NCAA TOURNAMENT 2024

[Fitz@615]

Take a gander at the offsides call at the 38:30 mark of 2nd half, made by the CR.

[Another Mom]

I wouldn't say the stats bear you out. W&L outshot hopkins and had many more corners. Our gk had to make very few saves.

[Newenglander]

In response to Fitz's comment about the fouls committed by nescac sides in comparison to normies:

Fouls are a part of the sport. In fact, fouling is an important tactic that it practiced and coached at the highest level. I don't think we should shine a negative light on it, as Fitz aimed to do--especially when these teams are coming from the most physical conference in the country and are used to refs that often times let them play. Not to mention, these same teams continue to dominate division 3 soccer.

During last year's NBA season, critics were pointing out the Celtics high volume of 3-point shooting, scoffing at their decision to chuck up 3s rather than getting to the paint or posting guys up. This season, the majority of teams are shooting significantly more 3s after watching Boston skip through the playoffs on their way to an 18th championship for the franchise. Even the Celtics have upped their volume to start the year.

Though an imperfect analogy (fouls and 3-pointers are quite different), I think Messiah and other normies can take something from this. Rather than hang your hat on fouling less than other teams, why not coach fouling? Any Nescac team would have immediately fouled the Williams player during that counter attack (or at least tried to) and they probably could've saved a goal.

I think we're seeing two contrasting philosophies in sports ethics. NESCAC schools operate out of a mode where you must "win at all costs" rather than "winning the right way". Messiah prides themselves on winning with class and sportsmanship, whereas NESCAC schools don't mind a bit of gamesmanship to get the job done. I don't take issue with either approach. It all just depends on your sports ethics philosophy.

Not sure the 3 point analogy works with soccer, to be completely honest.

seems like a bit of a sweeping generalization on all fronts.........

[College Soccer Observer]

Take a gander at the offsides call at the 38:30 mark of 2nd half, made by the CR.

Video is not helpful here as you cannot see where the Messiah player is in relation to the second to last defender when the ball is played by his teammate near Messiah's endline.  The officials were using headsets to communicate.  There is no way the refereee made this call without input.  If the AR has the Messiah forward in an offside position when the ball is last played by a teammate, he will verbalize that to the referee.  The referee concluded that the Williams player attempting to head the ball was a deflection and not a controlled play.  That aspect of the play was correctly officiated.  The Williams player has to make a desperate leap for the ball as it bounces over his head.  This is a textbook example of what both IFAB/FIFA and the NCAA consider a deflection and not a deliberate play that would reset offside.  The only thing that is not clear from the video is whether the attacker from Messiah was in an offside position when his teammate sent the long ball.

[jknezek]

I wouldn't say the stats bear you out. W&L outshot hopkins and had many more corners. Our gk had to make very few saves.

Traditionally JHU doesn't take many shots, looking for a small number of high quality opportunities. It's not unusual for them to play an opponent straight up, or control a game, and still have fewer shots. For example, in the non-conf matchup that I think Hopkins controlled pretty easily, they took 8 shots to W&L's 16, and both put 5 on frame. So this game, where I'd say there is no doubt W&L had the better of play in the first half and it looked reasonably even if a slight lean to Hopkins in the second half, I'm not surprised it 19(4), 8(2). I think a tie result was pretty fair for how the game went.

Pks are pks... I really don't count them as a victory for W&L anymore than I count them as a win for Amherst in last year's Final Four. One team has to go through, so we use the method. But overall, it's a garbage way to settle a game.

As for the style, I do believe quantity has a quality all it's own. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. On the other hand, you might miss a better opportunity spraying a shot from 20+ yards out. 2 sides of that coin and I do believe there is a happy medium to aim for. Hopkins, to me, is a bit too conservative for my taste. Especially at the D3 level. But I also hate seeing 20-25 shots per game with 3 or 4 on target. If you are going for quantity, you need to put at least 1/3 of your shots on target. If you are going to be real selective, you better put more like 50%+ on frame.

[jfreddys]

I wouldn't say the stats bear you out. W&L outshot hopkins and had many more corners. Our gk had to make very few saves.

Fair enough.  The number of corners in that second was pretty significant.  And without having to go back and forth maybe the word is momentum seemed more on the Hopkins side as the game carried on.  As has been mentioned many times before, Hopkins does often look for the perfect set up and shot and kudos to the W&L defenders, they didn't allow too many of those.

Again, congrats to W&L and good luck...would enjoy seeing a W&L/Dickinson quarterfinal.

But being on the West Coast, little shout out to CMS...they'd have a ton of supporters if they can get to Vegas...3+ hour drive...without traffic
 

[soccerpapa]

Three University of Wisconsin State Schools in the Sweet Sixteen.  Impressive


Too bad all three are in the same quadrant

[SierraFD3soccer]

If you like to look at some great goals and some pk saves, check this out if you have not already. https://www.instagram.com/div3footy/?hl=en

Oh wow. I hadn't actually seen the Williams goal. Um. Keeper?

That's an unfortunate way to go out.

Yup, as you know, one mistake . . . while playing a great game. Like they say, the ball had to get past 10 other players till this. How many highlights of missed shots, though??? Life isn't fair.

[Fitz@615]

CSO. Can you elucidate the no call 6 yards from CR  in MU half in 2OT that led to transition game winning goal?

[Freddyfud]

Take a gander at the offsides call at the 38:30 mark of 2nd half, made by the CR.

Video is not helpful here as you cannot see where the Messiah player is in relation to the second to last defender when the ball is played by his teammate near Messiah's endline.  The officials were using headsets to communicate.  There is no way the refereee made this call without input.  If the AR has the Messiah forward in an offside position when the ball is last played by a teammate, he will verbalize that to the referee.  The referee concluded that the Williams player attempting to head the ball was a deflection and not a controlled play.  That aspect of the play was correctly officiated.  The Williams player has to make a desperate leap for the ball as it bounces over his head.  This is a textbook example of what both IFAB/FIFA and the NCAA consider a deflection and not a deliberate play that would reset offside.  The only thing that is not clear from the video is whether the attacker from Messiah was in an offside position when his teammate sent the long ball.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/soccer/rules/2022-23PRXSO_RulesQuestionsInterpretationsV1.pdf

[Freddyfud]

So this game, where I'd say there is no doubt W&L had the better of play in the first half and it looked reasonably even if a slight lean to Hopkins in the second half, I'm not surprised it 19(4), 8(2). I think a tie result was pretty fair for how the game went.

Similar to Argentina's loss to Saudi Arabia in the 2022 Cup.  If overall stats determine which team had the better play or even worse deserve to win Argentina's run would have been much less memorable.

[KCB123]

Conn college seems to be cruising as of late, with two blowout wins (4-1, 3-0). They travel to Mary Washington to play Kenyon, who just squeaked by fellow NESCAC Hamilton.

How far can this team go? And if they find themselves vs Mary Washington in the Elite 8, who has the upper hand in that match?

I think Kenyon has a real chance. The confidence of coming back in the last seconds of the Hamilton game paired with more added minutes from Duratovic bodes well for their chances at an upset. I'm hearing some more injured players could also make their return, so for a team that has been struck with injuries, might be getting more and more healthy. Going to have to play a perfect game against Conn College though. There's little to no room for error.

[Mr_November]

Anyone have any predictions/commentary for the Mary Wash v Denison matchup? Haven't had the chance to watch any Denison matches this season but have caught plenty of UMW games. How do these two teams match up?

[dacac]

In response to Fitz's comment about the fouls committed by nescac sides in comparison to normies:

Fouls are a part of the sport. In fact, fouling is an important tactic that it practiced and coached at the highest level. I don't think we should shine a negative light on it, as Fitz aimed to do--especially when these teams are coming from the most physical conference in the country and are used to refs that often times let them play. Not to mention, these same teams continue to dominate division 3 soccer.

During last year's NBA season, critics were pointing out the Celtics high volume of 3-point shooting, scoffing at their decision to chuck up 3s rather than getting to the paint or posting guys up. This season, the majority of teams are shooting significantly more 3s after watching Boston skip through the playoffs on their way to an 18th championship for the franchise. Even the Celtics have upped their volume to start the year.

Though an imperfect analogy (fouls and 3-pointers are quite different), I think Messiah and other normies can take something from this. Rather than hang your hat on fouling less than other teams, why not coach fouling? Any Nescac team would have immediately fouled the Williams player during that counter attack (or at least tried to) and they probably could've saved a goal.

I think we're seeing two contrasting philosophies in sports ethics. NESCAC schools operate out of a mode where you must "win at all costs" rather than "winning the right way". Messiah prides themselves on winning with class and sportsmanship, whereas NESCAC schools don't mind a bit of gamesmanship to get the job done. I don't take issue with either approach. It all just depends on your sports ethics philosophy.

Not sure the 3 point analogy works with soccer, to be completely honest.

This is the same Messiah U that prohibits LGBTQ expression?

Maybe hold off on the "ethics" lesson

[Mr_November]

In response to Fitz's comment about the fouls committed by nescac sides in comparison to normies:

Fouls are a part of the sport. In fact, fouling is an important tactic that it practiced and coached at the highest level. I don't think we should shine a negative light on it, as Fitz aimed to do--especially when these teams are coming from the most physical conference in the country and are used to refs that often times let them play. Not to mention, these same teams continue to dominate division 3 soccer.

During last year's NBA season, critics were pointing out the Celtics high volume of 3-point shooting, scoffing at their decision to chuck up 3s rather than getting to the paint or posting guys up. This season, the majority of teams are shooting significantly more 3s after watching Boston skip through the playoffs on their way to an 18th championship for the franchise. Even the Celtics have upped their volume to start the year.

Though an imperfect analogy (fouls and 3-pointers are quite different), I think Messiah and other normies can take something from this. Rather than hang your hat on fouling less than other teams, why not coach fouling? Any Nescac team would have immediately fouled the Williams player during that counter attack (or at least tried to) and they probably could've saved a goal.

I think we're seeing two contrasting philosophies in sports ethics. NESCAC schools operate out of a mode where you must "win at all costs" rather than "winning the right way". Messiah prides themselves on winning with class and sportsmanship, whereas NESCAC schools don't mind a bit of gamesmanship to get the job done. I don't take issue with either approach. It all just depends on your sports ethics philosophy.

Not sure the 3 point analogy works with soccer, to be completely honest.

This is the same Messiah U that prohibits LGBTQ expression?

Maybe hold off on the "ethics" lesson

Feel free to disagree, but I'm not entertaining political discussions on this medium.

Also - I would have no clue about Messiah's LGBTQ policy.