2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[SierraFD3soccer]

All right. Im coming on here to say that I will refrain from posting in the national thread now. The W&L team was -- compared to the last two years -- terrible.  The long balls (which the coach likes) were not great. But the midfield didn't win the ball, or if they did, they turned it over immediately.  Our forwards are struggling, to put it mildly. Much of it is mental, although Paul Newman disagrees with me. They lacked urgency and intensity. I am thoroughly disgruntled and grumpy. The one silver lining is my son getting a shout out from the announcers

So, see ya on what, the Mid-Atlanticthread?.

Guessing so.  I've refrained from talking about F&M and self relegated {??} to the Mid Atlantic as well.

Tough, tough loss. Mid season though and should our teams end up winning or in the finals of their respective conferences then right back at it. Hahaha.

[Maine Soccer Fan]

A couple of interesting results over in NESCAC-land:
Amherst 1 - 2 Babson
Tufts 0 - 0 Wesleyan

Oh, and the spelling autocorrect for "Babson" is great.

[Freddyfud]

All right. Im coming on here to say that I will refrain from posting in the national thread now. The W&L team was -- compared to the last two years -- terrible.  The long balls (which the coach likes) were not great. But the midfield didn't win the ball, or if they did, they turned it over immediately.  Our forwards are struggling, to put it mildly. Much of it is mental, although Paul Newman disagrees with me. They lacked urgency and intensity. I am thoroughly disgruntled and grumpy. The one silver lining is my son getting a shout out from the announcers

So, see ya on what, the Mid-Atlanticthread?.

Not really my business but I think you may be overly harsh.  It's not like they didn't have chances, and it was a close game.  Can't speak to the comparison to previous years but understand how you may feel that way.  And I don't want to get into specifics but would agree one of the center backs in particular played well defensively.

I mentioned this elsewhere. It is easy to look at a box score and label the leading scorers or assisters as the MVPs.  After all Americans do like points. But this ignores a much broader context.  If I watch a game and know the GKs can adeptly distribute, the CBs are clamps, and the central midfielders will likely take over the middle third I'm taking that team to win.  Regardless of scoring leader status, psychological readiness or even coaching.

There are some subtleties in terms of central midfield positioning and movement that are easy to overlook.  This is a big reason why I cringe when I hear anyone generalize and label a team as "possession-based" or similar.  Just because a coach or anyone uses this label does not make it so. If there is a presumption a team's midfield was not impactful or even non existent, the reason is more likely than not due to the play of the opposing midfielders.  IMO that is what happened in this game tonight.

I can imagine how proud you feel after your son's shout out.  FWIW 30 years ago while on breaks from my own "studies" I spent many nights with dear friends at W&L (at least from what I can recall.)  Soccer was NOT part of my experience, but I did see Dave Mathews perform live in their fraternity house before I (or anyone else) knew who they were.  Very fond memories and a great group of friends. It really is an exceptional school.

Good luck to you and your son this year. 

[PaulNewman]

Freddy, are you in NC?  You've mentioned Raleigh a couple of times. I grew up about 35-40 miles northeast of RDU/CH up I-85.

[Freddyfud]

Freddy, are you in NC?  You've mentioned Raleigh a couple of times. I grew up about 35-40 miles northeast of RDU/CH up I-85.

Yes sir. Moved here about 20 years ago.

[PaulNewman]

"A night of high tension, velocity, and a hunger for carnage finally drew to a close as the clock ticked away its final seconds."

Gianluca is giving me some John Facenda vibes (think NFL films)....the frozen tundra at Lambeau Field....

https://jcusports.com/news/2023/9/27/mens-soccer-blue-streaks-sink-viking-ship-to-end-non-conference-play-on-a-high-note.aspx

[Kuiper]

A couple of results of note from the SCIAC for the National Perspective thread:

Occidental 1 - Cal Lutheran 1

Not a bad result for Oxy, but I'm sure they are disappointed to not win the game at home.  As I mentioned in my preview on the Go WEST thread, though, this is always a close game and they tied both of their games last year.  Still, Oxy will be regretting a number of missed chances to score.

Redlands 1 - Pomona-Pitzer 1

This is not the best response by Redlands to their loss against Oxy over the weekend.  Pomona-Pitzer has to be thrilled, though, especially to tie it up late in the game without Niclas Ulrich, who did not play in this game for some reason.  He is P-P's best goal threat on set plays, scoring both on free kicks that he takes and on free kicks and corners with his head when he comes up from central defense to position himself in the opponent's box.  Pomona-Pitzer is now 2-4-3 and 1-2-2 in conference.  Redlands drops to 6-1-1 overall and 2-1-1 in conference.

[Gregory Sager]

"A night of high tension, velocity, and a hunger for carnage finally drew to a close as the clock ticked away its final seconds."

Gianluca is giving me some John Facenda vibes (think NFL films)....the frozen tundra at Lambeau Field....

https://jcusports.com/news/2023/9/27/mens-soccer-blue-streaks-sink-viking-ship-to-end-non-conference-play-on-a-high-note.aspx

He's a little overwrought sometimes, but I generally liked him.

Too bad about the outcome ... and too bad about the inconsistent webstream, although I know full well the difficulties of setting up shop for a broadcast several hours away from campus in the middle of a rainy day.

[Another Mom]

Thanks for the kind words, Freddyfud.

[SierraFD3soccer]

I can imagine how proud you feel after your son's shout out.  FWIW 30 years ago while on breaks from my own "studies" I spent many nights with dear friends at W&L (at least from what I can recall.)  Soccer was NOT part of my experience, but I did see Dave Mathews perform live in their fraternity house before I (or anyone else) knew who they were.  Very fond memories and a great group of friends. It really is an exceptional school.

Good luck to you and your son this year.

One of two W&L grads on this board I think.  Preceded Dave Matthews by a year or two I think when he and his band was centered in Charlottesville. May have overlapped, but always a good time at any party.  Might have been my fraternity, but with 17 fraternities in my day (only 1200 students and went coed while I was there) may have not been. Virtually everyone joined one.  Played soccer sparsely under the previous coach to the current which was a pretty inconsequential team then and until the day this coach retired was still. W&L until this coach was not even close to being known as a soccer school.  All the current coach working hard and getting great results. I don't think W&L maybe made the NCAAs once if not at all.

As to why I am not rah-rah W&L has less than to do with the current coach, but with W&L and its crazy, crazy cost. Almost criminal in my opinion. Many of the guys who graduated in my time have the same issue, and, like me, would have had their kids go to W&L. Son was recruited and got in early decision, but we couldn't afford (two other younger kids had to go to college as well). It did not make any sense for our family. One of the issues not often discussed on the boards. FYI, when I was at W&L it was fairly affordable for a liberal arts college. Long story.   

[Ron Boerger]

In a totally different light, why would you brag about your team giving up three OGs in two games?

https://twitter.com/MBUSabercats/status/1706842245695946795?t=O-46ASUzXXMAV37jvjr_mw&s=19

Maranatha Athletics
@MBUSabercats
WE HAVE SCORED THREE OWN GOALS IN TWO GAMES IS THIS AN NCAA RECORD

And yes, they gave them up per https://www.mbusabercats.com/sports/msoc/2023-24/releases/20230926kfszva

WAUWATOSA, Wis. -- The Sabercats lent a hand tonight, scoring two own goals in a 4-0 loss to Wisconsin Lutheran

[camosfan]

Is that a brag, or critical self-evaluation?

[jknezek]

I can imagine how proud you feel after your son's shout out.  FWIW 30 years ago while on breaks from my own "studies" I spent many nights with dear friends at W&L (at least from what I can recall.)  Soccer was NOT part of my experience, but I did see Dave Mathews perform live in their fraternity house before I (or anyone else) knew who they were.  Very fond memories and a great group of friends. It really is an exceptional school.

Good luck to you and your son this year.

One of two W&L grads on this board I think.  Preceded Dave Matthews by a year or two I think when he and his band was centered in Charlottesville. May have overlapped, but always a good time at any party.  Might have been my fraternity, but with 17 fraternities in my day (only 1200 students and went coed while I was there) may have not been. Virtually everyone joined one.  Played soccer sparsely under the previous coach to the current which was a pretty inconsequential team then and until the day this coach retired was still. W&L until this coach was not even close to being known as a soccer school.  All the current coach working hard and getting great results. I don't think W&L maybe made the NCAAs once if not at all.

As to why I am not rah-rah W&L has less than to do with the current coach, but with W&L and its crazy, crazy cost. Almost criminal in my opinion. Many of the guys who graduated in my time have the same issue, and, like me, would have had their kids go to W&L. Son was recruited and got in early decision, but we couldn't afford (two other younger kids had to go to college as well). It did not make any sense for our family. One of the issues not often discussed on the boards. FYI, when I was at W&L it was fairly affordable for a liberal arts college. Long story.   

I'm class of 2000, so I missed Dave Matthews by a few years but I did, for a time, have the infamous bootleg of him playing at Zollman's Pavilion off campus at a W&L event, maybe sometime in 1993?

Anyway, when I was there the soccer team was decent, always toward the top of the ODAC. Coach Piranian was there for almost 40 years and went 313-242-56 according to W&L's website. He won the ODAC in '86, '89, and '00, reaching the Sweet Sixteen of the NCAAs in '00.

As for the cost, yes, it's ridiculous. And what makes it more ridiculous is it is not out of line with most of the top Liberal Arts schools in the country. It was a "value" school when I was there, expensive, but not near as expensive as its peers. I turned away from a bunch of Centennial Schools since they were much more expensive at the time. Now they all carry a ridiculous sticker. However, the sticker is kind of a joke, as almost no one pays it. W&L's sticker is around 80K a year including room and board. The actual average cost, after scholarships and grants, is about 27K per year.

The whole "industry" is rife with this kind of lunacy. Don't get me wrong, 27k per year is still expensive, but out of state to go to UVA is going to cost 21K after scholarships and grants, so it's not like state schools are a lot better.

Anyway, discussion for a different spot. I'll just say we've been spoiled the last decade with W&L soccer teams. This team doesn't seem to have the same talent, or at least the same ability to win games. Down years happen almost everywhere. I think it will be ODAC tournament champs or no post season for the Generals for the first time since 2014 (not counting COVID).

[Freddyfud]

I can imagine how proud you feel after your son's shout out.  FWIW 30 years ago while on breaks from my own "studies" I spent many nights with dear friends at W&L (at least from what I can recall.)  Soccer was NOT part of my experience, but I did see Dave Mathews perform live in their fraternity house before I (or anyone else) knew who they were.  Very fond memories and a great group of friends. It really is an exceptional school.

Good luck to you and your son this year.

One of two W&L grads on this board I think.  Preceded Dave Matthews by a year or two I think when he and his band was centered in Charlottesville. May have overlapped, but always a good time at any party.  Might have been my fraternity, but with 17 fraternities in my day (only 1200 students and went coed while I was there) may have not been. Virtually everyone joined one.  Played soccer sparsely under the previous coach to the current which was a pretty inconsequential team then and until the day this coach retired was still. W&L until this coach was not even close to being known as a soccer school.  All the current coach working hard and getting great results. I don't think W&L maybe made the NCAAs once if not at all.

As to why I am not rah-rah W&L has less than to do with the current coach, but with W&L and its crazy, crazy cost. Almost criminal in my opinion. Many of the guys who graduated in my time have the same issue, and, like me, would have had their kids go to W&L. Son was recruited and got in early decision, but we couldn't afford (two other younger kids had to go to college as well). It did not make any sense for our family. One of the issues not often discussed on the boards. FYI, when I was at W&L it was fairly affordable for a liberal arts college. Long story.   

I'm class of 2000, so I missed Dave Matthews by a few years but I did, for a time, have the infamous bootleg of him playing at Zollman's Pavilion off campus at a W&L event, maybe sometime in 1993?

Anyway, when I was there the soccer team was decent, always toward the top of the ODAC. Coach Piranian was there for almost 40 years and went 313-242-56 according to W&L's website. He won the ODAC in '86, '89, and '00, reaching the Sweet Sixteen of the NCAAs in '00.

As for the cost, yes, it's ridiculous. And what makes it more ridiculous is it is not out of line with most of the top Liberal Arts schools in the country. It was a "value" school when I was there, expensive, but not near as expensive as its peers. I turned away from a bunch of Centennial Schools since they were much more expensive at the time. Now they all carry a ridiculous sticker. However, the sticker is kind of a joke, as almost no one pays it. W&L's sticker is around 80K a year including room and board. The actual average cost, after scholarships and grants, is about 27K per year.

The whole "industry" is rife with this kind of lunacy. Don't get me wrong, 27k per year is still expensive, but out of state to go to UVA is going to cost 21K after scholarships and grants, so it's not like state schools are a lot better.

Anyway, discussion for a different spot. I'll just say we've been spoiled the last decade with W&L soccer teams. This team doesn't seem to have the same talent, or at least the same ability to win games. Down years happen almost everywhere. I think it will be ODAC tournament champs or no post season for the Generals for the first time since 2014 (not counting COVID).

Have heard this from others about the current cost for W&L.  As my son is looking at schools now I am seeing what you say jknezek.  Filling out net price calculators with academics and finances as inputs feels like playing slots--hit the submit button and hope for 3 bars! I don't understand this model as it makes it difficult to compare one school to another.  Maybe this is the intent.  I may have some more questions on this front as cost will obviously be an important part of his decision.  I hear times are tough for recent grads these days, so he doesn't need an additional loan payment burden if we can help it.

I'm also looking at endowments for purposes of longevity.  The trend of schools closing their doors is a concern.  I notice W&L actually has a substantial endowment (20th on a list for endowment per student) which makes me wonder if there is any endowment interplay with tuition somehow.

PS the fraternity was Beta, and my visits there would have been 90-92 when Dave lived in Charlottesville and his band was apparently making the college circuits.  The visits were reciprocated when my W&L friends would visit the me on the Hill during Lehigh-Lafayette weekend.  Some great stories that I won't share here...

[WUPHF]

Filling out net price calculators with academics and finances as inputs feels like playing slots--hit the submit button and hope for 3 bars! I don't understand this model as it makes it difficult to compare one school to another.  Maybe this is the intent.  I may have some more questions on this front as cost will obviously be an important part of his decision.  I hear times are tough for recent grads these days, so he doesn't need an additional loan payment burden if we can help it.

The net price calculators exist mostly because of a Department of Education mandate.

I am not sure most institutions would have them otherwise.

I imagine they will get better eventually with AI though.