&M, a team that seems to draw some amount of inspiration from Tufts in terms of style of play and bench antics. The lesson: results are really what matters. If the squad is bought in, and there needs to be significant buy-in when you start going off of the usual script for success, you can do some real damage at almost any level. (Edit to Add, or ETA:  I was very critical of the Dips for a couple of seasons running, because they played garbage ball against Hopkins. But it was effective, so... I'm the one sucking sour grapes, so reflect on that. You can rail against it, try to fix it, neither or both.)

I will say this, and I'm not the first to mention it, what little I did see of Williams, I was impressed by their overall skill on the ball. Of course, incredible D was on display (this was the game against Messiah). But, I'll just say... I don't care what type of system you deploy, you don't make a national title game without a lot of incredible players.

So, kudos to Williams for a great season.

Kuiper

Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2022, 05:57:19 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on December 03, 2022, 05:10:40 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on December 03, 2022, 02:09:31 PM
Congratulations to UChicago-- 2022 NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Champions

Final:  UChicago 2, Williams 0   Chicago gets an empty net goal with 14 seconds left to seal it.

Congratulations to Julianne Sitch- First woman to coach a men's soccer team to an NCAA Championship in any division.

I wonder if Sitch is also the first coach to win it in the their first year with the program and in their first year as a college head coach at any level (she was head coach of the Chicago Red Stars reserves that won their conference in the WPSL in 2021, but otherwise her college (and senior level pro) experience has been as an assistant coach).  I wouldn't be surprised if those are firsts in college as well.  Although she inherited a really strong team with tournament experience, I've seen many a head coach screw that up.  Plus, she helped integrate some strong freshman attackers into the lineup and kept the team united and tactically strong.  Arguably, she brought in tactics that pushed them over the top.

Interestingly, I just read about the CWRU women's coach today in part because CWRU being in the title game, especially the women, seemed surprising to me.  Abby Richter, the CWRU coach, fits all those criteria above....hired in August, never a head coach before.  I totally understood why Bianco left CWRU for Denison but CWRU is a fantastic school... maybe doesn't have the glamour of some of its UAA brethren but one of the more underrated, under the radar schools among top tier academic schools.  The CWRU women's record over the past few years suggests that they were building towards a season like the one they're having, but, just like with the Chicago men, being able to go so far with another coach you just met when school started seems impressive.

Well, Case Western didn't win on the women's side, but UCLA Women's Soccer won the national championship in D1 women's soccer and the coach, Margueritte Aozasa, is a first time head coach in her first year at UCLA.  I was shocked to read that she's only the fourth women to coach a team to the women's national championship.  Just goes to show how men have dominated coaching at all levels and in both men's and women's soccer for a long time (and perhaps it reflects the dominance of a few male coaches like Anson Dorrance, who was gracious in his remarks in defeat against UCLA).

On Case, it is definitely a hidden gem in some respects.  Not sure why it is still hidden.  It's in a beautiful location in the University Circle neighborhood of Cleveland, near museums and just a few minutes east of downtown with easy public transportation.  I tend to think academically the merger in the late 1960s didn't serve either Case Inst of Technology or Western Reserve University all that well at the time.  Case was always playing second (or third fiddle) in the tech dept to nearby Carnegie Mellon and the RPIs and MITs, and the merger with Western Reserve probably diluted its brand further.  Now, both sides are academically strong, with Case benefiting from close-by Cleveland Clinic, but academic reputations are sticky and it has never gotten the recognition it deserved.  I expect that joining the UAA was partly an attempt to align itself with the reputation of other members of the conference.  Much like the NESCAC (and the Ivy league in D1), the UAA is the kind of athletic conference that sends a signal about a school's academic mission and probably does help to raise the academic profile of the school for some students.

PaulNewman

Smart, savvy folks who aren't dominated by prestige, elitism, and what the neighbors will think are good at finding the hidden gems...like a CWRU or a Rochester or Stevens or WPI, or at the LAC level a Denison, a Whitman, a Centre, a Rhodes, etc...You might give up some sunny days and 40 to 50 degrees in temperature and 15-20 ranking spots in USNWR, but the academics are just as good in most cases (and maybe sometimes better), athletic opportunities might be a bit more attractive, and you might get some very helpful merit money.  Even for those of us who realize rankings shouldn't be so focal and overwhelming in our minds, it's very difficult at least for people within a particular demographic to truly break free from the false idol of rankings.  We learn about and live them as though they have some hard reality...and the impact of that is huge and leads to categorizing schools in ways we basically accept as real that aren't real....like "so and so is a top 5 school" or "top 10 school" or a "that one's OK, it's still top 40 or 50."  And the industry knows how powerful the mythology is because some of them are laser-focused on improving their ranking...and why not when doing so yields very clear results, more applicants, lower admissions rates, more money, better facilities, and whatever else goes along with substantial reputation boosts (see Colby, Richmond, Denison, etc).  We assign different meanings to a school that's ranked #5 versus one that's #25 even though your kid's chances of as good an outcome and in many cases even better outcomes (med school, law school, careers) may be significantly better at the one ranked #25 or even #75.  This stuff gets so ingrained we often don't even realize what we're doing.  Someone could tell me his kid is seriously looking at Gustavus Adolphus, and my kneejerk response might be something like "Oh wow, that's nice.  St Peter, MN, right? Is she considering Grinnell out that way as well?"  The frames and filters we "wear" everyday are so much more dominant than we think they are.

But be careful.  Your kid may actually listen and ultimately disappoint you.  I loved Rochester and "discovered" it in our family.  In my mind (and I suspect this is often the case with CWRU) I considered UR to be the almost perfect high-end safety school for my daughter...and good enough for my ego if that's how things played out.  Nevertheless, when she had all of your choices in front of her after all the acceptances, wait lists, and rejections came in, I could not help wanting her to pick Macalester, Bryn Mawr, Barnard, or NYU.  It was all ego, ego, ego.  I knew UR was every bit as good as any of the others and in hindsight she and we never had any regrets (jokes about paywalls aside), but I still imagined lukewarm social responses when others would hear about her choice...like, with a slightly puzzled look "Oh, Rochester, nice school" and then watching that couple move on to the parents jabbering about Dartmouth. 

Back to CWRU....I think you are correct @Kuiper that the medical excellence now synonymous with Cleveland because of Cleveland Clinic and also to some degree Case Medical has a positive contagion effect on CWRU in general.  Cleveland in terms of medicine is considered absolutely on a level with Boston, San Fran, Baltimore, NYC, Rochester, MN, Toronto, etc....but all things being equal, how often is a kid who holds acceptances from U Michigan, UVA, CMU, Wash U, Emory, and CWRU gonna choose CWRU?  Not often unless the money difference is extreme and a critical factor.