NCAA TOURNAMENT 2024

[SierraFD3soccer]

If you like to look at some great goals and some pk saves, check this out if you have not already. https://www.instagram.com/div3footy/?hl=en

Oh wow. I hadn't actually seen the Williams goal. Um. Keeper?

That's an unfortunate way to go out.

Yup, as you know, one mistake . . . while playing a great game. Like they say, the ball had to get past 10 other players till this. How many highlights of missed shots, though??? Life isn't fair.

Also, how many highlights of great saves made during all these games.

[College Soccer Observer]

CSO. Can you elucidate the no call 6 yards from CR  in MU half in 2OT that led to transition game winning goal?

Just looked at the video and was able to blow it up and look at it frame by frame.  Here are my thoughts.  The video is not conclusive to me, and there is only one angle.  That being said, my gut instinct is this is a foul.  Some thoughts (speculative) on why it was not called:
1.  The referee is looking right at the play from the opposite angle to the camera.  The Williams player places his left arm on the Messiah player's right shoulder.  At this point, it is incidental contact.
2.  There is no foot to foot contact by the William's player's left foot to the Messiah player's right foot.  I believe this is where the referee's eyes were focused.
3.  The left knee of the Williams player appears to have made contact with the knee/quad area of the Messiah player (the Messiah player's right leg appears to move as if contact occurred.)
4.  The Messiah player's right leg never returns to the ground as he begins to fall.

As I said before, I think this is probably a foul.  I am trying to explain what the referee may have been looking at.   

[PaulNewman]

Anyone have any predictions/commentary for the Mary Wash v Denison matchup? Haven't had the chance to watch any Denison matches this season but have caught plenty of UMW games. How do these two teams match up?
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Anyone have any predictions/commentary for the Mary Wash v Denison matchup? Haven't had the chance to watch any Denison matches this season but have caught plenty of UMW games. How do these two teams match up?

Denison has sky high confidence right now tossed with a heavy dose of hunger. Dangerous combo. But...the opponent is MWU, so Denison will need to catch a break or two. That said, Denison will absolutely show up expecting to win. A blowout is always in play with MWU, but I would lean towards this one being a real dogfight and very tightly contested. Bianco is a phenomenal coach and you can expect he'll do his homework (including consultation with a certain coach who just played MWU.

Basically would have same comments about the other game in the sectional. MWU and Conn favored but no surprise if any of the four emerge out of the sectional.

Should be two good ones.

[Middfan]

In response to Fitz's comment about the fouls committed by nescac sides in comparison to normies:

Fouls are a part of the sport. In fact, fouling is an important tactic that it practiced and coached at the highest level. I don't think we should shine a negative light on it, as Fitz aimed to do--especially when these teams are coming from the most physical conference in the country and are used to refs that often times let them play. Not to mention, these same teams continue to dominate division 3 soccer.

During last year's NBA season, critics were pointing out the Celtics high volume of 3-point shooting, scoffing at their decision to chuck up 3s rather than getting to the paint or posting guys up. This season, the majority of teams are shooting significantly more 3s after watching Boston skip through the playoffs on their way to an 18th championship for the franchise. Even the Celtics have upped their volume to start the year.

Though an imperfect analogy (fouls and 3-pointers are quite different), I think Messiah and other normies can take something from this. Rather than hang your hat on fouling less than other teams, why not coach fouling? Any Nescac team would have immediately fouled the Williams player during that counter attack (or at least tried to) and they probably could've saved a goal.

I think we're seeing two contrasting philosophies in sports ethics. NESCAC schools operate out of a mode where you must "win at all costs" rather than "winning the right way". Messiah prides themselves on winning with class and sportsmanship, whereas NESCAC schools don't mind a bit of gamesmanship to get the job done. I don't take issue with either approach. It all just depends on your sports ethics philosophy.

Not sure the 3 point analogy works with soccer, to be completely honest.

Mr. November.  With all due respect, I have no idea what you are talking about when you say that NESCAC has a "win at all costs" approach rather than doing it the "right way".  Whether it's the admission standards which eliminate lots of strong players and, most likely, great kids, the on-field sportsmanship or the character building approach taken by (I can only really speak for Middlebury) it's coaches, I can assure you that Messiah does not have an exclusive on "class".  I see no more classy teams when we play out of conference than in.  The taking of a "professional foul" in the right way at the critical time is a part of the high level game.  Sorry your team lost but please come down off of your off-base high horse and and work on your perspective.   

[Mr_November]

Mr. November.  With all due respect, I have no idea what you are talking about when you say that NESCAC has a "win at all costs" approach rather than doing it the "right way".  Whether it's the admission standards which eliminate lots of strong players and, most likely, great kids, the on-field sportsmanship or the character building approach taken by (I can only really speak for Middlebury) it's coaches, I can assure you that Messiah does not have an exclusive on "class".  I see no more classy teams when we play out of conference than in.  The taking of a "professional foul" in the right way at the critical time is a part of the high level game.  Sorry your team lost but please come down off of your off-base high horse and and work on your perspective.   

Middfan and friends, I do apologize for my unheeded comments. It wasn't my intention to place labels on teams. I was merely trying to describe the perception by some folks that some programs have contrasting playing philosophies. For the record, I don't hold anything against ANY D3 programs anywhere in the country. I very much appreciate all styles/philosophies of soccer. That's one of the best parts about D3 Soccer, and thus my eagerness to contribute an unsolicited comment.

I don't claim to owe allegiance to any one program and don't intend to represent a certain subset of users on these boards. Not sure how I got lumped into the Messiah "high-horse" category. I appreciate their program but was not speaking on behalf of the Messiah faithful with my loose comment.

[Middfan]

Mr. November, thanks for the clarification and acknowledgment of the weight your criticism may have had. The opportunity these young men have to learn, develop and compete is incredible.  From where I stand on the home side of the pitch, I couldn't be more impressed. Let's leave it there.

[PaulNewman]

Anybody have any commentary on Dickinson winning 2-0 over Lynchburg? A mild surprise for me...not necessarily that Dickinson advanced but more the scoreline. A close 2-0 or not so much? I thought Lynchburg over Emory 3-0 was one of the more impressive 1st round showings and iirc Lynchburg performed relatively well against W&L.

[jknezek]

Anybody have any commentary on Dickinson winning 2-0 over Lynchburg? A mild surprise for me...not necessarily that Dickinson advanced but more the scoreline. A close 2-0 or not so much? I thought Lynchburg over Emory 3-0 was one of the more impressive 1st round showings and iirc Lynchburg performed relatively well against W&L.

Looks to me like Dickinson capitalized and Lynchburg didn't. Dickinson had 3 shots, put all 3 on goal, and scored twice. Lynchburg took 8 shots, put 3 on goal, and didn't get any through. I suspect the scoreline flatters Dickinson at least a bit. But I didn't watch the game.

Lynchburg did have 10 corners to Dickinson's 1. That's probably as good an indicator as any of who was more offensive.

[PaulNewman]

Thanks @jknezek...and btw, I don't think Dickinson should be hosting...esp if the only issue was one flight for W&L. Sending Amherst to Wisconsin makes total sense...and not that this was a consideration at all but I suspect most of us think the harm to Amherst is minimal.

[jknezek]

Thanks @jknezek...and btw, I don't think Dickinson should be hosting...esp if the only issue was one flight for W&L. Sending Amherst to Wisconsin makes total sense...and not that this was a consideration at all but I suspect most of us think the harm to Amherst is minimal.

I mostly agree. Though I don't think it's a coincidence that Bowdoin got run off the field in Texas. First off, I agree Trinity is very good, but also D3 travel is hard for teams not used to it. Amherst may struggle more than expected, especially if they face UW EC in the Elite 8. Though I suspect Amherst has been to the Final 4 enough to have a better handle on the experience than Bowdoin would, or maybe even Middlebury, since they haven't been out of New England in a few years. For teams that don't need to travel, it can be a shock.

I suspect Trinity's island status helps them at least a bit in that regard. Similarly, W&L's mediocre road trip to Sewanee and Covenant at least keeps the experience of long bus trips and a couple nights in a hotel fresh.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Anybody have any commentary on Dickinson winning 2-0 over Lynchburg? A mild surprise for me...not necessarily that Dickinson advanced but more the scoreline. A close 2-0 or not so much? I thought Lynchburg over Emory 3-0 was one of the more impressive 1st round showings and iirc Lynchburg performed relatively well against W&L.

Looks to me like Dickinson capitalized and Lynchburg didn't. Dickinson had 3 shots, put all 3 on goal, and scored twice. Lynchburg took 8 shots, put 3 on goal, and didn't get any through. I suspect the scoreline flatters Dickinson at least a bit. But I didn't watch the game.

Lynchburg did have 10 corners to Dickinson's 1. That's probably as good an indicator as any of who was more offensive.

Over the season, Dickinson has had much better offense in that they can score goals with two guys doing a lot damage. Saul Iwowo (15 goals/7 assists with 1 and an assist v. Lynchburg) and Ethan Jorden (13 g/8 a).  Problem is that Dickinson has struggled in the midfield and defense. Advice would be score early on them and then try to shut them down. They may score a lot because of their effective scorers who take quality shots, but they are vulnerable.

IMO when playing at Dickinson on their grass, a lot of goals will be scored in the middle of the box due the inconsistent surface. Over the years. It seems like a lot of goals get scored that way in Carlisle. Popcorn. So, as always, it is very important to not sit back, but to keep the offensive pressure up.

[PaulNewman]

@jknezek, your take that travel can definitely impact performance I think supports the idea that, from at least a perennial perspective, Trinity gets the short end of the stick. And surely you're not going to count the fact that Trinity has to travel more than most anyway as a mitigating factor more so than a double jeopardy. That program is used to the CC trip to CO, and not the same as traveling to NE where most would agree the top NESCACs have substantial home field advantages.

[Hopkins92]

Once again, I'm in this weird parochial position where Hopkins beat a Centennial foe twice (regular season and conf tournament), yet that team advances further in Nov Madness than the Jays.

Last year, Hop beat Wash in Chestertown 2-0 both times and the Shorepeople made their epic run to the F4. This year, Hop beat the Red Devils rather convincingly at home by 4-2 and 3-0 scorelines. (For the record, Dickinson thumped Hop at home 4-2 last year.)

So, it's hard for me to see them getting past either Williams or W&L. Heck, I can see them struggling to get past the next round. I thought their forwards were decent, but they didn't really blow me away with their speed or ball handling.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Thanks @jknezek...and btw, I don't think Dickinson should be hosting...esp if the only issue was one flight for W&L. Sending Amherst to Wisconsin makes total sense...and not that this was a consideration at all but I suspect most of us think the harm to Amherst is minimal.

Maybe so, but Dickinson is definitely more centrally located. Money is always an issue. 

[jknezek]

@jknezek, your take that travel can definitely impact performance I think supports the idea that, from at least a perennial perspective, Trinity gets the short end of the stick. And surely you're not going to count the fact that Trinity has to travel more than most anyway as a mitigating factor more so than a double jeopardy. That program is used to the CC trip to CO, and not the same as traveling to NE where most would agree the top NESCACs have substantial home field advantages.

I do think Trinity are more prepared for the difficulties of travel than a NESCAC team who hardly ever travels. Experience does help mitigate the effects. But I do believe being at home is a significant advantage and travelling is tough. I also think the committee erred setting home/away to irrelevant, but that's a different discussion.

And I never said the island teams don't get the short end of the stick. They do. Regularly. I just don't think Trinity got it this year. I think they hosted the first weekend, as they should have, and they are rightfully a 2 seed in a 2nd weekend pod and should travel. Travelling to New England isn't much different than Maryland or Central PA. And I doubt anyone saw the Wisconsin pod happening, but I really don't think that's any better from a travel perspective.

If Trinity were the top seed in the pod, and they got sent somewhere like Amherst did, I'd say that's a screw job. And I don't doubt it's happened to Trinity as an an island team before and will happen again. That's the money reality. But this year, in this seeding? I think their pod is in the proper place.