2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[GenerallyInterested]

Btw, while i agree with some of Generallyinterested observations about W&L losing a lot and being down a little, I don't think they belong off the national stage.  Why else was this considered such a huge, possibly breakthrough match for VWU?  I think of W&L, Hopkins, Kenyon, and St Olaf as all teams that have struggled to some degree but are far from dead yet.  And of course W&L WON the game...a game that had some hype around it on the road.

Why was this was considered a breakthrough match for VWU?  Based on polls at least weren't they the favorites?  Staying in the ODAC I watched Lynchburg dismantle a decent Hampden Sydney team tonight.  Not sure about the qualifications for a national stage but seems like they should earn a spot.

A few things...

1) It pains me that anyone is paying attention at all to USC rankings where posters try to figure out and rationalize how they came up with whatever they came up with.  There is nothing to figure out.  It's a very poorly done and highly distorted deal.

2)  Lynchburg has been on the national stage for a long time, as have W&L, Emory, CNU, and now Mary Wash.  Apologies if I missed one or two.  What Lynchburg needs is a poster or two who cares to post about the Hornets. 

3)  Are you suggesting that you didn't consider W&L the favorite?  Or that if VWU had won that wouldn't have been considered big?  I had to keep checking to see who actually won the game, and when Sierra posted that VWU was shelling W&L definitely seemed like he was trying to basically post an upset alert.  So yes, W&L was the favorite...by some distance...and I would guess they'd win 8 or at least 7 times out of 10 with a couple of the others being draws.  I realize you may vote "neither" but out of the two which team is more likely to make the NCAA tourney and do some damage...W&L, or VWU?  Just the last two seasons for W&L...Final Four, Sweet 16.

4)  I have absolutely nothing against GenerallyInterested, and I hope him or her keep posting...but are you f*&&ing kidding me?  You have three posts and two are directed at Another Mom and W&L.  Takes some hutzpah to register literally 10 days ago, post ONE time, and then play traffic cop directing where posters should post their posts.  And like I said, I think most would agree with your observations except for the tone of suggesting the season's lost.  Is Calvin off the national stage?  Hopkins?  St Olaf?  If Messiah loses two in a row, are they done?  North Park?  Like what is the cutoff threshold for being mentioned or discussed in the National thread?

5)  We're getting into the heart of the season and honestly the activity level here overall is tepid at best.  We need more posting rather than less.

PN - very fair argument, and as someone that has read and watched this far longer than I have posted  - I definitely agree with point 5 - not much action or excitement on here this season - maybe that reality was a catalyst for my comment.     Parity in D3 soccer seems to raise every year - which means that teams will encounter losses, and we should not always simply expect the usual suspects come tourney time.......Thanks for your comments back - hoping that we can elevate the debate through the season!!  Love this game, and love those that are passionate about it!

[EnmoreCat]

Can't believe I only just came across this National Perspectives thread, I thought the whole world revolved around NESCAC.

[camosfan]

 

[PaulNewman]

Thanks for your response.  I would just add that I think programs that have had very consistent success for 8-10 years need to prove over a longer period of time that the program has dipped.  I personally don't see that with W&L.  I don't necessarily agree with Another Mom about the issue being "want to," and they did lose players like Smith and Bass who are among the best to ever play for W&L.  But they do still have talent and one of the best coaches in D3.  I'd also caution that a few teams that started poorly and basically got written off recovered and made the NCAA tourney.  OWU was a prime example...starting something like 0-4-2 and then barely losing in the 2nd round to eventual Final Four squad Mary Wash.

[PaulNewman]

Can't believe I only just came across this National Perspectives thread, I thought the whole world revolved around NESCAC.

You are a piece of work 

The NESCAC basically dominates both threads...but at least those LL boys have quieted down lol.

[EnmoreCat]

Like you PN, I read everything, including LL (but maybe speed read through that).

[GenerallyInterested]

Thanks for your response.  I would just add that I think programs that have had very consistent success for 8-10 years need to prove over a longer period of time that the program has dipped.  I personally don't see that with W&L.  I don't necessarily agree with Another Mom about the issue being "want to," and they did lose players like Smith and Bass who are among the best to ever play for W&L.  But they do still have talent and one of the best coaches in D3.  I'd also caution that a few teams that started poorly and basically got written off recovered and made the NCAA tourney.  OWU was a prime example...starting something like 0-4-2 and then barely losing in the 2nd round to eventual Final Four squad Mary Wash.

Fair point - i think the long view is critical - and telling of programs.......AnotherMom - I hope we are still friends, and PN - Ill make sure to balance my short term need for excitement on the boards with a longer view.......Saying that - It would be great to see more posters engaging on behalf of their programs - would love the insight.....and the heightened debate!

[Another Mom]

We are definitely friends! Question: is your username wildly coincidental to W&L, or do you have a connection to the school/team?

I'm happy to share insights; the team still has Agbeyegbe, the ODAC Rookie of the year, and a high scorer in past seasons. And McCarty, who has great soccer IQ. Adler was hugely effective last year.  PJ Ryan is a 3 year starter, with accolades, etc, so although losing especially Kutsanzira as well as Bass and Smith is tough, as I say I still believe there's a lot of talent still on the roster. Plus a couple of the 1st years are making a mark, including Kaba, who scored last night's goal.

[PaulNewman]

Putting this here because didn't want to take the new poll off the page..

I wanted to comment on perceptions of that entity that hardly ever gets a mention...NESCAC.  In years past (think like 5-6+ years ago and earlier,) NESCAC fans often complained (and in hindsight with some good reason) that their teams were underrated in terms of polls, awards, etc.  I wonder if we're swinging a little too far in the other direction...six in the board poll with a 7th next in line in RV (Colby).  Poor Wesleyan...how come the Cardinals have been left out, which could get the number up to eight?

On another note, I find the customer base here interesting.  Most schools don't have anyone posting about them or on their behalf.  And those that do are usually limited to one or two who post regularly and "hang out" on the site a ton.  So when any of us are "the one" how did that come to be?  It's actually a tiny, tiny percentage of parents of teams and fans/alums who post here.  I assume many lurk without registering.  And it's so weird to see names online literally almost all day and night with no posts or very infrequently.  What are we all doing?  Hitting refresh over and over to see if there's a new post in a thread?  Obviously, I'm not criticizing, I mean how could I, but the dynamics of the self-selection process of who are here a lot are GenerallyInteresting to me haha.  There definitely is an intense addictive aspect (at least for me).

[jknezek]

On another note, I find the customer base here interesting.  Most schools don't have anyone posting about them or on their behalf.  And those that do are usually limited to one or two who post regularly and "hang out" on the site a ton.  So when any of us are "the one" how did that come to be?  It's actually a tiny, tiny percentage of parents of teams and fans/alums who post here.  I assume many lurk without registering.  And it's so weird to see names online literally almost all day and night with no posts or very infrequently.  What are we all doing?  Hitting refresh over and over to see if there's a new post in a thread?  Obviously, I'm not criticizing, I mean how could I, but the dynamics of the self-selection process of who are here a lot are GenerallyInteresting to me haha.  There definitely is an intense addictive aspect (at least for me).

I think, like most message boards, it's a bit intimidating. Maybe I'm a parent so I follow my kid's team, and maybe know a little bit about the conference. But how does that stack up to this conversation? Not real well. You could be a parent of an AMCC team, or a NAC team, maybe CUNYAC and, honestly, you realize that no one talks about those schools until the playoffs role around and we briefly mention how we think the champion is a sacrificial lamb. Well, 90% of D3 teams get little or no airtime on these boards except the occasional sacrificial lamb comment because they are, essentially, irrelevant. Even in the CC, a solid top to bottom conference, if you are a parent of half or more of the teams, what is there to say?

I am somewhat surprised we don't get more parents from the consistently quality teams, or recent grads. But message boards are... old school. I'm not sure how many people search for them or really care. You keep in touch with your community, the parents, your fellow alums, on Twitter (uggh, X) or maybe Facebook, but do you really want to come on here and get into the discussion? Very few do.

Now do they sometimes watch the discussion? Sure. I suspect lots peak in when their team, or their kid's team, is doing well. Just to see what's being said. But feeling like you have something to add takes 1) some serious self-confidence (sometimes arrogance) or 2) an axe to grind a bit. I think one of my very first posts, if not my first, which was on the football boards, was monumentally stupid and Pat Coleman quite rightly called me on it.

These boards, especially football, have been shrinking since I joined 15 years ago. Posters leave and are hardly ever replaced. I thank Pat Coleman for keeping the lights on. He may not visit these soccer boards much, but he's very active in football and basketball (maybe other areas, but I don't visit those real often). He's been great for D3 and I hope that somehow we can find a way to reinvigorate this community.

I kind of wondered if taking up a fund to do some advertising on D3 school athletic websites might help for the whole D3sports.com family. Clearly too late for D3soccer.com, which hasn't been a true part of that family for a while, but I feel like something needs to be done.

[Hopkins92]

So, yeah, interesting discussion.

Personal aside... I'm watching TV with The Wife last night and at some point I pop open the laptop to check on the Hopkins game. I skip-watch the game and then see it out live for the last 10... Still watching the show, but kind of spot checking the game. As soon as it ends, I hop over here and write a very brief summary (while she was on a bio break, mind you.) She comes back and says "oh boy, this again?" And, yeah, this again... I fully commit to this being a hobby of mine.

But, yeah, it's a pretty niche thing, to cover a D3 team and/or the conference or region they are in. I wouldn't expect this place to be flooded with posters. With that said, I wish more of the lurkers would come out. Especially parents* who have interesting insight that they could share without getting into hot water with info advantageous to their opponents.

* - I've had a handful of parents who don't really post much write me private messages either of appreciation or with insight that they can share but don't want out on these boards, which of course I respect.

[PaulNewman]

Thanks for that.

So it's either narcissism or vengeance, and in the worst cases both lol.

One example closer to you...Another Mom is the most frequent W&L poster.  Last year a couple of parents from the team contacted me and had some back and forth via private messaging if that's what they call it and some emailing.  I can assure you they did not lack in confidence (nor did they impress as narcissists I should add)...and one of them put together a post before W&L played Kenyon that analyzed the entire Kenyon starting 11 with detail and insight I could never approximate.  And Another Mom strikes me as neither a narcissist or vengeful.  She just happens to have a very soft spot for Amherst which drives me insane!  Other involved folks like yourself, Hopkins, Sierra, and even the great SC don't strike me as narcissists either.

And yes, I wonder why the high profile teams don't have more posting.  For starters, you would think almost every NESCAC would have a dozen or more...same for W&L, Kenyon, Calvin, North Park, Chicago (Maroons have a few), F&M, Montclair, Oneonta, etc, etc

[PaulNewman]

* - I've had a handful of parents who don't really post much write me private messages either of appreciation or with insight that they can share but don't want out on these boards, which of course I respect.

Same.

[Hopkins92]

I get a sense that in addition to the "don't provide the enemy intel," there is a confidence/intimidation thing going on.

With that said, this place used to have some pretty cantankerous exchanges and some personal conflagrations that... hoo boy... really turned me off from posting/participating.

Thankfully, most of that heat has dissipated. Even the "debate" around Amherst has settled into an "agree to disagree" tone that is at worst a civil discussion at this point. I also think the tone and atmosphere here doesn't really put up or allow for people to get nasty or to extend a heated discussion for too long. And people tend to try and be respectful of other perspectives.

I know I was coming on here slagging on F&M in my early days. I wouldn't say I've changed my tune 100 percent, but I certainly have more context for the program and an appreciation over the years of their consistent success.

[jknezek]

Thanks for that.

So it's either narcissism or vengeance, and in the worst cases both lol.

One example closer to you...Another Mom is the most frequent W&L poster.  Last year a couple of parents from the team contacted me and had some back and forth via private messaging if that's what they call it and some emailing.  I can assure you they did not lack in confidence...and one of them put together a post before W&L played Kenyon that analyzed the entire Kenyon starting 11 with detail and insight I could never approximate.  And Another Mom strikes me as neither a narcissist or vengeful.  She just happens to have a very soft spot for Amherst which drives me insane!  Other involved folks like yourself, Hopkins, Sierra, and even the great SC don't strike me as narcissists either.

And yes, I wonder why the high profile teams don't have more posting.  For starters, you would think almost every NESCAC would have a dozen or more...same for W&L, Kenyon, Calvin, North Park, Chicago (Maroons have a few), F&M, Montclair, Oneonta, etc, etc

Just for the first post. There has to be something that drives people to put themselves out in, what can be, an awkward way. After that it either becomes something of an addiction or you just don't do it again. Yes, I get emails also. I've been the lone consistent W&L poster on the football boards since I started. Sometimes someone comes on for a season or two, and then goes away again. Usually a parent. But no one has really stuck, and once the athlete graduates they all disappear to the next thing in life. As for soccer, Another Mom has way more insight into W&L than I have ever had, so I'm happy she is carrying the flag. Hopefully someone will join her and the chain can be carried forward in a few years.

Another Mom -- any thoughts on a parent of a first year you can badger for the future??? Just kidding, sort of.

One of the reason I'm not voting this year is I simply have too much going on to do the research. I'm happy you guys are putting in the time, and it's easy enough for me to put together the results, but I have neither the time nor desire to watch and consider Gustavus Adolphus vs St. Thomas (Tx). I've kept my eye on W&L, watched parts of two games, and read the posts just to keep my hand in. That's enough for me.