2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[College Soccer Observer]

Thoughts:

1.  Lack of a conference tournament does not prepare teams well for post season knockout play.
2.  Teams spread out across numerous regions, so they do not get a collective boost like the NESCAC or OAC teams did this year when those conferences dominate the rankings within one region. 

[PaulNewman]

For people who don't want to deal with more NESCAC related content I'm gonna move over here and ask what people's thoughts are on why the UAA isn't better. Obviously Chicago is elite but beyond that the conference constantly disappoints in the tournament. Brandeis used to be solid but has fallen off a cliff. All of the advantages talked about the NESCAC teams apply equally to these schools so what accounts for the difference?

I think many here would find your (and fellow NESCAC supporters) answers to that question far more interesting. 

What do you think accounts for the variance?  What is that special something that makes NESCAC schools NESCAC schools?  And do any of you ever resent your school not ever being thought of outside of the NESCAC identity...like its own unique institution?

[d4_Pace]

I honestly don't know. The schools being way harder doesn't hold much weight for me. I mean of all those schools the one with  the reputation for being hardest is Uchicago so while I wasn't smart enough to get in there, so the math doesn't add up for me. I haven't been to many of those schools so maybe the facilities and lack of investment in athletics is real, but they all seem to do well in the directors cup.

One aspect that could partially explain it is regional variance. Growing up in the south I felt like small private schools weren't given as much consideration. For example your school Davidson where I nearly committed, was never really spoken of pre Steph. Whereas I feel like the kids in Massachusetts all know and think about going to Amherst, Williams etc. So imagine the same thing is true for good players in Georgia and Missouri.

As a tangible example a kid like Calvin Aroh who was a top player on the revs academy and had D1 offers, the equivalent player on my academy team never would have considered going DIII. My academy team in NC had 18 kids go play D1 and I was one of two to play DIII. We had a bunch of guys who sat behind and didn't play in academy chose to go DI and never play there versus considering a DIII school where they could be impactful.

That's my current rambling take on it.

[College Soccer Observer]

A bit of history here.  I attended University of Chicago as a graduate student in the late 1980's through 1994.  During this time, the athletic programs across the board were pathetic.  The school made a conscious effort to improve the undergraduate experience, including upgrading athletic facilities, getting in quality coaches, and actively pursuing athletic success.  Once they did that, the school's pool of applicants expanded significantly, and the U of C became an appealing option to many suburban Chicago kids who were good students and athletes.  At the high achieving public school where I teach, large state universities (think B1G schools) are the preferred destination, and students who go to liberal arts colleges are the exception rather than the rule, so I think @d4_Pace is onto something here. 

[SKUD]

My thoughts:

1. UAA model is broken unless players really want to be on planes and busses every other weekend.

2. Many schools are in undesirable midwest, rust belt and northern-no-where cities.  (One could also say this about Brunswick, Waterville, Williamstown, Hamilton, Middlebury, Hartford, etc. but most of their facilities are 2nd to none)
3. The one outside of Boston has facilities that rival some middle schools
4  I think the one in NYC needs to bus players to practice.
5. The knock on Chicago from a recruits take:  to be able to compete in the classroom you would have a hard time devoting the time to athletics. As the academics are much more cut throat than the athletics and the athletics are very good there.

Feel like Emory would have the best of all worlds to dominate in this conference.

[Another Mom]

The soccer coach at Emory's Oxford campus has a theory that Emory's coach doesn't have to try very hard to recruit, unlike his New England counterparts, because there are many fewer d3 schools in the region. So he puts less effort into it.

I have always believed that good recruiting was indicative of a coach on his A game, and a coach on his A recruiting game was likely to be an A in other areas. Plus, of course, organized, excellent recruiting results in winning more excellent recruits.

Looking in from the outside,  Emory's head coach doesn't seem to be on his A game to me (Emory is the UAA school I'm most familiar with). This is only based on little bits of evidence, and I would be happy to be educated if the case is otherwise.

[Skipper]

Might be worth noting that on the women's side, the UAA sent 7 of 8 teams to the NCAA tournament, all 7 advanced past first game, and 3 will be in the sweet 16 this coming weekend.

Men sent 4, all 4 advanced past the first round, and the defending national champion will still be playing this weekend. I think the UAA is doing pretty well!

To the point of recruiting: Every school has different challenges - I'm willing to bet that being one of the few D3 schools in a region is a challenge for recruiting, not an advantage. "Less effort" is probably a misconception, too. That coaching staff probably receives an incredible amount of interest from prospective players, so their recruiting process is going to look entirely different from Emory Oxford's.

[Another Mom]

Oh, I wasn't comparing it to the Oxford campis, which barely recruits! I was comparing it to many of the NESCACs and similar schools.

[coach analytics]

Oh, I wasn't comparing it to the Oxford campis, which barely recruits! I was comparing it to many of the NESCACs and similar schools.

I do think work ethic in recruiting is a differentiator.

When I was involved in the US Development Academy club system, i would go to all the DA national events and would always see Serpone (Amherst head coach), Josh Shapiro (former Tufts head coach) and a bunch of other schools assistants.

[Freddyfud]

Another obvious constraint is budget which generally might be less of a challenge for UAAs and NESCACs when compared to other institutions.  Son is heading to MLS Next Fest in Phoenix 3 weeks from now.  For institutions attending this event clearly budget and effort are required especially as the post season isn't finished yet for some.  While I can't find a list yet of colleges attending here is a list for last year's event:

https://latdpelite.com/over-200-coaches-at-mls-next-fest/

You can see most of the NESCACs and a bunch of the UAAs including Emory attended plus a few others from other conferences. 

Edit:  and how could I forget to mention budget and effort on the part of parents 

[camosfan]

Another obvious constraint is budget which generally might be less of a challenge for UAAs and NESCACs when compared to other institutions.  Son is heading to MLS Next Fest in Phoenix 3 weeks from now.  For institutions attending this event clearly budget and effort are required especially as the post season isn't finished yet for some.  While I can't find a list yet of colleges attending here is a list for last year's event:

https://latdpelite.com/over-200-coaches-at-mls-next-fest/

You can see most of the NESCACs and a bunch of the UAAs including Emory attended plus a few others from other conferences. 

Edit:  and how could I forget to mention budget and effort on the part of parents 

Always tell people that the travelling is the most expensive part of the youth program.

[Kuiper]

Oh, I wasn't comparing it to the Oxford campis, which barely recruits! I was comparing it to many of the NESCACs and similar schools.

I do think work ethic in recruiting is a differentiator.

When I was involved in the US Development Academy club system, i would go to all the DA national events and would always see Serpone (Amherst head coach), Josh Shapiro (former Tufts head coach) and a bunch of other schools assistants.

In MLS Next national events, you will almost always see Serpone (Amherst) and Reuben Burk (Conn College) if their teams aren't playing.  Lots of coaches will come to one event a year, either one closer to their area or the summer event.  For example, Chris Apple from Rochester and Carter Poe from CWRU) are usually at the summer event.  There are some new head coaches who have been visible recently as well at multiple events - Edward Cartee (Claremont-Mudd-Scripps) and Kevin Brenner (Haverford).  Rod Lafaurie (Occidental) is at a lot of events too, but he coaches an MLS Next team.  Many other D3s are represented, but often by assistants rather than head coaches, and some skip it altogether and still recruit by video primarily and at local events.  I would say that Serpone and Burk are the most tireless among head coaches on the national recruiting circuit.  They are at MLS Next, ECNL, big tournaments at all levels etc.  They are often in on kids that have both D1 and D3 interest.

[Hopkins92]

I'm sure part of the equation for D3 schools going to the event are whether they think they have a national footprint.

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Color me a little puzzled about this discussion about the languishing UAA. We've pretty much established it as the second best conference in terms of top-to-bottom quality in the country. Sure, they have some challenges, but... One of them - travel - also means the conference itself is in much better position to send multiple teams due to that same factor (residing in a bunch of Regions.)

I thought I saw a break down of NCAA tournament conference records last year, but I'm too lazy to go find it.

[d4_Pace]

I don't think the UAA struggles by any means. But like you mentioned every year they send multiple teams to the tournament who get to play in different regions and don't have to knock each other out. And despite that Chicago is the only program that has demonstrated the ability to consistently make deep runs.

Wash U dominates on the women's side but constantly underwhelms on the men's side despite being very similar in profile to other top programs. Emory consistently underperforms. The only school for the conference that is better than I would expect is Rochester.

[PaulNewman]

Winding down and packing up for the season, but got intrigued to do a bit of research which I'll share with no particular take other than providing additional context...

NESCAC in NCAA Tourney since 2000...

2000 -- 1 E8, 0 FF
2001 -- 0 Sweet 16
2002 -- 2 Sw16, 0 E8
2003 -- 1 Sw16, 0 E8
2004 -- 1 Sw16, 1 E8, 0 FF
2005 -- 1 Sw16, 1 E8, 0 FF
2006 -- 1 Sw16, 0 E8
2007 -- 3 Sw16, 1 E8, 1 FF, 1 NC (Midd)
2008 -- 2 Sw16, 2 E8, 1 FF
2009 -- 2 Sw16, 1 E8, 1FF
2010 -- 3 Sw16, 2 E8, 1 FF
2011 -- 1 Sw16, 0 E8
2012 -- 2 Sw16, 2 E8, 1 FF
2013 -- 2 Sw16, 2 E8, 1 FF
2014 -- 2 Sw16, 1 E8, 1 FF, NC (Tufts)
2015 -- 2 Sw16, 1 E8, 1 FF, NC (Amh)
2016 -- 2 Sw16, 1 E8, 1 FF, NC (Tufts)
2017 -- 2 Sw16, 1 E8, 0 FF
2018 -- 2 Sw16, 1 E8, 1 FF, NC (Tufts)
2019 -- 3 Sw16, 3 E8, 2 FF, NC (Tufts)
2021 -- 4 Sw16, 4 E8, 2 FF, NC (Conn)
2022 -- 3 Sw16, 2 E8, 1 FF
2023 -- 4 Sw16,