2024 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[PaulNewman]

Random drive-by of the site this morning and just stunned to find this discussion.

Agyemang is a great story.  Full stop.  The D3 angle is a fun, side element, especially to D3 fans like us, but in truth has only a very incidental relevance to the overall story.  This should NOT be a story about how self-perceived very savvy middle class and upper middle class parents guide their kids to the most advantageous financial and social outcomes.  Could a guy have gone to ITT Tech instead of college, or a more prestigious D3, or a full-scholly D1?  Would he already be making 85K as a high end mechanic for a trucking or RV company?  Really?

Is there anyone on the planet who believes Duncan Robinson and his parents had an extremely nuanced and brilliant strategy to get him to the Miami Heat and a long, lucrative career in the NBA by going to Williams as a way to get to Michigan as a way to get to the NBA.  No, no, no.  Absolutely not.  Oh, sure, but you said Williams, right?  What an opportunity...where you go with a 98% chance to graduate in 4 years with almost 400K of debt in exchange for a 100K+ job that projects to 1.5 million per year inside of 10 years?

First, kudos to @ecsualum who got offended by me and stormed out a couple of years ago.  He highlighted Agyemang's exploits and overall story.  There is NOTHING to criticize here, EVEN IF ESCU only has a 57% six year graduation rate.  What tf are we doing???  The kid was 17, a good athlete, good soccer player, who enrolled at a local college.  He and his family might not have even known the difference between D3 and D1.  They certainly didn't pick the route because some coach said "come here and your next 40-45 years will be great." 

The kid deserves the credit...and congrats to him even if he never earns another dime as a professional and never plays in a WC...and if he merely ends up being the future coach at a ECSU and makes money off camps..or if he chooses to become homeless and live in the woods.  Who cares??? He's made it to a point that announcers on a national broadcast of the USMNT are tripping over themselves about this kid's ability abd potential. 

All of us defend our choices.  We all made the most brilliant decisions in the end, and all of our kids are now excelling at a level that would have been unimaginable but not for our brilliant, savvy decisions.  And nothing is more savvy apparently than leaving the world of D1 to find the elite academics and fantastic ROIs that we've navigated them into.

Brilliant goal, btw...literally within  minutes of the announcers screaming watch out for this kid. 

[Kuiper]

I definitely didn't mean to start a controversy by posting about Agyemang.  I just thought it was nice to see a former DIII guy make it as far as he has thus far.  No commentary about DIII being as good as DI.  It might be better for some players to start at DIII and then try to transfer to DI after a year (more playing time early, build confidence, more time to mature physically and emotionally and to adjust to college-level academics etc), but I wouldn't advise anyone to do that because it was a better pathway to the pros or anything like that.

If you're looking for a similar case where a player went DIII and transferred after 1 successful year to start on a pro pathway in DI, check out Jayden Da.  He was a Presidents Athletic Conference player of the Year and Newcomer of the year for Washington & Jefferson in 20-21.  He then transferred to DI Duquesne and was drafted by Columbus Crew in 2024.   He played last season with Crew 2 (9 goals/5 assists in 27 games) and just signed with New England Revolution 2 for the 2025 season.

I think Agyemang and Da are not really cases where DIII made the players (although DIII may have helped smooth their adjustment to DI), but a combination of being a late bloomer and the inefficiencies in the club and recruiting scenes made DIII a good place to start. Here's a podcast video where Da explains in the first question in the video that he grew up playing soccer in West Africa (early on with balled up plastic bags wrapped together to make a ball) and then moved to the US around 10 or 11 and played at a decent club, but not an MLS Academy or DA.  Plus, he said he was not tall or fast until he hit puberty later than other kids and grew "overnight" around sophomore year.  Da said it took him time to adjust to his body.  In the Revs press release, he's listed as 6'5" and 205 lbs.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Interesting article on Univ of Maryland's swing towards int'l players which obv mirrors other D1 programs. In the middle, check out the graph. Some of my son's club team played at UMD and had good careers there. Plus have two daughters there. The student who wrote this did a pretty good job.

https://dbknews.com/2024/12/08/maryland-mens-soccer-international-recruiting/

[EnmoreCat]

As an international consumer, I'm a strong advocate.  World class academic possibilities, a robust athletic experience, plus one of the few countries left (sadly not including Australia so much these days) that offers an authentic student life.  Can't ask for more really...

[Kuiper]

This has nothing to do with soccer, but I thought it was an interesting peek into expenses of DI, DII, and DIII teams in a different sport - wrestling - that points out just how little the "higher-level" programs spend on actually running the programs, as compared with scholarships.  It might be that the difference is attributable to DI programs getting jerseys and training gear paid for through sponsorships, but I don't know that either CSU or Lake Erie have high level gear sponsorships and many, if not most, DIII schools either make the players pay or fundraise from donors for the cost.  I wouldn't be surprised if there were some DIII programs that also outspent D1 programs on operating expenses in men's soccer too. 

[Edited to add that the reason for this analysis was because Cleveland State is dropping its wrestling program]

https://stevedittmore.substack.com/p/taking-a-deepish-look-at-four-cleveland

[SKUD]

CSU is dropping Wrestling after this season along with softball and Women's golf to try to plug a budget shortfall.

[Kuiper]

Brazilian club Flamengo will practice at Stockton University in June when it is in the states to play group stage games at Lincoln Field in Philadelphia in the FIFA Club World CUp

https://stockton.edu/news/2025/cr-flamengo-practicing-at-stockton.html

One of Brazil's most iconic and globally beloved soccer teams has announced that it will train at Stockton University this summer, ahead of its first two matches for the FIFA Club World Cup 2025™.

CR Flamengo, based in Brazil's largest city Rio de Janeiro, has an estimated fan base of nearly 50 million and is reportedly the country's most valuable soccer team.

CR Flamengo

Facts about CR Flamengo
Will arrive at Stockton June 11 to practice before first two FIFA Club World Cup 2025 games.
Games are in Philadelphia on June 16 (Esperance Sportive de Tunisie) and June 20 (Chelsea FC).
CR Flamengo is the most popular team in Brazil with more than 46.9 million fans.
Founded in 1895 and named after the Flamengo neighborhood of Rio de Janeiro.
Rubro-Negro (Scarlet and Black) is a popular nickname.

The team will arrive at Stockton's Galloway campus on June 11, ahead of its first game in the global tournament at 9 p.m., June 16, against Tunisian squad Espérance Sportive de Tunisie. The team will continue to practice at Stockton before its second name against English Premier League standouts Chelsea FC at 2 p.m., June 20. Both games will be played at Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia.

The team will have access to two natural grass outdoor fields, including G. Larry James Stadium, and the air-conditioned Sports Center, which includes physical therapy facilities and meeting rooms for the coaching staff.

"At Stockton, we have a proud, rich history of hosting for FIFA going back to the 1994 World Cup, and thanks to the extraordinary efforts of our Associate Athletic Director Jeff Haines, we are able to continue that tradition," Berich added.

In 1994, Stockton University hosted the Saudi Arabia national soccer team that competed in that year's World Cup. The university also hosted a friendly match with Trinidad and Tobago.

[Kuiper]

I definitely didn't mean to start a controversy by posting about Agyemang.  I just thought it was nice to see a former DIII guy make it as far as he has thus far.  No commentary about DIII being as good as DI.  It might be better for some players to start at DIII and then try to transfer to DI after a year (more playing time early, build confidence, more time to mature physically and emotionally and to adjust to college-level academics etc), but I wouldn't advise anyone to do that because it was a better pathway to the pros or anything like that.

If you're looking for a similar case where a player went DIII and transferred after 1 successful year to start on a pro pathway in DI, check out Jayden Da.  He was a Presidents Athletic Conference player of the Year and Newcomer of the year for Washington & Jefferson in 20-21.  He then transferred to DI Duquesne and was drafted by Columbus Crew in 2024.   He played last season with Crew 2 (9 goals/5 assists in 27 games) and just signed with New England Revolution 2 for the 2025 season.

I think Agyemang and Da are not really cases where DIII made the players (although DIII may have helped smooth their adjustment to DI), but a combination of being a late bloomer and the inefficiencies in the club and recruiting scenes made DIII a good place to start. Here's a podcast video where Da explains in the first question in the video that he grew up playing soccer in West Africa (early on with balled up plastic bags wrapped together to make a ball) and then moved to the US around 10 or 11 and played at a decent club, but not an MLS Academy or DA.  Plus, he said he was not tall or fast until he hit puberty later than other kids and grew "overnight" around sophomore year.  Da said it took him time to adjust to his body.  In the Revs press release, he's listed as 6'5" and 205 lbs.

Here's some video of Agyemang from when he played for Eastern CT State in DIII in 2017 and comparing it to today.  He was definitely a man among boys then, but not exactly our finest examples of DIII goalkeeping either though.

[Ejay]

Four years ago, Patrick Agyemang was playing D3 college ball.

Now he's the big winner from #USMNT January camp.

https://www.soccerjournal.com/patrick-agyemang-transfers-to-uri-from-eastern-connecticut-state/

Not quite try 5 or 6 years ago. It appears that he played two years with ECU which ended in 2019. Yes, he scored 21 goals in 2019, but most of those were against not great D3 teams. COVID happened and he transferred to d1 Univ. of RI to finish his college. https://qcnerve.com/patrick-agyemang-charlotte-fc/  He did pretty well with URI where he played 2.5 season for good to mediocre D1 team. I bet he still owes some college loans.

Also it appears that he was around 5'8" as a junior in HS and finished growing to 6'4" in college. He also came from East Hartford which is a really tough part of of CT. Besides being smaller early, the other reason IMO it appears to be he was from a poor family. No big mystery, no big star in the rough. He's 24 now and has a few more years.

I know we all want some great player to emerge from D3 purgatory/obscurity, but that does not appear to be here. He plays MLS and scored a goal against Venezuela. He had a decent season last year with splitting between starting and coming off the bench (19 starts 12 sub with 10 goals). I do hope it gets even better in the future, but don't think he'll end up in the EPL. 

I have to admit, I think he is a great player. World Class? No. But anyone who pulls on the shirt for the U.S. at this stage is a great player. Even if it's only the January camp. You just don't get that invite if you aren't playing great at the moment.

I'm not going to hold it to great = world class. There are only a scant few Americans who have ever been even close to World Class, and usually just for a season or two. Dempsey and Howard for some seasons, Pulisic is consistently there when given a chance. Otherwise? Donovan, Friedel, Keller, Claudio Reyna? Harkes? Bahr? World class? No. 

Come on, that's not the bar for a great player. There are 2.5 million youth soccer players in the U.S. In any given year, about 50 players, counting the January camp, get a cap for the Men's U.S. National Team. You have to be pretty great to beat those odds.

Give the man his due. He may never play in a competitive National Team match. But he pulled on the Senior National Team shirt and that's a pretty great outcome for a kid who came out of an under privileged area, played D3 soccer, jumped to D1, pushed on to MLS and was called up to the National Team.

99.99999% and probably a bunch more 9s fail at one of those stops, he didn't. We see every year where outstanding D3 players transfer to D1 and struggle to make an impact. He found a way. And then found a way at the next step, and the next. That's great.

I don't care if he was a D1 caliber player who was under-recruited. He played D3 and he kept on going. It's a great story.

I'm not going to lie. I didn't know his story until reading this thread, but when I saw him in the USMNT game, I said aloud "not impressed, not sure I'd call him back".

Still a cool story and I wish him continued success. 

[blue_jays]

A sad day for soccer and the Wheaton College community with the passing of legendary coach Joe Bean.
A great coach and better man. He will be greatly missed.

https://athletics.wheaton.edu/news/2025/2/13/mens-soccer-wheaton-college-remembers-former-mens-soccer-coach-joe-bean-1939-2025.aspx

[College Soccer Observer]

I had a chance to officiate numerous Wheaton games from 1988 to Coach Bean's retirement in 2006.  He was an intense competitor who was a true gentleman at all times.  Going to referee at Wheaton was always a treat, and Coach Bean was a big part of that experience.  RIP to a wonderful man.

[Kuiper]

Div3Footy, an Instagram account, came out with a Best 11 for last season

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGUUoOtMNXD/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Not a bad mix of players, although you might describe it as the Best 11 of teams that didn't make the Final Four (other than Madden of Middlebury). 

[laker4141]

Div3Footy, an Instagram account, came out with a Best 11 for last season

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGUUoOtMNXD/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

Not a bad mix of players, although you might describe it as the Best 11 of teams that didn't make the Final Four (other than Madden of Middlebury). 

Much like the brackets they made before the tournament, so far off base. Yikes.

[SKUD]

Glad they got the goalie correct!

[SierraFD3soccer]

Hopkins influence on the world! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUT1SdA_dI