NCAA TOURNAMENT 2024

[Another Mom]

AM...maybe not a prediction but early on after the slow start and after W&L won a game or two against iirc some fairly mundane competition you posted that the team was starting to give you the same vibe as last year's team. And at the time, that seemed like a pretty wild stretch...and then you're in Vegas after emerging through a gauntlet to get there.

Congrats to your son on a fabulous W&L career.

Ah, true. I guess I realized the team wasn't nearly as bad as they looked after their first few games! I think people wrote them off after some early interest; and then (almost?) nobody watched their games as they improved.

[PaulNewman]

jknezek, I certainly try to milk numerous Sweet 16s and a couple of Elite 8s as far as I can, but from my vantage point the gulf between the Elite 8 and making a F4 is huge. Would be curious to hear Hop92's take here. The F4 is its own breakthrough. No one cares that you lost the Elite 8 in PKs or on a 109th minute fluky, defensive flub.

For me the multiple F4s are more impressive than one title...and imo much harder to achieve.

[SKUD]

Game 2 Thoughts:

1. One team executed a solid game plan and made an AA look pedestrian forcing the balance of the confederate army to try and defeat them, and they could not.

2. One goalie was better than the other

3. What a banger of a free kick caused by an unnecessary foul.

4. Only 1 stat matters.

[PaulNewman]

AM, it was Oct. 12...after a 3-0 win over CNU...so not a mundane win even though CNU faltered in the second half of the season. That was preceded in September by a few posts basically asking "what's going on here...did everyone already write W&L off? Starting to look like the team I expected."

[PaulNewman]

I may be an outlier here, but conference titles mean almost nothing to me...and I'm saying that despite my team winning a bunch of them over 10 years. I can see why the NESCAC tourney means a lot to NESCAC folks, similar to how the ACC tourney in bball used to be viewed as a huge event, but ultimately conference titles just don't mean that much from my pov.

[Little Giant 89]

Since we talked a lot about the ref in the first game and the VAR calls, I'm going to balance that out a bit. The ref and his assistants in the second game? Outstanding.

The center was consistent, he let shoulder to shoulder challenges and 50/50s go evenly for both teams all night. He gave cards on the appropriate plays. I can't really think of a missed call and I don't think he put a foot wrong the whole game. I can't even really remember too many 50/50 type out of bounds calls that were contested by the teams.

The crew's reward is that we don't really think about it or mention them, which is really what it should be. However, after the first game, I think they deserve some recognition for calling, as far as I could tell on the TV, pretty much a perfect game.

Kudos to the crew, especially the center ref. He did get the easier of the two games, but that doesn't always translate to a better job. Last night that was a very well officiated game.

I especially appreciated the moment when he appeared to tell the CC captain to go calm down his centre back before he received a second yellow.

[Another Mom]

AM, it was Oct. 12...after a 3-0 win over CNU...so not a mundane win even though CNU faltered in the second half of the season. That was preceded in September by a few posts basically asking "what's going on here...did everyone already write W&L off? Starting to look like the team I expected."

Ha, well I guess I was right! 😅

[PaulNewman]

AM, it was Oct. 12...after a 3-0 win over CNU...so not a mundane win even though CNU faltered in the second half of the season. That was preceded in September by a few posts basically asking "what's going on here...did everyone already write W&L off? Starting to look like the team I expected."

Ha, well I guess I was right! 😅

Touche!

[PaulNewman]

Game 2 Thoughts:

1. One team executed a solid game plan and made an AA look pedestrian forcing the balance of the confederate army to try and defeat them, and they could not.

2. One goalie was better than the other

3. What a banger of a free kick caused by an unnecessary foul.

4. Only 1 stat matters.

Regarding the unnecessary foul, I agree it was unnecessary...and iirc that was also a foul the ref almost didn't call and/or it was a delayed call.

[jknezek]

jknezek, I certainly try to milk numerous Sweet 16s and a couple of Elite 8s as far as I can, but from my vantage point the gulf between the Elite 8 and making a F4 is huge. Would be curious to hear Hop92's take here. The F4 is its own breakthrough. No one cares that you lost the Elite 8 in PKs or on a 109th minute fluky, defensive flub.

For me the multiple F4s are more impressive than one title...and imo much harder to achieve.

There is something like 415 teams playing men's D3 soccer. If you make the sweet 16 consistently, you are in the top 4% of teams in the division. You should milk Sweet 16 and Elite Eight appearances. They are huge accomplishments and usually imply that not only did you make the tournament, but you beat at least one very good team in the tournament (first round games can sometimes be excluded).

I'm not sure there is much of a talent difference between teams in the Sweet Sixteen and the Final Four. For example, I'm pretty sure Williams beats Dickinson. But then why do the same NESCAC teams keep appearing and others don't? Because the NESCAC teams play, and throughout a grueling season, refine a style that wins tournaments. Direct, physical, shut down defense, speedy offense. They combine that style with top tier players with their academic recruiting advantage and, with limited practices and lots of substitutions, teams that don't play this style are at a disadvantage, even if they have a similar level of talent.

Messiah made a more beautiful style work for years by having a large talent advantage. They had a hook that allowed them to recruit above the D3 level. Not at the top, they recruited above it. I think the level of the top of D3 has caught up and, while I find Messiah's style more attractive than the NESCAC's, I don't think it can be dominant without players a few steps above.

The difference between the consistent Sweet Sixteen and Elite Eight teams and the rotating cast of NESCAC's that get to and win the Championship is thin on talent. But it can be large on style, and it's definitely large on grueling refinement through the season.

But yeah, I'd milk those Sweet Sixteens and Elite Eights. While it may be disappointing to feel plateau'd at that level, it puts you in some very rare air.

[Hopkins92]

I mean, from the perspective of a fan/alum of a team that consistently gets sent home the first weekend (boo!)... Consistently getting to the 2nd weekend is absolutely something to beat your chest and hold your head high about.

Obvious point: Making the tournament consistently is the first sign that a program has cemented elite status. That's hard to do and is a sign the program has "figured it out." I'm very happy Hopkins is in that position. But it's super frustrating to be knocking on what feels like a bolt-locked door.

[SKUD]

With 2 more games on the Vegas field today I am curious how it plays on Saturday and Sunday for the championships.

[eaglesoccerdad]

As someone who has a kid that had a F4 followed by 2 S16, it is quite an achievement to make the F4 - very difficult.  The UMW F4 team was not nearly as good as the two S16 teams but you being really good is not enough - you need luck/fortune/moment of brilliance and a hot keeper to make it to the 4.

[SKUD]

PN delay (vs continuation) was curious on that one. I felt the 2nd game crew was solid overall .

[Saint of Old]

jknezek, I certainly try to milk numerous Sweet 16s and a couple of Elite 8s as far as I can, but from my vantage point the gulf between the Elite 8 and making a F4 is huge. Would be curious to hear Hop92's take here. The F4 is its own breakthrough. No one cares that you lost the Elite 8 in PKs or on a 109th minute fluky, defensive flub.

For me the multiple F4s are more impressive than one title...and imo much harder to achieve.

As someone who lost the elite 8 (to Williams) at home in penalties, yes you are right. That was an amazing team we had that was technically undefeated that season, but no one really remembers besides the men you battled with.

Final 4 is a different animal.
A bigger deal.

What Final 4 and Elite 8 losses do though is get a team pissed enough to come back with even more potent venom for a title run.
Richard Stocton boys did this after their finL 4 loss and became a Championship team not long after.

Amherst is in a strange position of being a champion but also failing to climb the hill several years.
Many programs have 1 title... when you get that second star is when you are in that next level company of Wheaton/Messiah/Tufts.
This is what is at stake for both finalists this weekend.