2023 NCAA Tournament

[PaulNewman]

In the famous words of the noteworthy theologian, Gordon Ramsey, in every episode of Kitchen Nightmares....."SHUT IT DOWN! Now! SHUT IT DOWN!"

[Bucket]

I just saw one bad apple on that youtube video, but maybe my eyes aren't that good . . .

You missed Nuhu—yelling and waving? And Kalinauskus with the faux "well done" clap? And the 8-10 players with the taunting and waving? Again, none of this was a celebration with one's home fans, but taunts at Middlebury faithful, many of them parents.

I mean, if the line is drawn at crotch-grabbing and anything else is fair game, then I guess the bar is set as low as possible...

[northman]

Ha ha PaulNewman, no divided loyalties. I saw no evidence of the kind of behavior described when my son was being recruited. If what you all say is true, and I have no reason to doubt so many respected posters, then I too would find it deplorable. In fact were I an Amherst parent I would 100% be emailing the AD and College president,  saying the team's behavior is a discredit to the school.

Once there's a youtube compilation, I think all posters who are outraged should email the AD and president. The school needs to kopw that this behavior is unacceptable. So, guys, there is actually something each of you can do. (Not just complain anonymously on the board).

As for W&L, I was pretty sure they wouldn't make the Sweet 16, let alone advance. Colorado College played a good game, and their parents were a classy and friendly bunch.

Another Mom, congrats to the W&L team, your son, and to you as a dedicated and supportive parent.  Having gone on a journey (literally and figuratively) with my son's Bowdoin team to the Final Four in San Antonio in 2010, I can tell you that it is an experience to be savored...win or lose.

I also want to say that I've appreciated your posts...which have generally been thoughtful and reasonably objective.  Plus, I applaud you for fearlessly making your voice heard among a group of posters who I'm fairly certain are predominantly men.  Good luck to W&L in the Final Four!

[Another Mom]

Northman, aww thanks for your kind words.

As for the Amherst stuff, the waving etc is hard for someone not there to be sure of. Conceivably there could be another explanation, whereas the crotch grabbing is black and whote. And if the clapping is as ypu say, it does totally lack class, but I don't think rises to the level of anyone being willing to censure Serpone. Of course, maybe I'm wrong.

[PaulNewman]

I just saw one bad apple on that youtube video, but maybe my eyes aren't that good . . .

Didn't see Nuhu have to be physically restrained and redirected several times as he attempted to keep getting closer and going at the Midd fans?

The video doesn't include the Serpone sideline display that caused an 8-10 minute delay in the game.

This has been going on for well over a decade...at least 15 years...massive amounts of data and cross-confirmations from a very large and divergent group of people with numerous school affiliations have been presented over and over.  This isn't a close call.  The behavior is not an odd one-off...it's a feature of the program intentionally embedded within the program.  There aren't loose cannons within the program.  It's TAUGHT.  It seems highly, highly unlikely that a kid could play for Amherst and feel free to resist the cultish antics and demands of what it means to be a good teammate in that program.

[Hopkins92]

The guy grabbing his crotch should be, at a minimum, not allowed to travel to NC.

As others have said, there is something going on at Amherst that isn't "normal." Even if the opposing fans were giving the players the business, it's a very strange reaction after punching a ticket to the F4 to go over, as a team, to the opposing fans like that. It's definitely a culture thing. Us vs. Everybody, chip on your shoulder, constantly chippy in your style. That's all fine... Until you channel that into highly inappropriate and unsportsmanlike behavior.

With all of that said... I know folks feel strongly on here, especially those that have noted this culture and its problematic (at times) results. But I don't see a coach getting fired for that display. First off, there's another side to this in terms of what was going on with those fans. This wasn't done in a vacuum, I'm sure. There's no excuse for it, but I'd appreciate hearing what sparked that stuff.

[stlawus]

As one person who was at the game mentioned, Nuhu was making the same gesture in the first half.  As far as I could tell, none of the St. Thomas/TLU antics were off field/crowd related, yet both programs received a righteous amount of criticism for that game which also led to the dismissal of a head coach.  I'm not saying there needs to be a dismissal here, but this is in the broader context of the Serpone era.   I've seen SLU on the business end of very hostile crowds in losses, but I've never once seen a SLU player act that way after a game in response to fans even when it theoretically could have been justified.   This applies to most programs I've seen play.  What excuse does Amherst have?  And that's assuming anyone in the crowd did anything of equal measure.  Why is it through the hundreds of games I've watched for the past 13 years I've only ever seen one single team do this kind of stuff?  Again, this assumes anyone in the crowd did something equal, so why has no other program of note reacted to a crowd like that?

[Bucket]

Northman, aww thanks for your kind words.

As for the Amherst stuff, the waving etc is hard for someone not there to be sure of. Conceivably there could be another explanation, whereas the crotch grabbing is black and whote. And if the clapping is as ypu say, it does totally lack class, but I don't think rises to the level of anyone being willing to censure Serpone. Of course, maybe I'm wrong.

I've been there enough times to know exactly what was going on. Amherst did eventually go celebrate with their fans—who were way over on the opposite end of the field. There was no mistaking where each fan base was located. (And it was another poster, who was at the game, who noted at halftime that Nuhu had used the same gesture toward the Middlebury fan section earlier in the contest.)

And, fwiw, in all my posts I never called for Serpone to be censored (though I recognize others have); I was merely pointing out the utterly classless behavior of the players.

At some point, I'd love an explanation for the three-to-four minute stoppage of play toward the end of the first half, that included the center official confronting the Amherst bench and then huddling with on-site administrators for an extended period.

[camosfan]

I am somewhat surprised at Amherst, quite a few of the guys at Tufts have friends, they have played with or against on other NESCAC teams and tend to show respect after games. Good teams are humble after victory in a good contest!

[stlawus]

Northman, aww thanks for your kind words.

As for the Amherst stuff, the waving etc is hard for someone not there to be sure of. Conceivably there could be another explanation, whereas the crotch grabbing is black and whote. And if the clapping is as ypu say, it does totally lack class, but I don't think rises to the level of anyone being willing to censure Serpone. Of course, maybe I'm wrong.

I've been there enough times to know exactly what was going on. Amherst did eventually go celebrate with their fans—who were way over on the opposite end of the field. There was no mistaking where each fan base was located. (And it was another poster, who was at the game, who noted at halftime that Nuhu had used the same gesture toward the Middlebury fan section earlier in the contest.)

And, fwiw, in all my posts I never called for Serpone to be censored (though I recognize others have); I was merely pointing out the utterly classless behavior of the players.

At some point, I'd love an explanation for the three-to-four minute stoppage of play toward the end of the first half, that included the center official confronting the Amherst bench and then huddling with on-site administrators for an extended period.

Watching the replay it looks like Serpone wanted a few foul calls in the lead up to that stoppage, and acted accordingly. 

[Newenglander]

Northman, aww thanks for your kind words.

As for the Amherst stuff, the waving etc is hard for someone not there to be sure of. Conceivably there could be another explanation, whereas the crotch grabbing is black and whote. And if the clapping is as ypu say, it does totally lack class, but I don't think rises to the level of anyone being willing to censure Serpone. Of course, maybe I'm wrong.

I've been there enough times to know exactly what was going on. Amherst did eventually go celebrate with their fans—who were way over on the opposite end of the field. There was no mistaking where each fan base was located. (And it was another poster, who was at the game, who noted at halftime that Nuhu had used the same gesture toward the Middlebury fan section earlier in the contest.)

And, fwiw, in all my posts I never called for Serpone to be censored (though I recognize others have); I was merely pointing out the utterly classless behavior of the players.

At some point, I'd love an explanation for the three-to-four minute stoppage of play toward the end of the first half, that included the center official confronting the Amherst bench and then huddling with on-site administrators for an extended period.

if you've been there enough times then you most likely know the antics from the coaching staff that caused the stoppage....NCAA has advised referees to give cards to players for arguing - not sure how that hasn't translated

[Another Mom]

Agree it was classless. And I also wonder if what some posters have said about the team culture isn't spot on. My son played with Mo Nuhu on his high school and his club team. I've given Mo rides to games and practice, and he is a very good kid. Yes I did see him being redirected, and I would have said that behavior is out of character for him.

[Bucket]

I just saw one bad apple on that youtube video, but maybe my eyes aren't that good . . .

Didn't see Nuhu have to be physically restrained and redirected several times as he attempted to keep getting closer and going at the Midd fans?

The video doesn't include the Serpone sideline display that caused an 8-10 minute delay in the game.

This has been going on for well over a decade...at least 15 years...massive amounts of data and cross-confirmations from a very large and divergent group of people with numerous school affiliations have been presented over and over.  This isn't a close call.  The behavior is not an odd one-off...it's a feature of the program intentionally embedded within the program.  There aren't loose cannons within the program.  It's TAUGHT.  It seems highly, highly unlikely that a kid could play for Amherst and feel free to resist the cultish antics and demands of what it means to be a good teammate in that program.

Ada Okorogheye is the exception to this—Super nice guy, all class, and universally admired by opposing players, coaches, and fan bases who have watched him through the years. He has always been removed from these post-game antics, on-field chippiness, everything.

Everyone else, though? I tend to agree with you. And it doesn't take long for this to take hold, given that the phenomenally talented Nuhu is a first year.

[PaulNewman]

The guy grabbing his crotch should be, at a minimum, not allowed to travel to NC.

As others have said, there is something going on at Amherst that isn't "normal." Even if the opposing fans were giving the players the business, it's a very strange reaction after punching a ticket to the F4 to go over, as a team, to the opposing fans like that. It's definitely a culture thing. Us vs. Everybody, chip on your shoulder, constantly chippy in your style. That's all fine... Until you channel that into highly inappropriate and unsportsmanlike behavior.

With all of that said... I know folks feel strongly on here, especially those that have noted this culture and its problematic (at times) results. But I don't see a coach getting fired for that display. First off, there's another side to this in terms of what was going on with those fans. This wasn't done in a vacuum, I'm sure. There's no excuse for it, but I'd appreciate hearing what sparked that stuff.

Agreed.  I don't there is any chance Serpone gets fired or even "a stern talking to"....as though he doesn't absorb and dismiss the latter multiple times a game.

And you're also right that they likely were responding to some stick from the Midd crowd.. But the risk with that is each and every instance gets explained away.  There's always an apologist at the ready to compartmentalize anything negative as aberration and collude with a narrative that Amherst actually holds the rightful grievance as the ultimate victim of unfair targeting.  Rapal was cited for his behavior in the 1st round match.

400+ programs....and we're supposed to believe that it's a total coincidence or unfair targeting that we're yet again talking about Amherst coach and player behavior.

[camosfan]

Agree ,Ada is a nice person, I watch him absorbing the Tufts Alums antics at our games.