2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[SierraFD3soccer]

What exactly is underlying the gripe on assists?  Is there an implication that someone is benefitting inappropriately...like getting away with something?

I agree with this.  Whether it is American/unfootball, who is to say.  Maybe it is appropriate to award some left or right back who hustles his tail down the flank time after time to make a great cross for an easy header. Back in the day, some lughead like me playing back would get 5 yards beyond the midfield before the coach would yell at me to get back.  Or that really, really good holding back/midfielder whose role may not be to score makes that crucial pass that no one could even imagine coming when it splits the defender so that the stiker just has to run onto it. Every assist may not be like this in that the striker had to do a bunch more to score.  I would think that is the exception in D3 soccer which is not known for many great strikers (or at least recently).

FYI, on the first F&M goal with 13 min remaining and during the run of play was made when player over on the right side swung it to the left side where that left back had hustled forward enough to be close to the Stevens endline so he was able one time center a very smooth pass the striker. They did not give a "second" assist to the person who swung it to the left back. The one timer by the left back was so well placed for the on coming striker that he easily pushed it into the net. I think the left back's play deserved some recognition. See link to highlight below.

Also you could argue that both F&M goals deserved a second assist, but the scorer chose to only award the second assist to the person who took the free kick. Ball never hit the ground till the back of the net on the second goal. You will see that was a perfect strike to the player on the left side and he only had to slightly adjust his position while the ball was in the air.  The striker who scored has a great knack for scoring goals with his head and outmaneuvered the Stevens player.   

https://www.hudl.com/video/2/222578/64f3fad38cdefb0410dd5d04

Keepers still get saves when a "shot" is not even close to threatening. It just had to be on goal. Keepers get no credit on the stat sheet when they go up and catch (SimpleCoach's favorite technique) or punch great crosses in the middle of traffic while getting wrecked on the way down. 

No stat is going to be perfect. Subjectivity does play a part, but not giving a second assist on the 1st goal cuts against many of the people's arguments as to the home town scorer.

[soccerpapa]

Kuiper said it so much more eloquently than I ever could have.

here is my gripe (if you want to call it that) - it just rubs me wrong when I hear "so and so had X goals and X assists they should have been All conference/region/american" implying others with less robust stats shouldn't have.  This leaves off those that make the plays that don't show up in the stats.  Add questionable "2nd assists" and this is only compounded.   

[PaulNewman]

Kuiper said it so much more eloquently than I ever could have.

here is my gripe (if you want to call it that) - it just rubs me wrong when I hear "so and so had X goals and X assists they should have been All conference/region/american" implying others with less robust stats shouldn't have.  This leaves off those that make the plays that don't show up in the stats.  Add questionable "2nd assists" and this is only compounded.

Appreciate the additional explanation.

It's interesting to me because 6-8 years ago there were notable complaints from a few NESCAC folks that some of their best players missed out on national awards because of deceptive stats caused by a combo of the shorter NESCAC season and less scoring because of the overall quality of NESCAC defenses. 

I think that concern has diminished because even though NESCAC always has had the most active thread on the site and garnered a ton of attention, it's really been in the last 3-4 years that most of us who hang out here have fully accepted the dominance of the conference.  And while it's unrealistic to think that more than a few here truly have knowledge across the D3 landscape, I think it's also harder for a phenomenal player at say, a Milwaukee School of Engineering (MSOE), to go unnoticed.    Finally, my sense is that coaches have a large say in awards...certainly at the conference level but probably also nationally.  Sorry, will also add that if any school's official scorer is dramatically out of line that this info would become known over time.  It's rare to see players listed with 3 goals and 18 assists.  Usually there is a little more symmetry., and usually when we see a player especially at D3's "power 5" schools with gaudy stats we've already identified that player as a stud.

[EnmoreCat]

I know it's the players' welfare that we are most concerned with, given the nature of D3 scheduling, but just a special shout out to the regular posters here.  Some of you have started with a real intensity, I am just hoping you will be able to keep it up.  In the  national tournament of D3 pundits, it feels like some of the AQ spots are already spoken for.  My only worry is that some of you, like some of the teams mentioned, could be guilty of peaking too early.  There is a real risk of over-interpreting outcomes, literally after week one, essentially because we have been starved of games.  It's a long season people, stay the course. 

[PaulNewman]

PN's Petty-Party Corner


Time-wasting...

GK's are the "most skilled" at this...but the nonsense that happens to get a throw-in accomplished is a strong second.  And the nonsense seems to be starting earlier and earlier.  I happened to notice one game where the GK started catching slow rollers and falling to the ground on top of the ball with no opponents within 25 yards with 30 minutes left IN THE FIRST HALF!  Wait as long as possible to touch the ball, then fall on it and stay on the ground for 10 seconds, slowly get up, and then take another 15 seconds to punt, throw, or lay the ball back down on the ground.  Over the course of the match I bet he bled 10-12 minutes out of the game. And the throw-in delays joined in at the beginning of the second half.  Referees of course could put a stop to this stuff quite easily.

[PaulNewman]

I know it's the players' welfare that we are most concerned with, given the nature of D3 scheduling, but just a special shout out to the regular posters here.  Some of you have started with a real intensity, I am just hoping you will be able to keep it up.  In the  national tournament of D3 pundits, it feels like some of the AQ spots are already spoken for.  My only worry is that some of you, like some of the teams mentioned, could be guilty of peaking too early.  There is a real risk of over-interpreting outcomes, literally after week one, essentially because we have been starved of games.  It's a long season people, stay the course.

OK, I'll indulge...while I still have some 'real intensity.'

Your 'only worry'?  'A real risk'?  Like what are you worried could happen?  Seriously, what is your worst case scenario? 

As for D3 pundit AQs, they are free and unlimited.  Grab one on the big table just outside the door if you wish.  You will be instantly deputized and bestowed with all the perks and resources that the rest of us in our very exclusive club enjoy.

P.S. If you're going to spend a large portion of your days and nights hanging out on the board why not post?  I mean, beyond being quizzical about why others are posting on a posting board?

[Gregory Sager]

[Kuiper]

Three games in and Washington & Lee still hasn't scored a goal.  0-0 tie to Stockton.  It's not like they aren't getting shots (14), shots on goal (6), or corner kicks (8). 

I guess the good news is W&L's defense is doing well (Stockton scored 4 against Centenary of NJ).

[SierraFD3soccer]

Three games in and Washington & Lee still hasn't scored a goal.  0-0 tie to Stockton.  It's not like they aren't getting shots (14), shots on goal (6), or corner kicks (8). 

I guess the good news is W&L's defense is doing well (Stockton scored 4 against Centenary of NJ).

Watched game and would that while both had excellent chances, W&L had the better. Need a finisher.

[SimpleCoach]

Three games in and Washington & Lee still hasn't scored a goal.  0-0 tie to Stockton.  It's not like they aren't getting shots (14), shots on goal (6), or corner kicks (8). 

I guess the good news is W&L's defense is doing well (Stockton scored 4 against Centenary of NJ).

Watched game and would that while both had excellent chances, W&L had the better. Need a finisher.

Just thought they were imprecise in the final third.

SC.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Three games in and Washington & Lee still hasn't scored a goal.  0-0 tie to Stockton.  It's not like they aren't getting shots (14), shots on goal (6), or corner kicks (8). 

I guess the good news is W&L's defense is doing well (Stockton scored 4 against Centenary of NJ).

Watched game and would that while both had excellent chances, W&L had the better. Need a finisher.

Just thought they were imprecise in the final third.

SC.

The story of D3 soccer unfortunately. Sure rasor thin margins. W&L could be 3-0,  0-3, 1-1-1 all very possible results. I think no OT may be hurting some teams more than others.

[SimpleCoach]

Three games in and Washington & Lee still hasn't scored a goal.  0-0 tie to Stockton.  It's not like they aren't getting shots (14), shots on goal (6), or corner kicks (8). 

I guess the good news is W&L's defense is doing well (Stockton scored 4 against Centenary of NJ).

Watched game and would that while both had excellent chances, W&L had the better. Need a finisher.

Just thought they were imprecise in the final third.

SC.

The story of D3 soccer unfortunately. Sure rasor thin margins. W&L could be 3-0,  0-3, 1-1-1 all very possible results. I think no OT may be hurting some teams more than others.

Agreed.  Also thought they were a bit flat. 

SC.

[Another Mom]

I was at the game. I know Coach Singleton is pleased that the defense has only given up one goal in three games. The offense isn't quite clicking. They are integrating some new first years and the team hasn't completely jelled yet. Given Coach Singleton is also a professor of sports psychology,  I am confident the pieces will come together.

My son is playing a different position than the one he played at W&L for the past two years, so that's fun too.

[Ejay]

I was at the game. I know Coach Singleton is pleased that the defense has only given up one goal in three games. The offense isn't quite clicking. They are integrating some new first years and the team hasn't completely jelled yet. Given Coach Singleton is also a professor of sports psychology,  I am confident the pieces will come together.

My son is playing a different position than the one he played at W&L for the past two years, so that's fun too.

And he's getting great time too. That's gotta be fun to watch as well. Good luck this season.

[Falconer]

Big SNIP ...

It's rare to see players listed with 3 goals and 18 assists.  Usually there is a little more symmetry., and usually when we see a player especially at D3's "power 5" schools with gaudy stats we've already identified that player as a stud.

Interesting point.

Just to see what I'd find, I looked up all of the 30 G / 30 A players in Messiah history. Here's the full list:

Geoff Pezon (07-10)  54   46
Jim Blouch (78-81)   63   31
Jeremy Payne (11-14)   61   31
Dave Brandt (81-84)   55   35
Jack Thompson (11-14)   35   50
Jake Sauer (99-02)   39   36
Marlin Benedict (72-75)   31   30

Presumably, all of these guys were very good, and all those I've seen were "studs." I never saw Blouch, but I met him once and Layton Shoemaker thought he might have been the fastest player he ever coached. I know nothing about Benedict; if anyone does, please weigh in. Nor did I see Brandt in real games, though I often saw him in pickup games indoors when he was an assistant coach. Just a great all-around player.

I did see the other four many times. Most here probably don't remember Sauer, a winger whose free kick won the national final 1-0 over Otterbein in the snow at St Lawrence for the Falcons' first title. Saint of Old might have seen that in person. As the numbers indicate, he was really good at sending balls across the goal mouth. PN and several others here saw Thompson, perhaps the greatest 1/v/1 winger in Falcon history. He had an amazing ability to break people down and to find the open man that his motion just created. Not too surprising that he's the only player on this list with more assists than goals, and it's not that close. Pezon got a ton of his assists on corner kicks, especially to the head of Josh Wood, but he was also dynamite in the open field--fast, very quick to maneuver, and left footed (like Thompson). Payne tended to get "easy" assists in front of the goal.

As an afterthought, I looked up Kent Kelly, who played just 3 years starting in 1977 (apparently missed a full season to injury?). He had 61 and 23. Had he played all four years, he'd probably be the all-time leading scorer at Messiah. Dave Brandt matched his point total in 4 years, and the great Nick West was 7 behind them. I never saw Kelly play for the Falcons—I lived in Philly back then. However, I saw him often in high school, where he was a starting point guard in basketball as well as a soccer star, because my wife was his English teacher. He could pass behind his back in both sports, as it were. Like Brandt, he was short, quick, and smart. Yet, he wasn't actually the best player on his HS team--that would be a boy born in Brazil, who liked bicycle kicks and went D1.

So, I have to agree with PN: at least for the best players in D3, consistently having more assists than goals is uncommon. It says something not only about a player's position, but also his style of play.