NCAA TOURNAMENT 2024

[jknezek]

Ha. I've bemoaned this several times. If it was anywhere in the mid Atlantic I'd be on my way Friday. But there is no way I'm flying to Vegas. I suspect the crowd will be even sparser than usual for these games.

I hate when D3 does stuff like this.

[PaulNewman]

Vassar has no football team. They would be a huge outlier in the NESCAC. The better question is, "would Vassar start a football team for a NESCAC invite?" I suspect it would be a very strong consideration.

I agree Vassar should and probably has considered something like starting football as a way into NESCAC. But don't forget Conn with no football. I don't see football as necessarily a deal breaker...and in the end Vassar may want to identify with some of the (at least perceived) less athletics-obsessed academic elites more so than the more traditional, button downed BB/finance NESCACs.  Like Swat, Haverford, Carleton, Grinnell, Macalester, Oberlin...and even Reed.

If you go back only 20 years Vassar was what Bard is today. Sports are just extracurricular activities and they don't care if they win or lose (mostly lose).

They put some $ and elbow grease into it and raised themselves up to kind of lower third NESCAC all-sports level. I think they could be even better if they want to be.

IMO Skidmore is a slightly better fit for NESCAC #12 if it ever comes to it, because of geography and sport sponsorship.

Great post.  Thanks.  Love Skidmore, great school, and I see your points there.  However, the only NESCACs who imo would support Skid might be Conn and Trinity.  If going the Skidmore route, then I think Union enters the fray, a school basically a sibling or very close first cousin to Conn/Trinity.  Union imo fits NESCAC from both the Conn-Trinity vibe and the athletics vibe.  For traditional NESCACers, I think Vassar would be the pick while biting their tongue about the artsy, culturally more open scene.  Not a perfect analogy, but think Oberlin vs Kenyon/Denison/DePauw.

[PaulNewman]

Prediction...within next 5-10 years, one or more NESCACs will drop football.

[Ron Boerger]

I know we covered from a competition perspective, but can we talk about what an absolutely boneheaded idea it was to host this tournament final in Las Vegas from a logistics point of view?  Everyone has to fly, and the hotels are nearly all sold out or in the $1000+ range for a single night.  It seems there is a 300k+ person convention/rodeo in town the same weekend (which is easily knowable) on top of Amazon, and others.  That's quite a commitment for families that want to see their kids play in the final four, not to mention the scores of young alums who otherwise would attend, but are being shut out by cost.

The NCAA also always had a travel rule that required the semi-final losers to vacate their hotels after their loss.  Are they enforcing that here, where everyone is required to fly?

Don't mind me, I'm just salty for having to spend my Christmas budget on red-eye flights and hotels.

It is boneheaded - and not the first time the topic has been raised, though I'm not sure if it was this thread or elsewhere.

The NCAA solicits bids for all its championships.  It may be that the Las Vegas bid was the only one it received for this year's championships, which is unlikely but possible.  Much more likely was that they offered some kind of financial incentives the other bidders couldn't match, because the NCAA has to pay to put the championship teams/staffs up and fly them all there.  About the only advantage to having it in Vegas is they won't have to deal with snow.

[PaulNewman]

There are other folks better at finding data like this, but iirc 70-80% of the NESCAC student bodies participate in intercollegiate athletics.  Maybe that number is too high, but relative to some of the less athletics dominant or more hybrid elite schools, I think the percentages are significantly higher at NESCACs compared to some of their non-NESCAC academic elites.  There are exceptions like W&L and Davidson that most closely mimic NESCACs in terms of an athletics focus, but some of the other top LACs have student bodies where half or more of the enrollment classes will never watch D3 soccer, football, swimming, etc.

[FBALLISLIFE]

Ha. I've bemoaned this several times. If it was anywhere in the mid Atlantic I'd be on my way Friday. But there is no way I'm flying to Vegas. I suspect the crowd will be even sparser than usual for these games.

I hate when D3 does stuff like this.

You'd also be late.  Set your clock for 8 pm (central) on THURSDAY, not Friday.   I'll wave to you from the stands.

[Bucket]

I think it will be an Amherst Conn final.  Don't think W&L has it to beat Conn, and not sure if Middlebury can really step into this game and rise to the occasion.

SC.

Middlebury can very well lose this match, but it won't be because they "can't step into this game and rise to the occasion." What a terrible take.

The Panthers have lost one game all year, in the NESCAC title game. And this is the Final Four. The last four teams standing, every one of which has had to "step into a game and rise to the occasion" to get here. To question any one of these teams on that "metric" is head-shakingly bad.

[Another Mom]

I echo what @futballislife wrote -- lodging super tight in Las Vegas. Also, sent you a PM @futballislife.

No predictions from me!

[LibbyMoore]

Rate Final Four combatants from best to last in the following categories...

Answered the few I could, and here's an interesting question:
Without looking up the stats, which of the Final Four teams has the most yellow cards?
And which team has a red card?


Best Academic Institution
Tough one--by selectivity it would be Amherst, Midd, W&L, Conn. But Amherst has such a distinctive academic style --open curriculum and tutorials--that it isn't for everyone.

Best Coach/Coaching Staff
Tie for the good rep of Midd staff and the wow factor of W&L going to FF in first year.

Best GK
That could be almost a four-way tie. None of the teams are disadvantaged in this category, and while the obvious call is Conn's Silvestri, the others just may not have had their moment yet.


Most Attractive Style of Play
Conn & Midd, don't know enough about W&L style now

Most Resilient Team
W&L

Best Past Decade
W&L + Amherst

Best Coaching Tree
Can only be Midd!


Best Town/City Where School Located
Washington & Lee (Lexington), close second Middlebury, VT

Best Home Pitch
Tie between W&L and Midd

Best Mascot/Nickname
Camels

Most Feared Mascot (Generals, Mammoth, Camel, Panther)
Panthers but who knows, Southern Generals could be fearsome!

[PaulNewman]

I think it will be an Amherst Conn final.  Don't think W&L has it to beat Conn, and not sure if Middlebury can really step into this game and rise to the occasion.

SC.

Middlebury can very well lose this match, but it won't be because they "can't step into this game and rise to the occasion." What a terrible take.

The Panthers have lost one game all year, in the NESCAC title game. And this is the Final Four. The last four teams standing, every one of which has had to "step into a game and rise to the occasion" to get here. To question any one of these teams on that "metric" is head-shakingly bad.

Understandable take on your part but unnecessarily defensive.  Of the four, and sure, it's close, Midd impresses the most in terms of a "prove it" mode.  I saw the comment as more about Midd's recent history rather than an analysis of how great the team is this year.  Midd has been very, very good to excellent for several years, but they've got their quasi-curse rival staring them in the eyes.  Tremendous pressure on Midd to win one of these matches against Amherst. 

[PaulNewman]

LibbyMoore, excellent effort!

I know this isn't your first year, but still, congratulations, your overall superb performance this season has earned you a spot on the PaulNewman All-Rookie Poster Team.

[Saint of Old]

Midd has won a title before
Amherst has won one as well and maybe has the most pressure on them because honestly, Amherst could have 3 or 4 titles now if they just had a few more clutch moments like Tuffts had with less time on top.
Conn won a title very recently and going for their second.

W+L has been coming and I am sure maybe has loads of neutrals pulling for them.
Any Champion 🏆 who survives will be a worthy champion and more importantly will set up their program for more titles to come.

Many of us don't have teams in it anymore but we are all so proud of these great athletes... especially the seniors.
This is a culmination of great preparation... not 4 years ago, but when since they were 4.

[Kuiper]

Given the grousing about hosting the DIII championships in Las Vegas, I thought you might be interested in a few fun facts on the relationship between the teams and the area:

1.  Not a single player on any of the four schools' rosters hails from Nevada.

2.  According to the data that I could find, there are barely any students in any of the schools from Nevada.  Basically, they have a few students per class at most.  If the schools do any recruiting on this trip, be prepared for a statement in the next alumni bulletin about how the number of students from Nevada has increased by a double digit percentage.  Heck, if anyone from Nevada working at the games or in the hotels learns the names of any of the schools and remembers it after the teams leave, it will be the most successful marketing campaign in Nevada in the school's history.  You probably could walk down the street and ask people if they know what NESCAC is and what it does and the best they can come up with is that it sounds like a national security agency and that's only if you give them a hint that it's an acronym.

3. Given Las Vegas' location in the extreme southwestern tip of the state, it may be unfair to focus on Nevada even though a large percentage of the Nevada population resides in the Las Vegas metro area.  It's closer to Arizona and California than to many parts of Nevada.  So, let's examine the rosters and student populations from those two states.

a.  Arizona

Not a single player from any of the four schools hails from Arizona
There are a few more students from Arizona at each school than from Nevada, but it's still tiny.  Amherst, for example, has 4 students enrolled in the Class of 2028 from Arizona and 2 from Nevada.  W&L reports only 4% of its Class of 2028 from the entire West

b.  California

All four schools have players from California:  Amherst (6), Middlebury (5), Conn College (2), W&L (1).  For Conn and W&L, the percentage of students overall from California is in the single digits, while it's larger for Amherst and Midd.

That doesn't mean their families are nearby though.  The closest big cities are Los Angeles and San Diego, which are about 4 and 5 hours away respectively, but only a few players are from that area. The players from Northern California are more like 8-10 hours away by car.  And since the semifinals are on Thursday afternoon, anyone driving has to either leave late the night before to avoid afternoon traffic or contend with morning traffic the day of, which could make the drives even longer.

As far as other events in Las Vegas, the big one is "Cowboy Christmas 2024" which is from Dec. 5-14.  If the NCAA is hoping to attract any randoms already in Vegas, though, I'm putting my money on people at the American Academy of Pediatrics conference

[Ejay]

As far as other events in Las Vegas, the big one is "Cowboy Christmas 2024" which is from Dec. 5-14.  If the NCAA is hoping to attract any randoms already in Vegas, though, I'm putting my money on people at the American Academy of Pediatrics conference

There are only 650 attendees to the American Academy of Pediatrics meeting.  I'd say the safer bet are the 30,000 attendees of Marijuana Business Daily - MJBizCon 2024 (https://mjbizconference.com/).

[Kuiper]

As far as other events in Las Vegas, the big one is "Cowboy Christmas 2024" which is from Dec. 5-14.  If the NCAA is hoping to attract any randoms already in Vegas, though, I'm putting my money on people at the American Academy of Pediatrics conference

There are only 650 attendees to the American Academy of Pediatrics meeting.  I'd say the safer bet are the 30,000 attendees of Marijuana Business Daily - MJBizCon 2024 (https://mjbizconference.com/).

All Middlebury alums?