2023 NCAA Tournament

[College Soccer Observer]

From my perspective, the nightmare scenario was Amherst scoring first and then making the game ugly.  Midd was much better on turf with respect to passing and ball movement.  The Amherst field does not play to their strengths.  The loss of William O'Brien was a huge blow.  He did not play in any of the postseason games, and it is not an accident that both of their losses on the season came with him out of the line up.  Every team experiences injuries, but Midd lost two of their best players to season ending injuries in Farrell and O'Brien.  Amherst took away the combinations and attacks down the flanks that Midd had thrived on. 

[jknezek]

Nice to see the board is back up again. Sadly the weekend weather is looking less than cooperative.

Friday high 40s/low50s degrees with a 70% chance of rain
Sunday 50s with a 60% chance of rain.

The temps are fine, that chance of rain though. Cold drizzle is less than optimal.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Nice to see the board is back up again. Sadly the weekend weather is looking less than cooperative.

Friday high 40s/low50s degrees with a 70% chance of rain
Sunday 50s with a 60% chance of rain.

The temps are fine, that chance of rain though. Cold drizzle is less than optimal.

At least it will be on turf.

[SKUD]

Turf sucks

[SierraFD3soccer]

Turf sucks

Maybe so, but very few programs have decent grass fields like in the Eng. Premier League and most don't hold up through the season.

[jknezek]

While I don't like turf for soccer, Kerr Stadium is quite nice for a D3 facility. Given the weather, playing on a natural grass field could be very messy this weekend. I'd prefer that not to be a factor in these games, especially since, given the remaining teams in the field and what I know of their styles of play, I suspect Amherst would have the biggest advantage on a sloppy field.

[Hopkins92]

I'm old enough to have played on some truly terrible turf fields. Homewood's main requirement was that a lacrosse ball would roll smoothly, so for most of my time there the turf was basically like the plastic stuff folks would roll over their backyard patio. My junior consisted of 3-a-day training sessions and my hips and outside thighs were so chewed up I'd stick to the sheets at night.

So when I hear people complain about today's version of turf I can only shake my head ruefully.

Now get off my lawn.

[Kuiper]

I'm old enough to have played on some truly terrible turf fields. Homewood's main requirement was that a lacrosse ball would roll smoothly, so for most of my time there the turf was basically like the plastic stuff folks would roll over their backyard patio. My junior consisted of 3-a-day training sessions and my hips and outside thighs were so chewed up I'd stick to the sheets at night.

So when I hear people complain about today's version of turf I can only shake my head ruefully.

Now get off my lawn.

I'm with you. I played on Baldwin Wallace's Finnie Stadium turf in my youth back when it was a novelty. I would describe it as worse than the backyard patio turf. It was more like those welcome mats with sharpened blades and it was rolled on top off a concrete surface with no padding.  Today's version of artificial turf is heaven by comparison.

[Bucket]

I will understand if Midd fans abstain from responding, but despite Midd not necessarily being one of my favorite teams I do feel a weird kinship (perhaps family connections to VT and the town but mostly because of Kenyon), and I can feel the massive disappointment.  I wonder what folks affiliated with or who were there think happened.  I know some including Amherst noted the Amherst lockdown defense, but was there anything else?  Did having to come back from down 2-0 to Cortland take a toll?  Did Midd get too caught up in making sure they didn't get punked...and maybe lost a little focus? 

I thought it was a 50/50 deal with Amherst, but I thought Midd was going to get it done...exactly as I felt a few times with Kenyon, including last year after beating Calvin and W&L (7-1 on aggregate) back to back and only needing to get by Williams at home.  That Kenyon team last year was really, really good...like "best Kenyon team ever" and national title good...but unfortunately they just didn't get to what clearly seemed in reach.  It's a testament to how good Middlebury was to presume without any doubt that they are experiencing massive disappointment.

I would love to respond to this, but I'll wait until after the games this weekend. Rare moment of magnanimity from Bucket, ceding the spotlight to the four teams playing for a championship. 

[southsidejet]

I thought it was a 50/50 deal with Amherst, but I thought Midd was going to get it done...exactly as I felt a few times with Kenyon, including last year after beating Calvin and W&L (7-1 on aggregate) back to back and only needing to get by Williams at home.  That Kenyon team last year was really, really good...like "best Kenyon team ever" and national title good...but unfortunately they just didn't get to what clearly seemed in reach.  It's a testament to how good Middlebury was to presume without any doubt that they are experiencing massive disappointment.

There is more to being the 'best X team ever' than just winning games. How your players & coaches carry themselves before, during, and after games are part of the equation. Kenyon might have had some skill last year, but they didn't have the other 'stuff'. I know of a son of a Kenyon alum who ended up playing for Tufts this year (his freshman year) because his father was appalled at how the Kenyon soccer program carried itself in seasons prior. I'm sure we can say similar things about Amherst in recent years. They may have enough skill to win the title, but I would never consider a program like that 'the best ever' regardless of the results on the field. There is so much more to this sport (like many others) than simply putting the ball into the back of the net, or preventing it from happening. My two cents.

[PaulNewman]

I thought it was a 50/50 deal with Amherst, but I thought Midd was going to get it done...exactly as I felt a few times with Kenyon, including last year after beating Calvin and W&L (7-1 on aggregate) back to back and only needing to get by Williams at home.  That Kenyon team last year was really, really good...like "best Kenyon team ever" and national title good...but unfortunately they just didn't get to what clearly seemed in reach.  It's a testament to how good Middlebury was to presume without any doubt that they are experiencing massive disappointment.

There is more to being the 'best X team ever' than just winning games. How your players & coaches carry themselves before, during, and after games are part of the equation. Kenyon might have had some skill last year, but they didn't have the other 'stuff'. I know of a son of a Kenyon alum who ended up playing for Tufts this year (his freshman year) because his father was appalled at how the Kenyon soccer program carried itself in seasons prior. I'm sure we can say similar things about Amherst in recent years. They may have enough skill to win the title, but I would never consider a program like that 'the best ever' regardless of the results on the field. There is so much more to this sport (like many others) than simply putting the ball into the back of the net, or preventing it from happening. My two cents.

Obviously I could be wrong, southsidejet, but this felt a little random and opportunistic, like you've been holding on to irritation about Kenyon for a while and finally found what you thought was a nice avenue for expressing it.  In any case, a very interesting post.

First, I'm sure your friend is pleased that you brought him into the discussion.  Is that person the primary source of your take, or have you had your own observations?  What exactly did the parent hear or observe that was so noxious?  When you say Kenyon didn't have "the stuff" last year, what exactly is "the stuff"?  Kenyon was 19-1-1 heading into the Elite 8 game, so yes, a lot of winning and talent.  Four AAs, swept most of the top conference awards, and that doesn't account for two of the players who were on that team who won the top awards in NCAC and may be AAs this year.  You tell me how many teams would have beaten Calvin and W&L back to back.  So what was their downfall?  Please be as specific as you can about weaknesses and transgressions.  How has Kenyon "carried itself"?  You also said your friend's opinion was based on being appalled by prior years, so not exactly sure how that translates to last year's edition.

Let's temporarily agree that Kenyon is bereft of character and no parent should want to send a kid there.  What does that have to do with saying last year's team was in the running for "best Kenyon team ever"?  That statement would only apply in comparison to all of the Kenyon teams over the years....as there were no claims about "best ever" in comparison to any other programs around the country or regarding D3 in general. 

Putting Kenyon in the same category with Amherst seems a little much, given that the concerns about Amherst have been steady and constant, and in sync across dozens of posters linked to a multitude of schools all across the country just on this site for more than a decade.  Until your post, which is quite vague with no details, over the past 10 years I only recall two swipes at Kenyon on the behavior measure (as a program and not just an individual player), and both were made by one person immediately after Kenyon lost to Messiah in 2013 and 2021...and the swipes were just that Kenyon was too physical.  I've never seen a claim about Kenyon's behavior and character writ large, unless you're only referring to some not finding Coach Brown warm and fuzzy.  But in all seriousness, I'd like to know, and if there are legit complaints about Kenyon's behavior I also would like Coach Wall to know so that he can assess if anything needs to be addressed.  I am very willing to be critical (and have been) of my preferred school/team, and if there are issues that need to be addressed I am all for them coming into the light of day.  I'm serious.  Give us some details.

The comparison with Tufts also was interesting, as Tufts and Kenyon, while both great schools, are not really overlap schools.  Tufts is more like the UAAs and so someone who has Kenyon on their prospective list is more likely to also have Midd, Colby, Bates, Hamilton, Conn, etc among the NESCAC group rather than Tufts.  So maybe the kid (and his parents) just really liked and preferred Tufts...unless you're saying the kid wanted to go to Kenyon but didn't because the family was so exposed to the Kenyon toxicity.  On second read (see bold italics above in your post) you did say he went to Tufts BECAUSE of the father being appalled by the Kenyon soccer program, which would suggest he otherwise would have matriculated at Kenyon. 

As an aside, can you provide some color on JCU's late season struggles?  Why do you OAC folks prefer to talk about a team that bothers you so much instead of providing content about all the really good OAC programs?  I've talked up your schools way more than you guys have.  I was convinced that JCU was a top-tier serious contender, probably on par with a Middlebury.  Injuries?  Just not quite as good as we thought?  To come full circle, I truly thought JCU with a very senior-laden, experienced squad with very talented additions was going to be very similar to last year's Kenyon team. 

[FBALLISLIFE]

I thought it was a 50/50 deal with Amherst, but I thought Midd was going to get it done...exactly as I felt a few times with Kenyon, including last year after beating Calvin and W&L (7-1 on aggregate) back to back and only needing to get by Williams at home.  That Kenyon team last year was really, really good...like "best Kenyon team ever" and national title good...but unfortunately they just didn't get to what clearly seemed in reach.  It's a testament to how good Middlebury was to presume without any doubt that they are experiencing massive disappointment.

There is more to being the 'best X team ever' than just winning games. How your players & coaches carry themselves before, during, and after games are part of the equation. Kenyon might have had some skill last year, but they didn't have the other 'stuff'. I know of a son of a Kenyon alum who ended up playing for Tufts this year (his freshman year) because his father was appalled at how the Kenyon soccer program carried itself in seasons prior. I'm sure we can say similar things about Amherst in recent years. They may have enough skill to win the title, but I would never consider a program like that 'the best ever' regardless of the results on the field. There is so much more to this sport (like many others) than simply putting the ball into the back of the net, or preventing it from happening. My two cents.

I don't know, Southside, this seems a little out of left field to me.   When my (senior) son's team was beaten by Kenyon in the tournament last year, he was the next to last player to leave the field, no doubt finding it hard to swallow the emotion of a career suddenly ending on that Ohio pitch.  The last player to leave?  One of the Kenyon kids who stayed well past everyone else to console him.  It was quite a show of compassion and sportsmanship.

When we are talking about a "best [school] team ever," I think we are invariably talking about wins and championships.  If this year's W&L team were to win the tourney, we will very clearly be talking about them as the "best W&L team ever," but I have have always thought the 2020 version had the very best talent.  Difference is, this team is still winning.

As for whether I would want my kid to attend X school or play for Y coach, that's an entirely different matter.   

[camosfan]

The best team does not always win, everyone remembers that Dutch team in the World Cup, this year in NESCAC: the order for me is Mid, Conn, Tufts and then Amherst, yet Amherst is the last one standing and will win it all.

[paclassic89]

yet Amherst is the last one standing and will win it all.

[southsidejet]

I thought it was a 50/50 deal with Amherst, but I thought Midd was going to get it done...exactly as I felt a few times with Kenyon, including last year after beating Calvin and W&L (7-1 on aggregate) back to back and only needing to get by Williams at home.  That Kenyon team last year was really, really good...like "best Kenyon team ever" and national title good...but unfortunately they just didn't get to what clearly seemed in reach.  It's a testament to how good Middlebury was to presume without any doubt that they are experiencing massive disappointment.

There is more to being the 'best X team ever' than just winning games. How your players & coaches carry themselves before, during, and after games are part of the equation. Kenyon might have had some skill last year, but they didn't have the other 'stuff'. I know of a son of a Kenyon alum who ended up playing for Tufts this year (his freshman year) because his father was appalled at how the Kenyon soccer program carried itself in seasons prior. I'm sure we can say similar things about Amherst in recent years. They may have enough skill to win the title, but I would never consider a program like that 'the best ever' regardless of the results on the field. There is so much more to this sport (like many others) than simply putting the ball into the back of the net, or preventing it from happening. My two cents.

Obviously I could be wrong, southsidejet, but this felt a little random and opportunistic, like you've been holding on to irritation about Kenyon for a while and finally found what you thought was a nice avenue for expressing it.  In any case, a very interesting post.

First, I'm sure your friend is pleased that you brought him into the discussion.  Is that person the primary source of your take, or have you had your own observations?  What exactly did the parent hear or observe that was so noxious?  When you say Kenyon didn't have "the stuff" last year, what exactly is "the stuff"?  Kenyon was 19-1-1 heading into the Elite 8 game, so yes, a lot of winning and talent.  Four AAs, swept most of the top conference awards, and that doesn't account for two of the players who were on that team who won the top awards in NCAC and may be AAs this year.  You tell me how many teams would have beaten Calvin and W&L back to back.  So what was their downfall?  Please be as specific as you can about weaknesses and transgressions.  How has Kenyon "carried itself"?  You also said your friend's opinion was based on being appalled by prior years, so not exactly sure how that translates to last year's edition.

Let's temporarily agree that Kenyon is bereft of character and no parent should want to send a kid there.  What does that have to do with saying last year's team was in the running for "best Kenyon team ever"?  That statement would only apply in comparison to all of the Kenyon teams over the years....as there were no claims about "best ever" in comparison to any other programs around the country or regarding D3 in general. 

Putting Kenyon in the same category with Amherst seems a little much, given that the concerns about Amherst have been steady and constant, and in sync across dozens of posters linked to a multitude of schools all across the country just on this site for more than a decade.  Until your post, which is quite vague with no details, over the past 10 years I only recall two swipes at Kenyon on the behavior measure (as a program and not just an individual player), and both were made by one person immediately after Kenyon lost to Messiah in 2013 and 2021...and the swipes were just that Kenyon was too physical.  I've never seen a claim about Kenyon's behavior and character writ large, unless you're only referring to some not finding Coach Brown warm and fuzzy.  But in all seriousness, I'd like to know, and if there are legit complaints about Kenyon's behavior I also would like Coach Wall to know so that he can assess if anything needs to be addressed.  I am very willing to be critical (and have been) of my preferred school/team, and if there are issues that need to be addressed I am all for them coming into the light of day.  I'm serious.  Give us some details.

The comparison with Tufts also was interesting, as Tufts and Kenyon, while both great schools, are not really overlap schools.  Tufts is more like the UAAs and so someone who has Kenyon on their prospective list is more likely to also have Midd, Colby, Bates, Hamilton, Conn, etc among the NESCAC group rather than Tufts.  So maybe the kid (and his parents) just really liked and preferred Tufts...unless you're saying the kid wanted to go to Kenyon but didn't because the family was so exposed to the Kenyon toxicity.  On second read (see bold italics above in your post) you did say he went to Tufts BECAUSE of the father being appalled by the Kenyon soccer program, which would suggest he otherwise would have matriculated at Kenyon. 

As an aside, can you provide some color on JCU's late season struggles?  Why do you OAC folks prefer to talk about a team that bothers you so much instead of providing content about all the really good OAC programs?  I've talked up your schools way more than you guys have.  I was convinced that JCU was a top-tier serious contender, probably on par with a Middlebury.  Injuries?  Just not quite as good as we thought?  To come full circle, I truly thought JCU with a very senior-laden, experienced squad with very talented additions was going to be very similar to last year's Kenyon team.

Paul, I'll try to answer you questions:

Not really random, something between all of the earlier Amherst posts and then your post compelled me to respond. Let's just say a button was pushed. I'm a big believer of sportsmanship & maturity in college sports being just as important as wins. I attended last year's game in University Hts. and was shocked at how your players & coaches carried on after the game was over. There's something to say about winning with class, and this was pretty much the opposite. I didn't post about it when it happened, nor after the JCU win in Gambier this past fall. But, like I said, a button was pushed when I read 'best team ever' about that group.

Regarding the Kenyon alum who's son passed on Kenyon... not a friend but someone who approached me this season and volunteered his insight on multiple Kenyon games they had attended last year while his son was considering playing for them. He witnessed similar incidents at multiple games before they decided to pass. Perhaps this is why that head coach was no longer employed after such a great season?

If you read some of my posts from 4 years ago I DID give props to both your team's and OWU's style of play. I've played, coached, and watched thousands of games and am a bit of a futbol snob. College soccer rarely does it for me, too much kick ball & physicality, not enough 'beautiful game'. But those two squads could move the ball around and were enjoyable to watch.

I'll refrain from commenting on JCU's season, those boys gave it everything they had down the stretch. Suffice to say, outside of the second round loss to Mary Washington, injuries weren't an issue.