2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Kuiper]

Here's a link to video of Cal Lutheran's fantastic buzzer beater goal to tie it up against Claremont-Mudd-Scripps. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CxKIWq5rInJ/

[Ejay]

To F&M's credit, they are one of the best programs in the country at winning close games and grinding out wins.  The style of play and the bench antics has drawn a lot of negative attention/detractors (of which I am probably one) but the results are the results.

Let's dial back the F&M accolades. They've won 2 conference championships in 17 tries and are usually good for a 1st/2nd round exit in the NCAA's.  Their sideline antics are annoying and their attempts on the field to get into opponents heads is often classless. I've seen them multiple times and it's not a program I can respect.

[camosfan]

They are somewhat like Montclair, always coming in short of preseason expectations!

[Ejay]

They are somewhat like Montclair, always coming in short of preseason expectations!

And they both play very direct styles. Hmmmm...

[PaulNewman]

I'm sure my memory fails me, but I don't recall these narratives about F&M coming out during the 10+ years Amherst has been taking a beating for behavior.  It's easy (and to some degree quite fair) to point out that F&M has fallen short in the NCAA tourney.  The thing is....the Diplomats are always there to be able to lose a 1st, 2nd, or Sweet 16 game.  They've had at least a couple of Elite 8 too I believe.  One of the longest consecutive NCAA tourney appearances in the country.

[SierraFD3soccer]

I'm sure my memory fails me, but I don't recall these narratives about F&M coming out during the 10+ years Amherst has been taking a beating for behavior.  It's easy (and to some degree quite fair) to point out that F&M has fallen short in the NCAA tourney.  The thing is....the Diplomats are always there to be able to lose a 1st, 2nd, or Sweet 16 game.  They've had at least a couple of Elite 8 too I believe.  One of the longest consecutive NCAA tourney appearances in the country.

When I get in front of a computer I'll definitely address the valid points from people outside the program's criticism. Son just graduated from the college.

[D3SoccerTalker]

You know, as much as I dislike the "rah, rah, rah" mentality featured in F&M/NESCAC culture, it is effective at times. Now for longevity of play/success, that is where I would call into question, but thinking that these squads do not have one-off success years is no question. Amherst, Tufts, Williams have been brilliant and nightmares to play against in past years. Style/aesthetic of play aside, it works and can get results, but this style of play will unfortunately cause you to have some killer dropped results in conference. It is a give and take obviously.

[Hopkins92]

I'm sure my memory fails me, but I don't recall these narratives about F&M coming out during the 10+ years Amherst has been taking a beating for behavior.  It's easy (and to some degree quite fair) to point out that F&M has fallen short in the NCAA tourney.  The thing is....the Diplomats are always there to be able to lose a 1st, 2nd, or Sweet 16 game.  They've had at least a couple of Elite 8 too I believe.  One of the longest consecutive NCAA tourney appearances in the country.

When I get in front of a computer I'll definitely address the valid points from people outside the program's criticism. Son just graduated from the college.

You've been a pretty objective poster IMO, so curious to see your post.

I know that I have been critical of the F&M bench stuff, but I have been impressed with the way F&M's coach appears to adjust their style of play depending on who he as on the roster and/or the opponent he is playing. They certainly have a plan against Hopkins that is different than others I've seen them play (for those not paying close attention, Hopkins plays a high possession game and even when opponents are trying to wheel-lock them in to one side of the field, they can be reluctant to break that style... The Dips are fully aware and seem to try and bait them into certain actions with their press.)

[SierraFD3soccer]

To F&M's credit, they are one of the best programs in the country at winning close games and grinding out wins.  The style of play and the bench antics has drawn a lot of negative attention/detractors (of which I am probably one) but the results are the results.

Let's dial back the F&M accolades. They've won 2 conference championships in 17 tries and are usually good for a 1st/2nd round exit in the NCAA's.  Their sideline antics are annoying and their attempts on the field to get into opponents heads is often classless. I've seen them multiple times and it's not a program I can respect.

All true and definitely valid criticism. I can agree with both.  Some might say that F&M is the Williams of the Centennial Conference but with less success.

This is from the perspective of a parent who's son played his last two years at F&M as a co-captain his junior year and sole captain last year. Starting with the F&M's sideline squad, I can definitely see how this can be seen as antics from the outside and probably by all objective metrics be considered disrespectful and irking.  For me, it did not strike me the same way, but coming from Maryland many lacrosse squads are similar.  Also, if you ever see a Univ. of Maryland soccer match, you will see students standing directly behind the opposition defense and engage.

As to the F&M team, they never sit on the sidelines and are actively engaged in watching the play while cheering. During HS and some college games, many teams and fans would call out my son as the keeper which my son actually loved.  One Cent. Conf. team fans actually did some research and used my wife's and daughter's names during matches in not a particularly pleasant manner. Probably fair game. As a note, many teams' benches do not sit during matches as well, but may not be as active. During many games, when my son made a play, his bench would taunt him by drawing out his last name over and over and over which we all thought was hilarious and so did he. Senior banquet they did it again. Things the bench would do as to cheers would be when a ball went out and it was F&M's they would all yell "That a way" and wave at that direction in unison.  Also on fouls on a F&M player, sometimes they would say "You can't do that" several times.  Ultimately, the bench was always involved and into the game. Maybe to an extreme and not fun for anybody not for F&M, but the team was a team.

To build on the team aspect, in the first three games of this season all but two field players and the backup keeper played in these. That's 27 players over these games and each game was a one goal win.  Two of the games they had to come back and score twice in at least the last 20 minutes. A lot of trust by the coaches and kids coming off the bench to deliver. FYI, by the 4th game all rostered players played.  Many coaches at most levels will not do this especially on high level teams which have big expectations each year. Most coaches down from my experience substantially tighten up their rotations Also note that many coaches have one or more reliable backs that never come off the field at any point. Not the case for F&M.
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As to success or lack of success, F&M has only had 2 Centennial Conf. tournament titles and over the last nine years gone to the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 once while the remaining times lost in the second or first round - last three years in the second round and twice, including last year, lost in pks. Last year, F&M won the regular season Cent. Conf. title with a record of 7-0-2 and beat Hopkins for its only loss in regular time all season. (Some will say that goal was lucky, but Hopkins could not capitalize on some of their opportunities. Or some will say that F&M played crap soccer which I would not deny, but they were effective and stuck to their game plan).  It is what it is, which is soccer and how tough and exacting it can be.  However, how many teams would love to go to 9 straight NCAA tournaments? Kids come to programs to play and have success while having a good time. Objectively, the coaches provide those opportunities.

Another thing, people can't see from the outside is what actually goes on in programs. We as a family have had to experience a whole lot over my son's career. Long, long, long story, but he actually went through the recruitment process three times which was had a lot to do with the fact that we are a family with limited means and little tolerance for incurring crippling college debt. He ended one of the very few transfers to F&M.  He's been the only one over the last three years and he definitely had to earn his playing time. He had also pass very close scrutiny by the coaches and F&M network before he could come. Long discussions between him and the coaches. Before coming to F&M and when he was accepted, he was playing chess online with the head coach during Covid. Outside of F&M and maybe two other programs, he did not come back with any great feelings from many coaches and programs.  Not saying there aren't any others, but in the D1/D3 there are probably only a few in my opinion.

F&M for him and the other teammates the experience is pretty unique from what I can tell.  The teams doesn't stop at the end of the season or even at the end of their college career. They choose to live and study with each other. Son as a captain worked his teammates the other 9 months of the year helping them navigate the college experience and live up to the team standard.  The team is not only incredibly close, but it does not end at graduation. The alumni network willingly gives back to the program and not just financially.  Much more in ways of mentorship during the season (from what I can tell alumni are actively involved during season working with players and their player groups). Involved in internships as well as career counseling is big part of the F&M soccer experience. Senior year, the team had a career conference where young soccer alumni came back and discussed their journeys and met with them in small groups. Also, networking for jobs and connections post college play a role.

Overall and in my mind, it is what you would want your son to experience becoming a man and moving on into a successful future. They also had a lot of fun along the way. Son is now in Denver area working at Cigna's headquarters as an actuarial analysist in its Actuarial Executive Development Program. High level math sh*t that as a lowly lawyer concerning which I have very little knowledge. All I can ask.

[PaulNewman]

Well done, Sierra.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Well done, Sierra.

Very kind and appreciate your analysis especially about teams I have no clue about.

[Hopkins92]

Thanks for all that Sierra. For the record, digging up mom and sister names is over the line.

Also, the first time I encountered the F&M bench, I found it to be disrespectful and unsportsmanlike. Then I sat back and looked at it objectively and... It can be very funny and it's relatively harmless.

I played baseball at a pretty high level... It might be out of boredom, but nothing the F&M bench does comes within a country mile of the things I've heard (and said) from a baseball bench. That stuff is brutal and VERY personal.

[jknezek]

I like Sierra's post. I think it is completely true we see things differently from the inside and the outside. We dismiss antics from our own teams and grind on antics from other teams, even when they are roughly the same b.s. That being said, the few games I've watched of F&M online it does seem excessive to me.

It's not anything I haven't seen other teams do, it's the constant quantity of their antics that annoys me. Now, would I care if I was on the field on an opposing team? No. You focus on the game and play hard. I'm in my mid-40s and still compete and judge taekwondo competitions. As an adult competitor there are competitors that annoy me, and there are spectators that annoy me. But once I step on the mat, that goes away. If you want to showboat a bit or muck around trying to win extra judgment calls, or waste time, or make contact seem worse than it is, that's your deal. The more you do it, the less I respect you, but I'm out there to win whether you are my favorite competitor or my least favorite, and I'm going to go as hard as I can against both types. As a judge, it's the same. I've had to throw out plenty of parents (usually the only spectators) for cruddy behavior, but I don't do it for the kind of generalized, irritating stuff that I've seen from F&M, it just doesn't rise to that level that I consider actionable. Irritating to other spectators? Gets under thinner skinned competitors? Maybe, but not even close to being a real problem.

So yeah, I find the antics a little extra, and combined with a generally direct style of play, it makes me less inclined to watch a F&M game. But D3 isn't about the spectators, it's for the student athletes. And a successful experience is a significant part of what student athletes are striving for. Anyone who doesn't think F&M is a successful program is being a little ridiculous.

There are 400+ D3 men's soccer teams, F&M is consistently among the top 50 if not top 25 every year, and more than a few years better than that. That puts them in the top 6-12% of D3 teams. I may think their antics and base style of play are irritating, but you are kidding yourself if you think they aren't among the most successful programs in D3 over quite a significant time period.

Now are they the top 1 or 2%? No, but that's not the limit for success I'm willing to draw. If you can spend a decade or two in the top 15-20% of D3 teams, roughly the top 60-80 programs, you are a legitimate successful D3 program in my opinion. If you can spend a decade in the top 10% of teams, the top 40, you are a great D3 program. If you can spend a decade in the top 5%, the top 20 teams, you are an outstanding D3 program. And if you can go deep in the tournament, elite 8 or better, 30% of a 10 year span, given the vagaries of soccer tournaments, you are the best of the best. F&M isn't at that last level, but I'd definitely put them in the great/outstanding categories.

[Hopkins92]

Yeah, totally agree with that assessment of success. There are a TON of teams that would trade places with their post-season success in a heartbeat.

[PaulNewman]

Yeah, totally agree with that assessment of success. There are a TON of teams that would trade places with their post-season success in a heartbeat.

Yes, for some reason I think of F&M perennially ending seasons ranked around #13 or #14...for a good decade or more...and I would I guess they ended up most years in the #12-#16 range or higher.  Very strong stretch of consistent success...very akin to Hopkins and Kenyon over a similar period, and just unable thus far to completely break through.