Top D3 Men's Soccer Programs Past Decade

[PaulNewman]

PN's Top D3 Men's Soccer Programs Past Decade

1.  Tufts
2.  Messiah
3.  Calvin
4.  Amherst
5.  Chicago
6.  Kenyon
7.  North Park
8.  Trinity (TX)
9.  Washington & Lee
10. Oneonta St
11. Franklin & Marshall
12. John Carroll
13. Montclair St
14. Rochester
15. Stevens

Honorable Mention (alphabetical):  Christopher Newport, Cortland St, Johns Hopkins, Lynchburg, Middlebury, OWU, Rowan, SLU

[Saint of Old]

Taking out my beloved Saints out of the conversation to remain completely objective.
Tufts
Amherst
Messiah

After this it becomes an argument of nuance/bias/point of view/subjectivity.
These 3 programs owned the past decade.
Every year they are in the mix and win it, go to the final 4 or their loss was a big upset.
These programs have a lot to be proud of, and they climbed the mountain top atleast once in the process as well.
Messiah went to 3 National Finals
Tufts went to 4 National Finals
Amherst went to 3 National finals
8 of 10 National Championships between them
ConnCollege and Chicago won the last 2.

After top 3 the variables are too much to accurately rank, but no question about the top 3.

[PaulNewman]

Taking out my beloved Saints out of the conversation to remain completely objective.
Tufts
Amherst
Messiah

After this it becomes an argument of nuance/bias/point of view/subjectivity.
These 3 programs owned the past decade.
Every year they are in the mix and win it, go to the final 4 or their loss was a big upset.
These programs have a lot to be proud of, and they climbed the mountain top atleast once in the process as well.
Messiah went to 3 National Finals
Tufts went to 4 National Finals
Amherst went to 3 National finals
8 of 10 National Championships between them
ConnCollege and Chicago won the last 2.

After top 3 the variables are too much to accurately rank, but no question about the top 3.

Was consideration of your alma mater going to change your top 3, which is as far as you went?

So you picked two of my top three and your other one I have at #4.  It's close, but I think a strong case can be made for Calvin at #3....multiple finals since 2011,  multiple final fours, incredible winning percentage, etc.  But I'm not gonna quibble with being at #3 or #4.  I think the top 5 is pretty clear.  I think Kenyon is pretty clear at #6.  Then it gets a little more debatable imo.

[NESCACfan100]

If we are looking at just the past decade, Conn College needs to be on the list.

Especially when you consider the fact that they beat Tufts AND Amherst to win the title.

[jknezek]

If we are looking at just the past decade, Conn College needs to be on the list.

Especially when you consider the fact that they beat Tufts AND Amherst to win the title.

And this is where it gets tricky. Because yes, the last 3 full seasons have been outstanding. But the previous 7 full seasons were extremely average (5-4-6, 7-9-1) to good (10-5-1, 10-5-2). I might have them in my top 10, heavily weighting the last 3 years, but it would be down near the bottom.

Another way to think about it is over the last 10 seasons they've won 103 games, but 45 of them came in the last 3 years. So an average of 15 wins per year in the last 3 seasons, bloody fantastic, vs an average of 8.25 wins in the previous 7... nothing to really be excited about.

[NESCACfan100]

Agreed, Conn College has only recently emerged in the past 3-ish seasons. With that being said, they are the only NCAA champion to be left out of the original top 10 list by PN. This is where it can be subjective (although not really)..For example, John Caroll is 12th on the list but hasn't been past the Sweet 16 in the past 10 seasons, if ever. Conn went to the Elite 8 in 2019 prior to winning in 2021. Thoughts?

[jknezek]

Agreed, Conn College has only recently emerged in the past 3-ish seasons. With that being said, they are the only NCAA champion to be left out of the original top 10 list by PN. This is where it can be subjective (although not really)..For example, John Caroll is 12th on the list but hasn't been past the Sweet 16 in the past 10 seasons, if ever. Conn went to the Elite 8 in 2019 prior to winning in 2021. Thoughts?

It's subjective. If you want to heavily weight those last 3 years, then yes, Conn deserves a place. I'd have them on there toward the bottom as I said.

But, depending on how you want to count COVID seasons, JCC hasn't won less than 12 games in a season in the last 10 seasons (in the Covid shortened 2020 they went 10-0).

So JCC has a consistency that Conn simply can't match over the last 10 years. Conn has much higher highs, but also significantly lower lows. JCC just takes care of business year in and out.

[PaulNewman]

Thanks for jumping in Nescacfan...

First, let me say that I was presenting my own opinion obviously, and while I looked up a few teams to check for especially down years or a surprising number of stellar seasons I put the list together pretty quickly.  I certainly hoped others would offer their own thoughts and lists which would be interesting to compare.

Conn clearly would be in for me and relatively high if I was thinking of a 5 years parameter.  Also thought about Bowdoin but was a little gunshy because I felt iffy on putting Midd in my HM grouping.  If I had a do-over I might take Midd out and put Conn in.

Yes, the thing with JCU is the consistency.  Yes to Sweet 16s but they rarely lose to an inferior team. 

I definitely felt less sure about where to place teams once I got to or past North Park and W&L.  W&L also would likely be higher on a 5 year parameter, although not sure the top 6 would change much for me.  I thought about how I would rank Chicago on a 5 year interval, and I suppose they might jump Calvin or Amherst or even Messiah but none of those programs had down years over the past 5 either.  And Conn would be knocking on the door of the top 5 or 6 at a 5 year interval imo as well.

One last note on Calvin (and I am not a Calvin fan despite deep respect)....leaving aside the Finals appearance in 2011, Calvin made 4 Final Fours since 2015 and 2 Finals. 

***  I also may have missed Conn a bit because of the relatively mediocre season last year...so despite the title the year before maybe got snared by a little recency bias.

[PaulNewman]

I did feel pretty confident about the top 12...while realizing the exact ordering might be quite debatable.  Imo probably a dozen teams could make a claim for the last 3 spots.

Franklin & Marshall is another interesting one.  Very similar to JCU.  Consistently good with strong record.  Usually bow out in the Sweet 16 or 2nd round although had an Elite 8 in 2013 on the back of top-ranked OWU getting knocked out by Rose Hulman in a stunning upset at Roy Rike.  May have had another Elite 8 but not sure without looking it up. 

[PaulNewman]

Lots of random thoughts while hypomanic (which is just the best!)...

Kind of amazing we STILL have not gotten the Tufts vs Messiah rematch since the 2014 tilt that started the Tufts magical run.

And have Messiah and Amherst ever gone head-to-head?

Calvin knocked out Messiah one year at Shoemaker in double OT I think in a Sweet 16 game (although could have been Elite 8).

Chicago and Calvin have knocked each other out of the tournament, including Calvin besting Chicago 4-1 in a national semi a year after Chicago beat Calvin in the Sweet 16.

[NESCACfan100]

Thanks for the response PN. I hear your points on consistency, and I think that is extremely important when thinking about this list.

But, I could further to argue that the consistency in discussion with John Caroll and Franklin & Marshall, is mainly due to playing a weaker competition. I am sure if Conn or Midd or Bowoin played in their conferences, they would get bids to the tournament every season.

I mean, isn't there a reason that JCU/Franklin & Marshall and other programs bow out consistently in the second round, maybe Sweet 16. They aren't as battle tested as NESCAC schools.

So when considering a list of the best programs of the decade, how great are you if you can't make a deep run?

[NESCACfan100]

And to jump in on Conn having a mediocre season in 2022. This is true.

But to put into perspective, Conn was the only team to beat Williams (twice, regular season and post-season) besides UChicago, which was in the National Final. Just speaking on the strength of the conference.

[PaulNewman]

Thanks for the response PN. I hear your points on consistency, and I think that is extremely important when thinking about this list.

But, I could further to argue that the consistency in discussion with John Caroll and Franklin & Marshall, is mainly due to playing a weaker competition. I am sure if Conn or Midd or Bowoin played in their conferences, they would get bids to the tournament every season.

I mean, isn't there a reason that JCU/Franklin & Marshall and other programs bow out consistently in the second round, maybe Sweet 16. They aren't as battle tested as NESCAC schools.

So when considering a list of the best programs of the decade, how great are you if you can't make a deep run?

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here to some degree. 

I'm guessing you are a Camels fan, and let me say that in a heartbeat I'd trade your national title in exchange for dropping Kenyon 10 spots on my list.  National titles are huge as our friend SOL like to remind us, but a 10 year period is still 10 years.

Anyway, JCU and F&M are battle tested....not NESCAC battle tested of course but hopefully this won't devolve into a debate about the greatness of NESCAC which almost all know and most concede quite readily.  JCU definitely over the past 5 years and probably the last 10 has had a top 10ish SoS.  Go look at their schedule for the upcoming season.  Consistently one of toughest schedules in the country.  F&M plays in a very competitive conference with Hopkins and Haverford has had some very strong years.  Washington College had a huge year a couple of years ago.  Several other Centennials have consistently strong programs. 

NESCAC lovers sometimes seem to think there aren't really good soccer teams in other parts of the country.  Yes, Calvin, Kenyon, Trinity, OWU, North Park, W&L, Hopkins, etc would incur more losses every year if in NESCAC, but they'd also perform well in NESCAC too. 

Btw, Conn didn't beat Williams twice last year iirc...second match was PKs.  You also need some good fortune.  Camels almost got knocked out 1st round by Salem State at outset of their title chase.

Curious though about you would rank a top 15...again, based on 10 years.

[PaulNewman]

JCU's 2023 non-conf schedule features @Kenyon, @Carnegie Mellon, CWRU, @OWU, Denison, @ Calvin, North Park (neutral site)...

That's a killer schedule...and in the OAC Otterbein and Ohio Northern have been very good with Capital also recently in the NCAA tourney.

Conn has Mitchell, RIC, Wheaton (MA), ECSU, and Babson.

And yes I know the gauntlet that is the NESCAC schedule is plenty by itself.

[Kuiper]

Thanks for the response PN. I hear your points on consistency, and I think that is extremely important when thinking about this list.

But, I could further to argue that the consistency in discussion with John Caroll and Franklin & Marshall, is mainly due to playing a weaker competition. I am sure if Conn or Midd or Bowoin played in their conferences, they would get bids to the tournament every season.

I mean, isn't there a reason that JCU/Franklin & Marshall and other programs bow out consistently in the second round, maybe Sweet 16. They aren't as battle tested as NESCAC schools.

So when considering a list of the best programs of the decade, how great are you if you can't make a deep run?

Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here to some degree. 

I'm guessing you are a Camels fan, and let me say that in a heartbeat I'd trade your national title in exchange for dropping Kenyon 10 spots on my list.  National titles are huge as our friend SOL like to remind us, but a 10 year period is still 10 years.

Anyway, JCU and F&M are battle tested....not NESCAC battle tested of course but hopefully this won't devolve into a debate about the greatness of NESCAC which almost all know and most concede quite readily.  JCU definitely over the past 5 years and probably the last 10 has had a top 10ish SoS.  Go look at their schedule for the upcoming season.  Consistently one of toughest schedules in the country.  F&M plays in a very competitive conference with Hopkins and Haverford has had some very strong years.  Washington College had a huge year a couple of years ago.  Several other Centennials have consistently strong programs. 

NESCAC lovers sometimes seem to think there aren't really good soccer teams in other parts of the country.  Yes, Calvin, Kenyon, Trinity, OWU, North Park, W&L, Hopkins, etc would incur more losses every year if in NESCAC, but they'd also perform well in NESCAC too. 

Btw, Conn didn't beat Williams twice last year iirc...second match was PKs.  You also need some good fortune.  Camels almost got knocked out 1st round by Salem State at outset of their title chase.

Curious though about you would rank a top 15...again, based on 10 years.

And if we're replaying Conn College's title run, they barely got by Redlands that year in the third round, winning 1-0 on a goal scored in the 89th minute.  Maybe if the game had been played in the middle of the country, rather than in Medford, MA, which necessitated a cross-country trip for jet-lagged Redlands (after a long trip to Tacoma in the first and second rounds) and a couple hour drive for Conn, we might be talking about Redlands, rather than Conn, having a claim to a spot in the top 15 on the strength of the one championship and a few runs in the NCAA tourney.

Bottom line for me is that Conn did win that game and went on to win the championship and they did get to the Elite 8 before that, but I can see how it's a tougher case when the focus is on consistency over a 10 year period.  If you were ranking on best seasons, Conn's 2021 team and its magical run to the championship certainly would be on that list.