2023 NCAA Tournament

[Another Mom]

Thanks @jknezek!!

Btw Tufts #4 is a heck of a defender.

[Bucket]

Middlebury rallies from an early two-goal deficit to beat Cortland, 4-2.

Two teams that know each other very well will face off tomorrow in an All-NESCAC Elite Eight matchup.

[jknezek]

Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

I watched it more than a dozen times on YouTube but just can't get a clear frame of the defender touching the offensive player.

I definitely don't see him getting the front foot, it's very clear between 145:19-20 that the front foot is up and over the defender. There was no chance for contact on the front foot.

In that same time period the ball is past the defender's foot, so it's also clear to me he doesn't get the ball as I agree the trajectory doesn't change. I did get a frame on a lucky pause where the foot looks like it hits the ball, but the camera angle would lead to that conclusion as well, as would the Ref's positioning looking straight down the line at ball and defender's foot, so you'd have to go by trajectory from the angle and by how quick the ref makes the signal, I don't think he looked at where the ball went.

I can't tell if the defender touched the offensive player's back foot or not. There was no lucky pause that showed me that split second. A little before, a little after, nothing spot on despite multiple attempts. But the fall, which is essentially a face plant, is exactly what I'd expect to see if the back foot is touched while the body continues on. No coincidentally, it's also how I would sell a dive as an offensive player on that play.

Heck of a call not to make at that point in the game, heck of a call to make at that point of the game. If you aren't sure, you don't call it. It's also worth noting the assistant ref also makes no move with his flag like he's intending to call a foul. It stays completely down and he just continues on running with the ball as it is cleared. To be fair, the ref made the no-call motion really fast, so maybe the assistant would have had more reaction given a bit more time, but the ref was very definitive very quickly.

I'm not sure I'd describe a penalty as "clear as day", but even as a W&L fan, I'd say the video evidence points to the Generals getting a favorable call. On the balance, not touching the ball is kind of a key factor, even if I'm not positive there was player to player contact, though I'd say the evidence favors it.

Again, I suspect from the position of the ref, and the camera, with foot coming straight at the ball, it may have looked like the defender got it and the ref made his decision based on an angle that was imperfect.

Tough call in a split second.

[Newenglander]

Silvester saves 2 more in PK's - Conn through

[d4_Pace]

Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

I watched it more than a dozen times on YouTube but just can't get a clear frame of the defender touching the offensive player.

I definitely don't see him getting the front foot, it's very clear between 145:19-20 that the front foot is up and over the defender. There was no chance for contact on the front foot.

In that same time period the ball is past the defender's foot, so it's also clear to me he doesn't get the ball as I agree the trajectory doesn't change. I did get a frame on a lucky pause where the foot looks like it hits the ball, but the camera angle would lead to that conclusion as well, as would the Ref's positioning looking straight down the line at ball and defender's foot, so you'd have to go by trajectory from the angle and by how quick the ref makes the signal, I don't think he looked at where the ball went.

I can't tell if the defender touched the offensive player's back foot or not. There was no lucky pause that showed me that split second. A little before, a little after, nothing spot on despite multiple attempts. But the fall, which is essentially a face plant, is exactly what I'd expect to see if the back foot is touched while the body continues on. No coincidentally, it's also how I would sell a dive as an offensive player on that play.

Heck of a call not to make at that point in the game, heck of a call to make at that point of the game. If you aren't sure, you don't call it. It's also worth noting the assistant ref also makes no move with his flag like he's intending to call a foul. It stays completely down and he just continues on running with the ball as it is cleared. To be fair, the ref made the no-call motion really fast, so maybe the assistant would have had more reaction given a bit more time, but the ref was very definitive very quickly.

I'm not sure I'd describe a penalty as "clear as day", but even as a W&L fan, I'd say the video evidence points to the Generals getting a favorable call. On the balance, not touching the ball is kind of a key factor, even if I'm not positive there was player to player contact, though I'd say the evidence favors it.

Again, I suspect from the position of the ref, and the camera, with foot coming straight at the ball, it may have looked like the defender got it and the ref made his decision based on an angle that was imperfect.

Tough call in a split second.

I appreciate the fair analysis and I will try to respond in kind. I think the penalty incident could have either way as could have the goal that tufts scored that was called for being over the end line. Two 50/50 calls going against you sucks but ultimately that's not what decides games. I thought W&L were excellent and look a significantly improved team from when I watched them at Swarthmore a few years ago. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them go all the way and I'd certainly prefer that to any of the NESCAC teams winning it.

I think Tufts and Dez made a key step forward this year. I think the team really came together the second half of the year and ran off a good stretch of results. Only a small class of guys is leaving, and I'm glad that guys like Trainor, Shin and Visnick got a national title before leaving campus. I know it's not the theme of this thread but I think Tufts team will be much stronger next year and hopefully the senior class can get it done. I know this sucks, but spend this weekend with your teammates and see them through this and then the work starts Monday.

[PaulNewman]

I said 2-3 weeks ago that at least one team among W&L, Kenyon, and St Olaf would make the Final Four....big teams that had poor or slow starts to the season.  One is in...another may get in tomorrow.

Congrats to St Olaf and W&L today.

Can't imagine the mixed emotions for Travis Wall....but I'm sure he's very happy for his former players and his former asst coach.

Congrats to Midd for storming back.

Random take for the day....Reuben Burk is an incredible coach.

[PaulNewman]

And here I was telling all the W&L parents that the d3 boards gave us a 5% chance of winning . . .

Congrats, Another Mom.

Please go knock on the "only regionally relevant thread" and let the other sequestered W&L fans know it is safe to come out and enter the primary ballroom with heads held high.

[stlawus]

Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

Watched it again, don't know what alternate reality you're living in.  His cleat only got the ground on the follow through. He didn't get anything, ball or player, just tackled the air.  The frame by frame replay of this confirms it.   I know the NESCAC is always the victims in these games, but that was a superb no call by the ref. Not surprised he immediately waved it off as he had the full "open look" as they say in ref world.

[Buck O.]

Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

I watched it more than a dozen times on YouTube but just can't get a clear frame of the defender touching the offensive player.

I definitely don't see him getting the front foot, it's very clear between 145:19-20 that the front foot is up and over the defender. There was no chance for contact on the front foot.

In that same time period the ball is past the defender's foot, so it's also clear to me he doesn't get the ball as I agree the trajectory doesn't change. I did get a frame on a lucky pause where the foot looks like it hits the ball, but the camera angle would lead to that conclusion as well, as would the Ref's positioning looking straight down the line at ball and defender's foot, so you'd have to go by trajectory from the angle and by how quick the ref makes the signal, I don't think he looked at where the ball went.

I can't tell if the defender touched the offensive player's back foot or not. There was no lucky pause that showed me that split second. A little before, a little after, nothing spot on despite multiple attempts. But the fall, which is essentially a face plant, is exactly what I'd expect to see if the back foot is touched while the body continues on. No coincidentally, it's also how I would sell a dive as an offensive player on that play.

Heck of a call not to make at that point in the game, heck of a call to make at that point of the game. If you aren't sure, you don't call it. It's also worth noting the assistant ref also makes no move with his flag like he's intending to call a foul. It stays completely down and he just continues on running with the ball as it is cleared. To be fair, the ref made the no-call motion really fast, so maybe the assistant would have had more reaction given a bit more time, but the ref was very definitive very quickly.

I'm not sure I'd describe a penalty as "clear as day", but even as a W&L fan, I'd say the video evidence points to the Generals getting a favorable call. On the balance, not touching the ball is kind of a key factor, even if I'm not positive there was player to player contact, though I'd say the evidence favors it.

Again, I suspect from the position of the ref, and the camera, with foot coming straight at the ball, it may have looked like the defender got it and the ref made his decision based on an angle that was imperfect.

Tough call in a split second.

I appreciate the fair analysis and I will try to respond in kind. I think the penalty incident could have either way as could have the goal that tufts scored that was called for being over the end line.

Speaking as a disinterested observer who was at the game because I live in Medford, you and jknezek are right.  Contrary to others' assertions, it simply is not clear, one way or the other.  I have a screen grab on my computer screen right now (which I would post but it exceeds the max file size), and it's just not sharp enough to tell.  My personal opinion, if I base it solely on watching the video, is that it is more likely than not that Trainor was fouled; but the ref was a lot closer to the play than the cameraman, so I'm inclined to give his call some deference.

[Freddyfud]

Congratulations to Coach Dunshee and the Shoremen for reaching their first Elite 8.  Wasn't able to watch the whole game but caught the end when they were soaking wave after wave of Eagle attacks.  Goalkeeper Anthony Pinto had 11 saves and believe the announcer mentioned that was a career high for the senior.  What a time to step up!

[SierraFD3soccer]

And here I was telling all the W&L parents that the d3 boards gave us a 5% chance of winning . . .

Congrats, Another Mom.

Please go knock on the "only regionally relevant thread" and let the other sequestered W&L fans know it is safe to come out and enter the primary ballroom with heads held high.

Hahaha. It is a long season!  Some great games left!

[FBALLISLIFE]

Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

Wow, I just went back and watched it again frame by frame, fully expecting to see a foul.  The W&L defender did not appear to get the ball at all, but then also did not appear to touch the Tufts attacker either.  Referee was right there on the spot, and although I disagreed in real time, I have to say, I think he got it right.  Good sell by the Tufts attacker.  Even better on the referee.  But wow, you can't put yourself in that position if you are the W&L defender.

[coach analytics]

Phenomenal no call by the ref at the end of the Tufts-WL game.   Tufts wanted a penalty and he sold it well, but on the replay he wasn't even touched.

Please get your eyes checked. I am not sure what game you were watching but that penalty was clear as day. I saw it live on the stream and rewatched it multiple times. He gets zero ball, if he had gotten any of the ball it would have changed direction. His cleat does not go under 11's leg, it goes right into him.

https://tuftsjumbocast.com/. Minute 3:17 of the game or 1:45:15 of youtube video, if you want to see it yourself.

Wow, I just went back and watched it again frame by frame, fully expecting to see a foul.  The W&L defender did not appear to get the ball at all, but then also did not appear to touch the Tufts attacker either.  Referee was right there on the spot, and although I disagreed in real time, I have to say, I think he got it right.  Good sell by the Tufts attacker.  Even better on the referee.  But wow, you can't put yourself in that position if you are the W&L defender.

Wow - think there is some anti NESCAC bias here...the defender clearly makes an awkward challenge with his left foot coming in off the ground, never makes contact with the ball. They tufts player gets his back foot clipped when he is already  by the defender.   There is absolutely nothing in the Tufts player movement to indicate anything other than his progress was impeded by the late challenge.  PK should have been awarded.  I was 25 yards away and you could hear boot on boot.

Congrats to W&L on a victory and best of luck to them tomorrow but they got away with one there.

[PaulNewman]

Random note #456....

To underscore how PKs are a different beast....

Consider that Oscar Horwitz (F&M), Chris Schau (Calvin), and Amer Lukovic (Montclair) all missed their PKs...

There's an added pressure to being counted on as the guy who absolutely will be an absolute lock to make with the dread of what it will be like to miss as the guy who absolutely won't miss.  All three of the above misses were critical.

Btw, I didn't re-watch the Tufts play several times but watching live I was struck by two simultaneous thoughts...it looked like the Tufts player doing a quick acceleration speed rush into the box was perhaps hunting for some entanglement and indeed appeared to have been successful, but then secondly what stood out the very most on video is how swiftly the referee gave the safe signal as he was peering into the play head-on from not that far away.  The referee appeared to be in an ideal position to see the play and make a call and he did so about as confidently and definitively as you'll ever see...which of course doesn't necessarily mean he made the right call.  There was another play a few minutes before that the announcers commented on and on that one noted that Traynor had not protested the call very much.  I think that was where the ball supposedly went out of bounds before a little cross through the box with a goal.

[camosfan]

Congrats Another Mom! you have some real big talents.